Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Purchase permit issue in Kalamazoo

  1. #1
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987

    Purchase permit issue in Kalamazoo

    My girlfriend went to get her purchase permit earlier today in Kalamazoo. She was told to fill out paperwork with her identifying information so they could do a background check on her. She filled out this paperwork and handed it in. She took the 10 question quiz, which she passed. Then she was told that they were going to do a background check on her and that an officer would contact her by phone in a few days to let her know if she was approved. THEN she could come back and fill out the actual purchase permit.

    I was under the impression that they had to do the instant background check (which they did for me) and issue the permit while the applicant is waiting (which they did for me).

    What gives?
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  2. #2
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by EM87 View Post
    My girlfriend went to get her purchase permit earlier today in Kalamazoo. She was told to fill out paperwork with her identifying information so they could do a background check on her. She filled out this paperwork and handed it in. She took the 10 question quiz, which she passed. Then she was told that they were going to do a background check on her and that an officer would contact her by phone in a few days to let her know if she was approved. THEN she could come back and fill out the actual purchase permit.

    I was under the impression that they had to do the instant background check (which they did for me) and issue the permit while the applicant is waiting (which they did for me).

    What gives?
    It took me 20 minutes in Lansing. Same story with my fiancée. lil_freak has been waiting 3 months or more now.

    I'm not sure what's up with your gf. It definitely isn't normal. Keep us posted.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  3. #3
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845
    It's called control... they are doing this to assert authority... A lein check takes less time than it does for me to log into my gmail account!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  4. #4
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    456
    I have heard of various cities dragging their feet on purchase permits. The best thing if at all possible is to get a CPL and you will never have to deal with these again.

  5. #5
    Regular Member EM87's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    987
    I would love for her to get a CPL. I have mine and it is much easier. How would the little old lady at the desk be trying to assert control? That doesn't seem logical to me.
    "You'll be walking along.. OC.. and you'll feel GREAT. You'll feel FREEEEE like 1776 kind of Free." -cscitney87

  6. #6
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Lawrence, Michigan, United States
    Posts
    3,845
    Quote Originally Posted by EM87 View Post
    I would love for her to get a CPL. I have mine and it is much easier. How would the little old lady at the desk be trying to assert control? That doesn't seem logical to me.
    The little old lady does what Chief Hadley tells her to...
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  7. #7
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    my understanding is that the LE agency has "up to" 5 days to approve or deny a purchase permit. due to the PC age almost all do it within at least 3 days and some do it the same day. when i lived in saint clair shores it took 3 days mainly because they only did purchase permits on tuesdays and thursdays, then it went to just thursdays, now i have no idea since i don't live there anymore! then when i turned 21 i got a CPL and i didn't have to deal with that kind of legal BS. they even stopped charging for the permit for awhile, it was 10, then 5 then 2 then 0, now i believe they charge but i don't know how much,,,,,

    but your particular situation sounds like a pc issue, or if she has a common name then it may have matched and they decided to do a more indepth check. or any of a hundred reasons, FOIA it if that is an option and find out for sure.

    as a for instance....

    i have a very common name, and every now and then i will be held up during a NICS check, the check the dealer does before the transfer of a firearm is transferred to you. my name matched someone who did something/'s naughty.......

    there is a remedy for the NICS check though, theres a process that you can go through that will allow you to bypass the 3 day wait. basically you give them some information, and they give you a number, that you provide on the application for transfer. then dealer gives that number to the person on the phone and your transfer will go through. that is a VERY simplified version but you get the idea, personally i don't care i don't get held up enough for it to be a problem for me but there is a remedy for NICS checks.

    the check they do at the local level is another monster all together. and i have never been held up due to "miss taken" identity but i have been "approved" and "denied" on the same day!

    for instance...........

    i picked up my purchase permit at a local police department who ran my info and handed over the permit it took maybe as long as it takes to type my name into the PC wait for maybe 3 minutes then the officer came out with my permit then we went to the dealer and was told i had to wait 3 days because "a hold" had been put on my transfer. even the dealer and the officer were as dumbfounded as i was! the time of permit issue was 1537 and the time of "hold him" was only a grand total of.......... 15 MINUTES!

