Black Friday OC, Walmart & Target

Hi all,

I'm from Oregon, and I do have an Oregon CHL, but I don't have a Washington CPL.
While I am very familiar with Oregon's laws, not so much with Washington's (I did review the WA pamphlet).

On Black Friday, I drove up to Longview, WA to do some shopping with my girls (13 & 8 yrs old) in the afternoon. There is no way I would brave the crowds in the morning even armed, without a flack vest & helmet.

Anyway, I OC in Oregon with my Beretta in a retention Serpa, drove up highway 30, stopped before crossing into Washington to unload and store my sidearm in the glove compartment (locked), ammo in the mag in my pocket. Went across the bridge into Washington and went to Walmart (finding that they had moved since the last time I was there).

So, we went to Target first. After parking I retrieved my pistol, but I wasn't sure if Washington had "unloaded" OC exceptions to the preemption like some Oregon cities, so to play it safe I carried UOC in Target, spent about an hour and bought a few items. I had no problems, no encounters, just a few looks, but no "dirty" looks.

Re-secured unloaded in the locked glove compartment and tracked down Walmart near Home Depot. Same thing, carried UOC for about an hour in Walmart. Again, no problems at all.

Re-secured again and headed home. After crossing the bridge into Oregon, stopped and retrieved my sidearm, loaded it, and carried it in the holster during the drive back.

So... did I follow all the laws in Washington or did I miss something? Can I OC loaded in Longview? Did I secure it correctly in my vehicle while driving in Washington? I'm open to comments & corrections.

So for an afternoon of shopping I had to handle my weapon outside of the holster 6 times counting 1 unload & 1 reload. Guess I'm gonna have to get a Washington CPL. Sure would be nice when the 2A is followed by all states equally and all the carry rules are uniform, luckily I don't travel into WA much.

Anyone else OC during Black Friday, and if so, how did it go?

You did fine.

You are allowed to OC loaded in this state, you just cannot while in a vehicle. That includes ferries, busses, cars, etc. When in the vehicle, you cannot have the firearm loaded or concealed on your person UNLESS you have a CPL. When you got back in your vehicle, all you really needed to do was unload your gun and place it in the open. You could have even just hit the mag release and set the magazine next to you while driving and still have your gun holstered like normal, as long as there wasn't 1 in the chamber.

So your loaded mag can be literally right next to your gun, and you're still within the law?

Aaron1124 said:

So your loaded mag can be literally right next to your gun, and you're still within the law?

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As long as there are no bullets in the gun and the magazine is not in the gun, yes.

xxx.jakk.xxx said:

As long as there are no bullets in the gun and the magazine is not in the gun, yes.

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Up to AND including the mag (or gun) being duck-taped to your forehead. Perfectly legal.

xxx.jakk.xxx said:

You did fine.

You are allowed to OC loaded in this state, you just cannot while in a vehicle. That includes ferries, busses, cars, etc. When in the vehicle, you cannot have the firearm loaded or concealed on your person UNLESS you have a CPL. When you got back in your vehicle, all you really needed to do was unload your gun and place it in the open. You could have even just hit the mag release and set the magazine next to you while driving and still have your gun holstered like normal, as long as there wasn't 1 in the chamber.

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Correction to this: it does not include ferries if you are just on the ferry and not in a car - the ferries are considered part of the highway system.

Next time, carry loaded, lol. This isn't Kalifornia.

Tawnos said:

Correction to this: it does not include ferries if you are just on the ferry and not in a car - the ferries are considered part of the highway system.

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..and the ferry is not a 'vehicle' that rides on that 'highway'?

Tawnos said:

Correction to this: it does not include ferries if you are just on the ferry and not in a car - the ferries are considered part of the highway system.

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I have always seen the ferries as a Motor Vehicle. I have never seen anything that excludes them from this rule. Do you have anything that says that it isn't a motor vehicle? I'd rather err on the side of caution until I see something that proves that it is or isn't considered a motor vehicle.

TechnoWeenie said:

..and the ferry is not a 'vehicle' that rides on that 'highway'?

