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Thread: Odd hunting regulation in Southampton Co., VA

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    Regular Member paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Odd hunting regulation in Southampton Co., VA

    While killing time I came across this oddity today. One of several hunting ordinances in effect in Southampton Co., VA. OK many of them are odd, this one just glows more than the others, since it affects non-hunters and isn't obvious if you are a non-hunter. In fact I think with VA's preemption law it is void anyway unless it has protection as a "game" law. It does not mention a game purpose. Hmmm. For four and a half months out of the year it is illegal to have a loaded rifle in your car, even for self defense.

    http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting...ordinances.pdf

    Southampton 3, 8, 19, 41, 42

    19. It is unlawful to transport, possess or carry a loaded rifle in any vehicle on the road from October 1 through February 15.
    http://library1.municode.com/default-test/home.htm
    infobase=12337&doc_action=whatsnew

    Sec. 17-8. Transporting a loaded rifle.

    No person shall transport, possess or carry a loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road or highway during the period beginning each October first and ending February fifteenth of the following year.

    Any person violating this section shall be punished by a fine of not more than one hundred dollars ($100.00).

    (Code 1976, 18-8)

    State law references: Transporting a loaded rifle or shotgun, Code of Virginia, 18.2-287.1.
    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-287.1

    18.2-287.1.

    Repealed by Acts 2004, c. 462.
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    I can't dig up the state statute quickly enough to look it up right now, but as I recall the General Assembly provided localities with the leeway to prohibit the carrying of loaded shotguns and rifles in vehicles. Violation of the statute is an unclassified misdemeanor with a minor fine associated with it. Peter Nap probably knows the statute by heart since I've seen him discuss it here.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    I never heard of the dates before, I did know it is unlaw to carry a loaded rifle/shotgun in your car, if it was legal I was going stick a shotgun in my trunk for traveling(back up gun) I know the law is reallly dumb....
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I can't dig up the state statute quickly enough to look it up right now, but as I recall the General Assembly provided localities with the leeway to prohibit the carrying of loaded shotguns and rifles in vehicles. Violation of the statute is an unclassified misdemeanor with a minor fine associated with it. Peter Nap probably knows the statute by heart since I've seen him discuss it here.
    15.2-1209.1. Counties may regulate carrying of loaded firearms on public highways.
    The governing body of any county is hereby empowered to adopt ordinances making it unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession, for the purpose of hunting, while on any part of a public highway within such county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking; and to provide a penalty for violation of such ordinance not to exceed a fine of $100. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles or for purposes other than hunting, or to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.
    (Code 1950, 18.1-272; 1975, cc. 14, 15, 18.2-287; 2004, c. 462; 2007, c. 203.)



    Looks like it's busted!

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Oops...forgot about this one:

    15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.
    (1976, c. 506, 18.2-287.1; 1977, c. 377; 1989, c. 50; 2004, c. 462.)

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Looks like they need to update their cite to authority then.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    15.2-1209.1. Counties may regulate carrying of loaded firearms on public highways.
    The governing body of any county is hereby empowered to adopt ordinances making it unlawful for any person to carry or have in his possession, for the purpose of hunting, while on any part of a public highway within such county a loaded firearm when such person is not authorized to hunt on the private property on both sides of the highway along which he is standing or walking; and to provide a penalty for violation of such ordinance not to exceed a fine of $100. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons carrying loaded firearms in moving vehicles or for purposes other than hunting, or to persons acting at the time in defense of persons or property.
    (Code 1950, 18.1-272; 1975, cc. 14, 15, 18.2-287; 2004, c. 462; 2007, c. 203.)


    Looks like it's busted!
    Did I read this right?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xdm guy View Post
    Did I read this right?
    Yeah, you did...but read the next one. That needs changing.

    I've heard that some people ignore that law because the chances of being ticketed are slim and the fine is small...but I always obey it
    Note to the Admins. We need a Pinocchio smiley.

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    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.
    )


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    I have read through Virginia's gun laws a few times, and I don't recall ever seeing anything that fully defines the term "loaded firearm." I also just did a search of the VA code, and I didn't get any helpful results. So, does anyone know when exactly a firearm is legally "loaded" in the Commonwealth? Is it when there is a round in the chamber, or does just having a loaded magazine in the firearm make it "loaded?"

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VApatriot View Post
    I have read through Virginia's gun laws a few times, and I don't recall ever seeing anything that fully defines the term "loaded firearm." I also just did a search of the VA code, and I didn't get any helpful results. So, does anyone know when exactly a firearm is legally "loaded" in the Commonwealth? Is it when there is a round in the chamber, or does just having a loaded magazine in the firearm make it "loaded?"
    This has been discussed here at length VP.

    The only explicit definition I've ever run across was for muzzleloaders where they are considered loaded if there is a cap on the nipple for percussion, or priming powder in the pan for a flintlock.

