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Thread: Wikileaks released the embassy cables

  1. #1
    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Wikileaks released the embassy cables

    http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/classification/3_0.html

    This is a link to the classified section of their cable viewer.

    Pretty interesting stuff. It gives a lot of insight on the state of the international community.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangShih View Post
    http://cablegate.wikileaks.org/classification/3_0.html

    This is a link to the classified section of their cable viewer.

    Pretty interesting stuff. It gives a lot of insight on the state of the international community.
    Bad Link

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    I tried to load all of the files so that I could search through them...I think they are being blocked, probably by the government.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    I tried to load all of the files so that I could search through them...I think they are being blocked, probably by the government.
    Which most documents should be, some documents do show our government crossing the line yet releasing this info is going to get people killed. Astrange is not a U.S. citizen. But also, someone needs to tally up the number of deaths of innocent civilians which can be directly attributed to his illegal release of classified information obtained illegally.


    This is called espionage, clear and simple.
    The 21 (now 22) year old twit has rightfully been put in solitary confinement until his eventual court martial. As for Assange, everyone knows how he would be handled back in the good ol’ days of not so long ago. You’d basically never hear from him again. But in today’s world that might do more harm than good … though if he was handled before these several drops were made he wouldn’t have been this famous and hard to remove.

    He’s a hostile spy that puts real lives in danger, risks regional wars unrelated to the US (civil war in Pakistan, Saudis vs. Iran, etc.), and puts US interests in danger.

    It’s just a shame that one 22 year old and one Australian have so much damn capacity to do so much harm utterly unmolested.
    Last edited by zack991; 12-01-2010 at 02:41 AM.

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    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    Or we could do it the easy way: kidnap this effeminate albino twit and turn him over to the families of some Afghan citizens and soldiers who are now headless or shot because Astrange decided to expose them for his own personal gratification.

    This is called espionage, clear and simple.

    He puts US interests in danger.
    Is he really effeminate?...he doesn't appear to be an albino. I think the headless or shot people is a bit over the top...this early.

    ***OK, he, ummm, received classified documents. Big problem!***

    I wonder what the legal liability is for people to try and download the stuff that is posted.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 11-30-2010 at 02:15 AM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    Which most documents should be, some documents do show our government crossing the line yet releasing this info is going to get people killed. Astrange is not a U.S. citizen. But also, someone needs to tally up the number of deaths of innocent civilians which can be directly attributed to his illegal release of classified information obtained illegally.

    Then people can revisit their squishy concerns about the scary “terrorist” label. Or we could do it the easy way: kidnap this effeminate albino twit and turn him over to the families of some Afghan citizens and soldiers who are now headless or shot because Astrange decided to expose them for his own personal gratification.

    This is called espionage, clear and simple.
    The 21 (now 22) year old twit has rightfully been put in solitary confinement until his eventual court martial. As for Assange, everyone knows how he would be handled back in the good ol’ days of not so long ago. You’d basically never hear from him again. But in today’s world that might do more harm than good … though if he was handled before these several drops were made he wouldn’t have been this famous and hard to remove.

    He’s a hostile spy that puts real lives in danger, risks regional wars unrelated to the US (civil war in Pakistan, Saudis vs. Iran, etc.), and puts US interests in danger.

    It’s just a shame that one 22 year old and one Australian have so much damn capacity to do so much harm utterly unmolested.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

  7. #7
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    Which most documents should be, some documents do show our government crossing the line yet releasing this info is going to get people killed. Astrange is not a U.S. citizen. But also, someone needs to tally up the number of deaths of innocent civilians which can be directly attributed to his illegal release of classified information obtained illegally.

    You are treading dangerously close to breaking forum rule #5 (if not in letter, at least in spirit) with that comment.

    Please cite a single instance of an innocent person being killed as a direct result of something that Wikileaks has published.

    We'll wait...

    And you can't include anyone that was killed or injured at the hands of "terrorists" who are in the employ of the US "intelligence community", or are currently working with, for, or under orders, funding, or approval of any US Department, Agency, or Organization...

    Funny thing though, one US citizen (Valerie Plame) who's life WAS put directly in danger because of the public "outing" of classified information (in DIRECT violation of Federal Law) was outed by our illustrious ex-Vice President. Do you feel Mr. Cheney should answer to the same charges you level toward Mr. Assange? Because he is CERTAINLY guilty of the same thing (and much worse...)


    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    As for Assange, everyone knows how he would be handled back in the good ol’ days of not so long ago.
    Oh, you mean like in Austria about 60 years ago?