    the FFL dealer was literally behind the PD 1 street over, so i walked from PD to FFL with the officer who gave me both the background check and personally handed me the permit. the officer went with me to get some ammo for a new rifle he bought from that dealer. after i was denied he said i was the absolute best criminal he had ever met.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Wyandotte, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    456
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    i have a very common name, and every now and then i will be held up during a NICS check, the check the dealer does before the transfer of a firearm is transferred to you. my name matched someone who did something/'s naughty.......

    there is a remedy for the NICS check though, theres a process that you can go through that will allow you to bypass the 3 day wait. basically you give them some information, and they give you a number, that you provide on the application for transfer. then dealer gives that number to the person on the phone and your transfer will go through. that is a VERY simplified version but you get the idea, personally i don't care i don't get held up enough for it to be a problem for me but there is a remedy for NICS checks.
    If you have a Michigan CPL issued on or after Nov 22, 2005 you are EXEMPT from any NICS check for all firearms. (This is per the ATF) If you have a valid CPL issued after a certain date in 2001 you are exempt from needing a permit to purchase a handgun.
    Last edited by budlight; 11-30-2010 at 10:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    my understanding is that the LE agency has "up to" 5 days to approve or deny a purchase permit.
    Citation please? Last time I read the law it said "shall issue with ... all due diligence and speed" or something nearly identical.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Mulligan's Valley
    Posts
    4,830
    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Citation please? Last time I read the law it said "shall issue with ... all due diligence and speed" or something nearly identical.
    Due speed and diligence IS required. This is illegal, but not really punishable, aside from law suits which will at best yield legal fees and a couple bucks.

    I can PM you links to a secret URL youtube vid from a sting we did against a similarly out of line PD if you want to see how I suggest handling it, as well as the reports we made up.

    Before anything else FOIA their departmental policies on issuing purchase permits. Mandatory waiting periods, and if applicable mandatory paying them to notarize the permits, it's all illegal. Having them either confirming or denying their illegal procedures is great, either way, when you also have it on hidden video, preferably more than 3 times. Worked for us.

    After gathering as much evidence as possible, first ask to speak to a Lieutenant or the chief. If that fails to solve the problem, send the chief a written complaint by certified mail, if desired. (we didn't, he gave us a very cold shoulder) After that, go to the city council and complain. In person or by mail or email is all fine, but make sure you have a detailed, thorough and accurate report with a professional appearance. If they fail to take action, the next step is going to the AG with a formal complaint. The AG's office told me over the phone that they could and would step in if the city council didn't take care of it. But the council did stop the abuse, and that was the end of it.
    Last edited by Michigander; 12-01-2010 at 12:39 AM.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

  11. #11
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    If you have a Michigan CPL issued on or after Nov 22, 2005 you are EXEMPT from any NICS check for all firearms. (This is per the ATF) If you have a valid CPL issued after a certain date in 2001 you are exempt from needing a permit to purchase a handgun.
    i did have a MI CPL, but lived in another state at the time this happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheQ View Post
    Citation please? Last time I read the law it said "shall issue with ... all due diligence and speed" or something nearly identical.
    again it was years ago since it happened and then i believe that the brady law said a department could take as long as 5 days. but the process in actual time only took a short amount actual "investigation" and most LEO's did it in less time. i may have an older copy of the MI gun laws and crime bill, but i probably don't.

    and from a certain point of view "all due diligence and speed" can mean quite diffrent things, to diffrent people.....
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  12. #12
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Lansing, Michigan
    Posts
    3,448
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    and from a certain point of view "all due diligence and speed" can mean quite diffrent things, to diffrent people.....
    exactly! That's why I was wondering where the magic #5 came from.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  13. #13
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    was it the brady law that required a up to 5 day wait before a dealer could transfer a pistol?
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  14. #14
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    666
    Quote Originally Posted by NHCGRPR45 View Post
    was it the brady law that required a up to 5 day wait before a dealer could transfer a pistol?
    Initially the Brady Handgun Violence protection act required a 5 day wait for handgun transfers from a dealer to an individual. This ceased November 30, 1998 when the NICS system came online.

  15. #15
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Chesterfield Township, MI
    Posts
    1,137
    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    Initially the Brady Handgun Violence protection act required a 5 day wait for handgun transfers from a dealer to an individual. This ceased November 30, 1998 when the NICS system came online.

    i knew there was a 5 day wait in the law someplace but it so long ago i forgot precisely when.
    Last edited by NHCGRPR45; 12-03-2010 at 09:24 PM.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •