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Thread: Just in case - Open Carry - Kirkland Starbucks

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    Regular Member sigfan's Avatar
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    Good luck, and let us know!
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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    I don't believe in that many coincidences, so I don't think you were being paranoid.
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    • • • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Faciémus!• • •

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    OK so maybe that last cop wasn't after you at all, and just searching/proceeding/responding to an *actual* crime, but the rest of them!

    Sounds like that Starbucks didn't get the memo. Not to mention the cops.

    A visibly armed person hanging around a store right at closing time might be enough to warrant contact of some sort, but not the whole "tacticool" routine. You already save Starbux your money, did someone on the crew honestly think you were going to steal it back? Especially if you paid with plastic!
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Perhaps they're just upset that you beat the charge and they're harrassing you. As long as they don't stop you, there's really very little you can do. Ater all, they have a right to drive where they please, and they will just deny it. I can see why you would be hyper vigilant after being stopped and charged. ( I don't know the details of your incident.) If you call headquarters you are just giving them the satisfaction of them knowing that they are getting to you. I would ignore it unless it continues indefinitely, at which time they would get a letter from me stating they can stop the harrassment or I will contact my attorney.
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    Rather than asking them outright, why not start by requesting copies of the 911 logs for the time in question. That should tell you if they were called to Starbucks. If they were, you might then make an appointment with someone at the station and ask them why you are being followed. Might not hurt to have your lawyer present when you do, just to keep them honest.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heresolong View Post
    Rather than asking them outright, why not start by requesting copies of the 911 logs for the time in question. That should tell you if they were called to Starbucks. If they were, you might then make an appointment with someone at the station and ask them why you are being followed. Might not hurt to have your lawyer present when you do, just to keep them honest.
    This.

    I have had similar here in Bellingham. The police don't like being on the wrong/loosing side of the stick, and they might be power tripping letting you know they are there watching you.

    One time I got followed on to the freeway by Mall and followed off the freeway by McDonalds Iowa, so I started taking a meandering senseless course following all traffic laws carefully until they finally realized what I was doing and left.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Sounds like all that happened is "You Got Looked Over" and then were left alone. At midnight, and closing time, if you were the last customer in the place, you might have gotten the "once over" anywhere in the country if you were open carrying.

    You might take a close look your actions at that time of night. Some might say that sitting alone by the back entrance might be "suspicious" (although it's my preferred place to sit during the daytime) as well as your driving below the speed limit on a main arterial. That's one of the "tell-tales" that LEO's look for when trolling for drunks late at night.

    If your activities are totally legal, just go about your way. Don't be overly paranoid about LEO's that come and go because they will key on any signs of nervousness on your part. THAT will almost certainly cause them to contact you.


    As for all the "cop cars" on 148th, seeing as it is a main arterial in the area, it's only logical that there could be several there if they were responding to anything in the area. The fact that you left them behind when you turned off would indicate to most that they had other interests besides you.
    Last edited by amlevin; 11-27-2010 at 12:04 PM.
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    KPD are a good bunch of guys. Give them a call and ask questions, get answers.

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    Regular Member OrangeIsTrouble's Avatar
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    Why do you have your ID ready?

    Are you ready to obey the uncalled for demands of the police even though you are supposedly being legit in all ways?

    Ask SVG about his "sterile" carry.

    Don't go out by yourself, put yourself where there will be witnesses.

    You already described a bad situation (patrol car in front not recording you). As if that recording would even stick around for long.

    Recorder? Even if it is not a "spy/disguised" one, it will account for something. I use my gopro which is for sports, but picks up great sound even in my pocket. I also have a camera I can use for backup recording.



    Maybe this is all BS, and they just wanted to be friends with you and find out what you are packing. Next time break the ice, by looking at them and sticking out your tongue, then you won't have to play cop and robber games!
    Last edited by OrangeIsTrouble; 11-27-2010 at 06:52 PM.


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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post

    I find it interesting that I feel the least safe in this world when cops are around. Most would say it's because you must be up to no good. It's really that I expect that police are not only up to no good, but will have the political and sentimental coverage to do as they please.
    Your not alone in feeling less safe when LEOs are around. I normally don't hang around any longer than I have to nor do I rush to leave, I just do my business and go.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenIsFaster View Post
    Maybe this is all BS, and they just wanted to be friends with you and find out what you are packing. Next time break the ice, by looking at them and sticking out your tongue, then you won't have to play cop and robber games!
    This is actually a good point. Maybe not sticking your tongue out, but some sort of casual "Hi, hoayadoin?" to the cops in the coffee shop
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Opt-Out Members BigDave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Sounds like all that happened is "You Got Looked Over" and then were left alone. At midnight, and closing time, if you were the last customer in the place, you might have gotten the "once over" anywhere in the country if you were open carrying.

    You might take a close look your actions at that time of night. Some might say that sitting alone by the back entrance might be "suspicious" (although it's my preferred place to sit during the daytime) as well as your driving below the speed limit on a main arterial. That's one of the "tell-tales" that LEO's look for when trolling for drunks late at night.

    If your activities are totally legal, just go about your way. Don't be overly paranoid about LEO's that come and go because they will key on any signs of nervousness on your part. THAT will almost certainly cause them to contact you.