    OK, now I think we are ALL getting a better understanding of where you are coming from, and what sort of world you REALLY want...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IaFaJrmno
    Last edited by Dreamer; 11-30-2010 at 01:20 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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  8. #8
    Founder's Club Member PrayingForWar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    You are treading dangerously close to breaking forum rule #5 (if not in letter, at least in spirit) with that comment.

    Please cite a single instance of an innocent person being killed as a direct result of something that Wikileaks has published.

    We'll wait...

    And you can't include anyone that was killed or injured at the hands of "terrorists" who are in the employ of the US "intelligence community", or are currently working with, for, or under orders, funding, or approval of any US Department, Agency, or Organization...

    Funny thing though, one US citizen (Valerie Plame) who's life WAS put directly in danger because of the public "outing" of classified information (in DIRECT violation of Federal Law) was outed by our illustrious ex-Vice President. Do you feel Mr. Cheney should answer to the same charges you level toward Mr. Assange? Because he is CERTAINLY guilty of the same thing (and much worse...)




    Oh, you mean like in Austria about 60 years ago?

    OK, now I think we are ALL getting a better understanding of where you are coming from, and what sort of world you REALLY want...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2IaFaJrmno
    Your reactionary defense of a leftist who aggressively seeks to undermine our country is a great illustration of what sort of world you really want.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6UfN-dmFbA

    Coupled with your demonization of the rich, your unfounded conspiracy BS that our enemies are either manufactured or are morally superior to us. That those serving in our intelligence services are all corrupt, our military is drugged out and mindless, and our media is all propaganda when it doesn't serve your interests in laying the blame for terrorism at the feet of those you accuse.

    Lenin referred to people who've been programmed so thoroughly as "useful idiots". However you sir, are not useful at all.
    If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training. You will become a minister of death, PRAYING FOR WAR...

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    Rule 5 applies to citing to authority when stating a rule of law. So the poster did not come close to breaking it, not even in spirit.

    (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Your reactionary defense of a leftist who aggressively seeks to undermine our country is a great illustration of what sort of world you really want.
    Julian Assange is about as "leftist" as Newt Gingrich...

    In fact, they most likely playing for the same NWO neo-con team, and are both hell-bent on the complete eradication of National Sovereignty worldwide, and the concentration of power into the hands of about 5000 families.

    Soros. Rothschilds, Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, Oranje-Nassau, on and on and on...

    We all know who Assange is taking his marching orders from--there is simply no way he is getting this quantity and sort of information from low-level "whistle-blowers". The most recent "leak" and it's explanation defies all logic to anyone who knows even a TINY amount about how computer systems in secure facilities work.

    There is simply NO WAY that an Army Private could waltz into a secure State Department communications facility with a thumb drive and a CD, and start downloading a quarter-million communique's without about a million "red flags" going off. The checks and releases on these systems are so byzantine that to just download ONE such cable would have required a check-off by at least two other people--of only electronically. The bureaucratic timeline required for such an operation would be months. And this "Private" did it in a few hours, and then was allowed to just waltz out the door--thumb drive and CD in hand? Please...

    This "leak" came from the top, not the bottom of the intelligence heap. Assange is a useful plant, being played by his puppet masters for the false hope that he will be spared and someday accepted into the ranks of the anointed for his service.

    He, too, will be discarded as soon as he outlives his usefulness.

    Just like our brave, dedicated veterans have been.

    Just like the few good cops in America have been.

    Just like the few good judges in America have been.

    Just like the people of New Orleans have been.

    Just like most of us will be...


    Quote Originally Posted by PrayingForWar View Post
    Coupled with your demonization of the rich, your unfounded conspiracy BS that our enemies are either manufactured or are morally superior to us. That those serving in our intelligence services are all corrupt, our military is drugged out and mindless, and our media is all propaganda when it doesn't serve your interests in laying the blame for terrorism at the feet of those you accuse.
    It's not the "rich" that I demonize. It is the insatiably covetous, eugenics-obsessed, power-hungry, generationally sociopathic, inbred, self-anointed ruling elites that I talk about. And I don't have to work too hard at demonizing them. What else can I say to make a group of people look bad who have openly admitted that they funded the Nazis and the Communists into power, helped the Nazis build, equip, run, and database the "Final Solution", intentionally mislead the public to start EVERY war in the last century and a half JUST so they could pillage the middle classes and consolidate power, have intentionally given millions of children in Third World countries Polio, Syphilis, cancer, smallpox and weaponized influenza. There's not really anything I can say to make these people look bad, when you read their own writings.

    Turn off your "playing on a loop" CD of "God Bless America" for a few hours, and go to a library and flip through some back issues of "Foreign Affairs". Go back 10 or 20 years. Adn make some notes. Then explain to me how a small journal published by a private business can be nearly 100% correct on every prediction it has made about economics, politics, and even socio-religious issues--for the last 5 decades?

