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Thread: Open Carry Experience at Sheriff's Office

  1. #1
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    Open Carry Experience at Sheriff's Office

    I originally wasn't going to share until later, but I feel that it is pertinent given the DMV thread that I posted on November 23.

    On November 24, the day after I visited the DMV, I went to the Sheriff's office to submit an application for a concealed firearm permit.

    Long story short I was detained for about an hour. The first deputy I talked to seemed to agree with me on 202.3673 but then other deputies arrived who didn't have the slightest clue about the wording of 202.3673. A few more deputies came, including a Lieutenant, and they talked for a while behind the room. They read 202.3673 and it seems the Lieutenant and some others somehow came to the conclusion I was wrong and near the end gave me the option of being arrested or returning my firearm to my vehicle. I initially opted to be arrested, which resulted in a transition from being physically restrained to being cuffed with my holster taken off my belt. The Lieutenant very briefly reentered the discussion in the other room and then came back and gave me the option once more, promising to contact the District Attorney and get back to me on 202.3673, saying they will change their policy depending on what the DA says, and that it will take a few weeks.

    I imagine many are going to disagree with my decisions, but I compromised and accepted the offer not be booked. I was willing to be booked at first, but for various reasons I came to the conclusion that being arrested wasn't the most convenient decision for me at the time. I have no idea how they planned on prosecuting me for violating 202.3673 when I was neither a permittee nor carrying a concealed firearm, which is what 202.3673 prohibits beyond their sign.

    If I don't hear back from them after a few weeks and if they don't seem to be making any progress... my finals will be over by then.

    I may post a more detailed description of the dialog and sequence of events later.
    Last edited by Felid`Maximus; 11-27-2010 at 01:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Being booked, or not, shouldn't have any bearing on whether or not you were 'seized' under the language of the Fourth Amendment. If you were held for an hour or a year and there was no 'paperwork' it would not change the fact that you were held. An open records request would certainly signal that you intended to pursue the matter further and (with an intelligent department) cause their actions and procedures to be self-examined.

  3. #3
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    Or they were JUST seeing how far they could push their bluff on you.

    But, I wasn't there! You where!

    From what you describe--- did they even do any paperwork about the incident since at the end they decided to UN-ARREST YOU?
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 11-27-2010 at 06:25 PM.

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    hats off to you sir

    you're braver than I am.
    As soon as I am working again I'm buying you the beverage of your choice!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrsjhnsn View Post
    you're braver than I am.
    As soon as I am working again I'm buying you the beverage of your choice!
    You're the man!!!! I'll buy the second round of drinks!!!!!!

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    NOT getting arrested is a Good Thing. Even if there is NO CASE EVER FILED, that arrest record can come back and bite you later. It will show up in any background check, and list you as a dangerous person (firearms arrest) -- under a future round of lawmaking, it could result in your being designated a prohibited possessor, in the same way misdemeanors from years past have screwed up people's lives because of ex post facto penalties imposed for them.

    In fact, an arrest record on firearms charges can keep you from being allowed to cross into Canada!

    This is the real disaster of creeping laws, the fact that it is becoming impossible to avoid being penalized for things which need no penalty.

  7. #7
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    Agreed! No fault for not getting yourself arrested!

    The good folks in New Hampshire OC into their local police stations all the time. My favorite is when they go to complain, while OC.

    I have OC'd into the Internal Affairs office here in Vegas. They even sat and interviewed me for over an hour inside one of their conference rooms, while I'm OC the whole time. They mentioned it and said they're OK with it. Apparently not since they posted the door after I left :-)

    But I have returned, and entered the building OC, even with the door posted. It was never mentioned, so I never had to debate with anyone whether NRS 202.3673 meant what it says or there is some hidden meaning in the text.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    Indeed an arrest, even if it doesn't result in charges being filed or a conviction can jeopardize a security clearance as well. This happened to me in the army. I had just been assigned to my first duty station right out of school and a CID investigator came to question me for an undocumented arrest. as it turns out, a charge for which you may be arrested or released on your own recognizances at the citing officers discretion will still show as an arrest even if you were not. Because I believed it was only a citation for a simple misdemeanor and I wasn't arrested, I didn't list it at as arrest and this caused a discrepancy that put me under the lamp for about 6-7 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timf343 View Post
    I have OC'd into the Internal Affairs office here in Vegas. They even sat and interviewed me for over an hour inside one of their conference rooms, while I'm OC the whole time. They mentioned it and said they're OK with it. Apparently not since they posted the door after I left :-)
    Don't confuse the opinion of officers with the policy of the department.

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    The point is that the policy of the department is irrelevant. State law does not give the police department or any other agency or subdivision of the county or city to create laws or regulations related to possession of firearms.