    As for all the "cop cars" on 148th, seeing as it is a main arterial in the area, it's only logical that there could be several there if they were responding to anything in the area. The fact that you left them behind when you turned off would indicate to most that they had other interests besides you.
    Nice assessment, sigfan along with your recent interaction with the Local PD I am sure there is some warranted paranoia do to the time being Midnight (for those who thought it was noon) closing time, lack of customers and likely someone other then employees or a new one made the call.

    Keep in mind, time, place, circumstances and I can understand your reluctance of interactions with them but may have been a great way to dismiss misunderstandings.
    Last edited by BigDave; 11-27-2010 at 08:35 PM.
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Oh by the way don't smile at the cops, they will consider it suspicious behavior and in the last report I requested called it a "bizzarre grin". You can't win for trying.

    P.S. I agree with NavyLT they got the memo everybody knows about it, they are trying to "show force" and intimidate, let him know they are watching him.

    This happens to me here I don't post everything, but the cops here do the same.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 11-28-2010 at 10:55 AM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I was going to ask about the ID/CPL concern as well. Now it makes sense. In response to the recent cases that have not gone our way, I have decided I will take into account all the circumstances during an encounter as to whether I will willingly waive my 4th amendment rights or not. Eating dinner in a restaurant at 6:00pm - no way. Doing something at a 7-11 at 11:00pm - yeah, I'll probably provide ID.
    “ The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. ”

    Not only have some recent cases "not gone our way" I'm sure that in the future Courts will notice that term "unreasonable" and find that there are times, places, and circumstances, where requesting ID does not rise to that level.

    A wise decision 'LT' and one that should be considered by a few more here.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post
    This is something I struggle with constantly. I grew up in a town outside of Pittsburgh where the police were not trustworthy, to put it nicely.
    Which town? My mum grew up in Canonsburg which, to put it nicely, is no longer a particularly nice town. I visited a couple summers ago to put some flowers on my grandparents' graves and with an eye towards seeing if I might want to move out that direction. Not so impressed.

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    Regular Member Metalhead47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post
    See my previous post. There is absolutely no way I would approach the police while carrying -- or likely in any other situation -- unless I absolutely had to.
    You would't necessarily have to "approach" them, I was thinking along the lines of smile & nod as you're walking towards the door, maybe make a friendly comment about the weather, something to deescalate the situation. This is where I do think you cross into paranoia, although based on your other statements I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Myself, I've yet to have a negative encounter with the police, even when I was in the wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I have to disagree with you Metalhead. I think the cops DID get the memo! Seems like they KNEW they had NO basis whatsoever to initiate contact with a person who was breaking no laws and they had no RAS to believe he was, he had, or he was about to. Who gives a darn if they show up and observe? Yes, it's unnerving to be under observation, but I would rather they didn't talk to me.
    Actually I was referring to the Starbucks employees not getting the memo, the one where Starbucks doesn't want OCers harassed. I think the police responds was COMPLETELY overblown, but given the circumstances I think an officer or two showing up to observe for a moment, perhaps initiate a voluntary conversation (same as I suggested the OP do), would not have been unreasonable.
    It is very wise to not take a watermelon lightly.

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    You would't necessarily have to "approach" them, I was thinking along the lines of smile & nod as you're walking towards the door, maybe make a friendly comment about the weather, something to deescalate the situation.
    What situation needs to be "de-escalated"? If they haven't approached you, there is no "situation".

    Go ahead and nod or make a friendly comment if that's what you do with everyone else. Otherwise I wouldn't go out of my way to make any special consideration. Ever consider that officers in uniform would like to just enjoy their coffee in peace? I've sat drinking coffee with officers while "riding along" and it was almost impossible to carry on a conversation with everyone passing by "just making friendly".

    Just go about your business and RELAX! They will too.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    I was going to ask about the ID/CPL concern as well. Now it makes sense. In response to the recent cases that have not gone our way, I have decided I will take into account all the circumstances during an encounter as to whether I will willingly waive my 4th amendment rights or not. Eating dinner in a restaurant at 6:00pm - no way. Doing something at a 7-11 at 11:00pm - yeah, I'll probably provide ID.
    So if you won a new gun at say 2pm you wouldn't provide a CPL, but say you won a new gun at 11pm you would?

    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metalhead47 View Post
    This is actually a good point. Maybe not sticking your tongue out, but some sort of casual "Hi, hoayadoin?" to the cops in the coffee shop
    Can I get a phonetic pronunciation of this pls?
    "And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by devildoc5 View Post
    Can I get a phonetic pronunciation of this pls?
    "How are ya doin'" is what it looks like to me

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    Regular Member FMCDH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sigfan View Post
    Went to the same Starbucks last night. Carried my P239 with IWB instead of my P226 with OWB. Police still showed up in the lobby, ordered coffee, glanced around a bit, spotted me, then left.
    Hey sigfan, I'm just down the hill from Kirkland and would be happy to join you for a coffee stop from time to time. We can both wear our 226s and talk Sig. :-)

    I don't OC much in the winter, but have no problem doing so if it makes sense for the situation. (such as sitting in a heated building drinking something hot, yea)

    PM me.

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