    The game is rigged. Democracy (or in our case, Representative Republicanism) is a sham, and has been for at least half a century in the US--longer in Europe. Voting is no more effective at changing the outcome than cheering for your favorite WWF wrestler--the winners were chosen and the scripts handed out long before you even bought you ticket.

    We don't need "change". Our entire society--culturally, spiritually, economically, sexually, politically, legally--is so fundamentally corrupt and without genuine humanity that it simply cannot be fixed. We need a complete system reboot.

    I'm just suggesting that when the "reboot" comes, it be those of us on the ground who are re-assembling the world. The last thing we want is for the very sociopaths who messed everything up in the first place be given the task of writing the new "source code for reality."

    You're right. We didn't create the Taliban. Everything that Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brzezinski, both Bush's and Henry Kissenger have EVER written that admitted we did must just be "disinformation"...

    And I've been part of the "intelligence community". I've seen how it works from the inside, and although I have never claimed that the ENTIRE system is corrupt, I think it's a pretty safe assertion that it is, by and large, driven more by a desire to preserve the investments and interests of the revolving-door executives and their corporate monopolies on power, force, and control than "national security", and it HAS been that way since the late 1950s.

    Ike tried to warn us...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bqr5...eature=related

    There is no "left" or "right". There is only the ruling elite and everyone else. And YOU are everyone else...

    When you have melanoma in 10 years from exposure to DU, defoliants, and a cocktail of unknown chemical weapons, "immunizations", and poison-laden "food", and you try to get health coverage as a Vet, and you are turned away because they have washed their hands of you, then you can tell me how much you believe in "the cause".

    You, too, have outlived your usefulness to the system. It's just that you haven't figured it out yet...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-02-2010 at 11:03 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  11. #11
    Regular Member ChiangShih's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post

    Ike tried to warn us...
    +1

    Surprisingly to most who would actually bother to research such a topic, Dreamers analysis of things has a robust empirical foundation. On its face it seems a bit paranoid or conspiracy-esque, however, as he said, you can read most of it in the hand writing of the elitists in question.

    As for wikileaks, I think we would agree that this form of espionage can be a bad thing if it wasn't for the blatant misuse of governmental authority. If you've bothered to read these cables, many of them are pointless and without any security significance. One was about the french president Nicolas Sarkozy and how he chased his sons bunny rabbit around the office in the company of a US diplomat. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11883611) This cable was listed as classified. The fact that such useless information is being "classified" under the vast and unregulated authority in favor of national security is a prime example of the misuse of power and the disconnect between the government and its public. Our government and it's agents distrust us (the people). When this happens the government no longer functions for the people; it functions in the interest of self preservation. History shows us that when this occurs there will be a period of adjustment where the government attempts to work parallel, yet separate from its people, then it inevitably turns on them.

    The act of keeping secrets from its people, in some cases, is just another trait of an expansive and abusive government.
    Last edited by ChiangShih; 12-02-2010 at 07:29 AM.
    Tiocfaidh Ar La

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangShih View Post
    The act of keeping secrets from its people, in some cases, is just another trait of an expansive and abusive government.

    President John Fitzgerald Kennedy tried to tell us:

    http://www.jfklibrary.org/Historical...rs04271961.htm

    The very word "secrecy" is repugnant in a free and open society; and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths and to secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed the dangers which are cited to justify it. Even today, there is little value in opposing the threat of a closed society by imitating its arbitrary restrictions. Even today, there is little value in insuring the survival of our nation if our traditions do not survive with it. And there is very grave danger that an announced need for increased security will be seized upon by those anxious to expand its meaning to the very limits of official censorship and concealment.

    In his own voice:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

  13. #13
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Like how Ron Paul said it. Truth should not be treason.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_1...05-503544.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Is he really effeminate?...he doesn't appear to be an albino. I think the headless or shot people is a bit over the top...this early.

    ***OK, he, ummm, received classified documents. Big problem!***

    I wonder what the legal liability is for people to try and download the stuff that is posted.
    got an email today basically saying if I go to the site the govt could prosecute me. I already suspected as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiangShih View Post
    +1

    Surprisingly to most who would actually bother to research such a topic, Dreamers analysis of things has a robust empirical foundation. On its face it seems a bit paranoid or conspiracy-esque, however, as he said, you can read most of it in the hand writing of the elitists in question.