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No, it's not. The ferry is the highway, as the cars travel on it, just like they travel on a road.

Tho in all honesty, it probably would take a court case to get a firm legal standing on the matter.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=2618&year=1994

This is the bill where all ferries were added to the state highway system. For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Route_339_(Washington)

xxx.jakk.xxx said:

I have always seen the ferries as a Motor Vehicle. I have never seen anything that excludes them from this rule. Do you have anything that says that it isn't a motor vehicle? I'd rather err on the side of caution until I see something that proves that it is or isn't considered a motor vehicle.

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Metalhead47 said:

No, it's not. The ferry is the highway, as the cars travel on it, just like they travel on a road.

Tho in all honesty, it probably would take a court case to get a firm legal standing on the matter.

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I love it when I get to watch people try and "pick fly poop out a bowl of pepper".

Since when does a marine vessel become a motor vehicle?

Tawnos said:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?bill=2618&year=1994

This is the bill where all ferries were added to the state highway system. For example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Route_339_(Washington)

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Actually, if you read the bill, it added the ferry routes to the state highway system. I will continue to consider the ferries themselves as vehicles that travel upon those routes, just as my truck travels on the other highways.

NavyLT said:

FOPA is 18 USC 926a and is meant to offer protection in gun restrictive states such as New York.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/usc_sec_18_00000926---A000-.html

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Of course "meant" is the operative word. NY state routinely charges people for transporting firearms through the state, even when appropriately stored. I believe there is currently a lawsuit pending.

NavyLT said:

RCW 47.60.017
State ferry system a public mass transportation system.
The legislature finds and declares that the state ferry system is a public mass transportation system.

Can you carry a loaded handgun on a mass transportation system without a CPL?

My interpretation would be that the ferry ROUTE is part of the highway system, and the ferry itself is a public mass transportation VEHICLE that travels on that route. How can you have a public mass transportation system without vehicles to carry the public mass?

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Problem, under http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=47.17.080&full=true
it says "From the state ferry terminal at Port Townsend via the state ferry system northeasterly to the state ferry terminal at Keystone; also"

The highway is considered as being "via the ferry system" - wherever the ferry goes, so the highway is. I'd love legal clarification, because it seems the law is trying to have it both ways.

Edit: see this old thread: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...n-State-Ferries/page2&highlight=ferry+highway

Just use .060

just be going hiking and using the Ferry to get there and you fall under the exception in .060.

NavyLT said:

Then why is "ferry" not included in the definition of highway?

RCW 47.04.010
Definitions.

The following words and phrases, wherever used in this title, shall have the meaning as in this section ascribed to them, unless where used the context thereof shall clearly indicate to the contrary or unless otherwise defined in the chapter of which they are a part:



If a ferry was a highway wouldn't the definition be:
"Highway." Every way, lane, road, street, boulevard, and every way or place or ferry....

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Except it is. The part of the ferry you drive upon is a road.

Under 47.04.020, you get "All public highways in the state of Washington, or portions thereof, outside incorporated cities and towns shall be divided and classified as state highways and county roads. All state highways and branches thereof shall be established by the legislature of the state of Washington by appropriate general location and termini. Any prior distinctions between highways as primary or secondary are hereby abolished. All powers granted to, or duties imposed upon, the department with regard to either primary or secondary state highways shall be construed to relate to all state highways. Whenever these terms are used, either jointly or independently, each shall be construed to include all state highways. All public highways in the state of Washington, or portions thereof, outside incorporated cities and towns, not established as state highways, are hereby declared to be county roads."

Because the state legislature set up the ferry system as part of the highway, and the part of the ferry you drive onto is a road, you are on "the highway" when on a ferry. Dave Workman's guide to gun rights & such says pretty much the same.

And when I walk on the ferry and never walk on the section that the cars go on, but only the walkway to the passenger area....am I on the road?

gogodawgs said:

And when I walk on the ferry and never walk on the section that the cars go on, but only the walkway to the passenger area....am I on the road?

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From what I have read in Dave Workman's book, the ferry system is considered part of the highway system. Why would it matter if you drove on the "highway" or walked?