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    NRS 202.3673 Permittee Authorized to Carry Concealed Firearm while on Premises of Public Building; Exceptions; Penalty.
    1. Except as otherwise provided in subsections 2 and 3, a Permittee may Carry a Concealed Firearm while the Permittee is on the Premises of any Public Building.
    3. A Permittee shall not Carry a Concealed Firearm while the Permittee is on the Premises of:
    (b) A Public Building that has a Metal Detector at each Public Entrance or a Sign Posted at each Public Entrance Indicating that no Firearms are Allowed in the Building...
    5. A Person who Violates Subsection..., 3..., is Guilty of a Misdemeanor.
    6. As used in this section:
    (b) 'Public building' means any Building or Office Space Occupied by:
    (2) The Federal Government, the State of Nevada or any County, City, School District or other Political Subdivision of the State of Nevada and Used for any Public Purpose.
    7. If only part of the Building is Occupied by an Entity Described in this Subsection, the Term means only that Portion of the Building which is so Occupied.
    (Added to NRS by 1995, 2725; A 1997, 63; 1999, 2767; 2007, 1914)

    Open Carry while on the Premises of a Public Building, except: Schools, Day Cares, or Nevada Institutions of Higher Learning; to Avoid the Charge of NRS 202.3673(5).

    OPEN CARRY DOES NOT APPLY TO NRS 202.3673(3)!

    When Confronted why you Open Carry a Firearm in a Public Building that is Posted or with a Metal Detector, just tell The Government and say: '... [G]ood thing it is NOT Concealed, huh?!'
    Also say: '... NRS 202.2673(3) ONLY Prohibits Concealed Carry, NOT Open Carry!'
    If 'They' say anything, simply ask them to SHOW you where NRS 202.3673 says anything about Open Carry. When 'They' can not find anything in NRS 202.3673 about Open Carry NOT being Prohibited, much to 'Their' Dismay, just simply say: '... I am following Nevada Law by NOT bringing a Concealed Firearm in a Public Building in accordance with NRS 202.3673. Following NEVADA LAW is VERY Important to me, so I will be Open Carring Today. Thank you for Assisting me though!'
    Last edited by aadvark; 11-29-2010 at 02:24 PM.

  12. #12
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    physically restrained to being cuffed with my holster taken off my belt.
    gave me the option of being arrested or returning my firearm to my vehicle.
    Go back and file a criminal complaint against your attackers. Do not file an internal complaint. You might want to wait until after your CCW permit comes in, if they give you one at all.

    NRS 200.460 False imprisonment
    1. False imprisonment is an unlawful violation of the personal liberty of another, and consists in confinement or detention without sufficient legal authority.

    NRS 200.380 Robbery
    1. Robbery is the unlawful taking of personal property from the person of another, or in the person’s presence, against his or her will, by means of force or violence or fear of injury, immediate or future, to his or her person or property, or the person or property of a member of his or her family, or of anyone in his or her company at the time of the robbery.

    NRS 207.190 Coercion.
    1. It is unlawful for a person, with the intent to compel another to do or abstain from doing an act which the other person has a right to do or abstain from doing

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    Quote Originally Posted by timf343 View Post
    The point is that the policy of the department is irrelevant. State law does not give the police department or any other agency or subdivision of the county or city to create laws or regulations related to possession of firearms.
    Agreed -- but it should be noted that there is the LAW, and there is WHAT HAPPENS, and they are not always the same.

    If a cop is okay with you OC or CC, but the agency has a problem with it, the NEXT cop may express that displeasure by finding something else to push you around over. When the agency is in favor, the badge-heavy cop will be less likely to give you any reason to complain (for that matter, he is less likely to be with that agency long, there are plenty of others where he will be more comfortable).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVC View Post
    NOT getting arrested is a Good Thing. Even if there is NO CASE EVER FILED, that arrest record can come back and bite you later. It will show up in any background check, and list you as a dangerous person (firearms arrest) -- under a future round of lawmaking, it could result in your being designated a prohibited possessor, in the same way misdemeanors from years past have screwed up people's lives because of ex post facto penalties imposed for them.

    In fact, an arrest record on firearms charges can keep you from being allowed to cross into Canada!

    This is the real disaster of creeping laws, the fact that it is becoming impossible to avoid being penalized for things which need no penalty.
    I agree, your right on DVC.
    It would stick on his record and there hard to clear up then.

    Felid Maximus made the right decision not getting arrested.
    But I would follow up on what the DA said about the law.
    I would then complain to the DA with the treatment you received by the LEO's.
    After getting your CCW.
    Stay strong and carry-on ! Robin47

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