    As for wikileaks, I think we would agree that this form of espionage can be a bad thing if it wasn't for the blatant misuse of governmental authority. If you've bothered to read these cables, many of them are pointless and without any security significance. One was about the french president Nicolas Sarkozy and how he chased his sons bunny rabbit around the office in the company of a US diplomat. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11883611) This cable was listed as classified. The fact that such useless information is being "classified" under the vast and unregulated authority in favor of national security is a prime example of the misuse of power and the disconnect between the government and its public. Our government and it's agents distrust us (the people). When this happens the government no longer functions for the people; it functions in the interest of self preservation. History shows us that when this occurs there will be a period of adjustment where the government attempts to work parallel, yet separate from its people, then it inevitably turns on them.

    The act of keeping secrets from its people, in some cases, is just another trait of an expansive and abusive government.
    those sort of things are not supposed to be classified and even if they are after 7 years it is supposed to be declassified unless the information is still sensitive. DOE is the only agency with a classification system that makes any sense. the general one that is used for intel is as you can see silly at times.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Daylen View Post
    got an email today basically saying if I go to the site the govt could prosecute me. I already suspected as much.
    I'd like to see the government prosecute the millions of Americans visiting the WikiLeaks site, is now being hosted by a advocacy group that lobbies for the freedom of information and protection of privacy on the internet in Switzerland where the site now enjoys diplomatic immunity.
    Last edited by Jack House; 12-03-2010 at 10:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    I'd like to see the government prosecute the millions of Americans visiting the WikiLeaks site, is now being hosted by a advocacy group that lobbies for the freedom of information and protection of privacy on the internet in Switzerland where the site now enjoys diplomatic immunity.
    they won't bother with most people.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    It's called freedom of speech and press no one has done anything illegal.

    The founders did not mean the press to be only those "certified" in disseminating information, or who do it for profit.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    I'd like to see the government prosecute the millions of Americans visiting the WikiLeaks site, is now being hosted by a advocacy group that lobbies for the freedom of information and protection of privacy on the internet in Switzerland where the site now enjoys diplomatic immunity.
    They do all the time for people who visit "kiddie" porn sites and they will find away for people who knowingly visit and charge them. Classified information is sensitive information to which access is restricted by law and or regulation to particular classes of persons. A formal security clearance is required to handle classified documents or access classified data. The U.S. classification system is currently established under Executive Order 13292 and has three levels of classification — Confidential, Secret, and Top Secret. These designations are used in addition to level markings (Confidential, Secret and Top Secret). Information protected by the Atomic Energy Act is protected by law for example and information classified under the Executive Order is protected by Executive privilege.

    So If you all want to take that chance go ahead, I have a Secret clearance with the military and I am not even going anywhere near that site. http://www.fas.org/sgp/bush/eoamend.html ( Executive Order 13292 ) Look how long it took the government to charge the captured terrorists, just because it takes a few years does not mean they wont go after some person and they will make a complete example out of him. They likely will not go after all of those who visit but those they do, I would not want to be any of them.
    Last edited by zack991; 12-05-2010 at 12:09 PM.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Mas49.56's Avatar
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    Yep, my wife was just notified that going to Wikileaks will violate her security clearance. They said reading a news story regarding the leaks is ok. Seems silly, but I guess it's still classified officially.

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    This is a laughable scenario of government enforcement if there was one.

    So, it's ok for the rest of human civilization outside of the United States, to view this content without reprisal, but "common knowledge" as these leaked transmissions have become to the outside world now, we are expected to turn a blind eye to what the rest of the world already knows or face prosecution.

    That's absolutely, hilariously stupid.

    What's done is done, and threatening your constituency for observing documents that may or may not have been legit anyways, is just about as dumb as it gets.
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    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
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    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

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  22. #22
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zack991 View Post
    They do all the time for people who visit "kiddie" porn sites
    Only if they are caught, either by the computer's being seized and searched or because the idiot visited a 'NARC' site set up to catch such individuals. They can not just know what websites you are visiting without directly spying on your internet connection, or seizing the website in question's traffic logs. And they can't subpoena Wikileaks for their logs, Wikileaks is being hosted in Switzerland by members of the Swiss parliament. So unless you're already being investigated for some other crime, they are not even going to know that you are visiting Wikileaks.

    Yatta yatta. Just because it's classified doesn't mean you can't read it. This is not the first time that classified information has been leaked, nor is it the most sensitive information to be leaked. It would, however, be the first time someone got prosecuted for reading the material on Wikileaks if it were to actually happen. Which I very seriously doubt it will. I mean WTF. All this because some random chain letter said that people might get prosecuted for reading it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mas49.56 View Post
    Yep, my wife was just notified that going to Wikileaks will violate her security clearance. They said reading a news story regarding the leaks is ok. Seems silly, but I guess it's still classified officially.
    That's not because there is classified info on Wikileaks, it's because you can submit classified materials through the Wikileaks website. That's like saying you can't go to some meeting where people share secrets they should not but it's ok if you listen to the audio logs.

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