    For cartridge guns it's open to considerable interpenetration.

    The City of Richmond considers it loaded if ammunition touches the gun ....like a side saddle or stock band.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-01-2010 at 11:43 AM.

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    Chance for repeal?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Oops...forgot about this one:

    15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.
    The governing body of any county or city may by ordinance make it unlawful for any person to transport, possess or carry a loaded shotgun or loaded rifle in any vehicle on any public street, road, or highway within such locality. Any violation of such ordinance shall be punishable by a fine of not more than $100. Conservation police officers, sheriffs and all other law-enforcement officers shall enforce the provisions of this section. No ordinance adopted pursuant to this section shall be enforceable unless the governing body adopting such ordinance so notifies the Director of the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries by registered mail prior to May 1 of the year in which such ordinance is to take effect.
    The provisions of this section shall not apply to duly authorized law-enforcement officers or military personnel in the performance of their lawful duties, nor to any person who reasonably believes that a loaded rifle or shotgun is necessary for his personal safety in the course of his employment or business.
    (1976, c. 506, 18.2-287.1; 1977, c. 377; 1989, c. 50; 2004, c. 462.)
    I really have never liked this code section. Why make it unlawful to transport, possess or carry any firearm within a locality? A Virginian should have the right to carry a handgun or any other type of firearm. If certain city folk don't like that, too bad.

    What would be the chances of repealing this section either next Session, or thereafter?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post

    What would be the chances of repealing this section either next Session, or thereafter?
    It's always bad to try to figure odds Repeater.
    An offhand guess would be that it would be difficult to nearly impossible this session (For a number of reasons)

    But with a push from VCDL, it is possible next session.
    The problem I can see is that a compromise would be worked out to allow CHP's to be exempt and I'd be calling Saslaw "Old Buddy" for killing it.

    A better approach would to clean up all the hunting type carry legislation and start from scratch.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Yeah, you did...but read the next one. That needs changing.

    I've heard that some people ignore that law because the chances of being ticketed are slim and the fine is small...but I always obey it
    Note to the Admins. We need a Pinocchio smiley
    How's this one Peter?
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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Really, I do not see why would you want to leave a loaded rifle/shotgun in your car all the time, unless you travel, come to think of it. Rust, and a chance for thiefs. My handgun is good enough, I carry spare magazines. I do not think I will need to pull out a shotgun or sks to defend my life from any gang bangers and/or zombies.

    But I support they change it, after all the 2ND shall not be infringed...
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 12-01-2010 at 10:21 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Really, I do not see why would you want to leave a loaded rifle/shotgun in your car, come to think of it. Rust, and a chance for thiefs. My handgun is good enough, I carry spare magazines. I do not think I will need to pull out a shotgun or ak47 to defend my life from any gang bangers and zombies.
    I look at it like this:

    For me, it's not about needing or even wanting to have a loaded rifle or shotgun in my car or truck. In fact, I don't think that I would ever, knowingly, place a loaded (one in the chamber) long gun in my vehicle. It's about not needing a law against such a thing.

    I imagine that this law is most often applied against individuals who never did, and never were going to do, harm to anyone else, such as hunters or target shooters who didn't fully empty their mags after leaving the field or range. Perhaps a lecture on basic gun safety would be in order for these people, but I don't like the idea of fines or other punishments this "offence."
    Last edited by VApatriot; 12-01-2010 at 10:47 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Really, I do not see why would you want to leave a loaded rifle/shotgun in your car all the time, unless you travel, come to think of it. Rust, and a chance for thiefs. My handgun is good enough, I carry spare magazines. I do not think I will need to pull out a shotgun or sks to defend my life from any gang bangers and/or zombies.

    But I support they change it, after all the 2ND shall not be infringed...
    Since a commute for me is a hundred miles going through Burbs, Cities (including Richmond) and rural areas miles from anything or anybody, I do usually have a rifle and a shotgun in the car or truck.
    I also have permanent handguns for each vehicle. Usually something I wouldn't be broken hearted over if someone stole it (9mm's and .357's)...even on my motorcycle.

    Each car/truck also has a kit with food, space blankets, Wetterling ax, a large first aid kit, tools and spare parts. I've used all of these at times but like the guns, I could have lived without them. The question is, why should I?

    Rust isn't a problem as long as you know how to clean and lube them. The worst thing for a gun is a layer of oil that condensation can get between and not evaporate...
    Anyway, back OT.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-02-2010 at 06:56 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Since a commute for me is a hundred miles going through Burbs, Cities (including Richmond) and rural areas miles from anything or anybody, I do usually have a rifle and a shotgun in the car or truck.
    I also have permanent handguns for each vehicle. Usually something I wouldn't be broken hearted over if someone stole it (9mm's and .357's)...even on my motorcycle.

    Each car/truck also has a kit with food, space blankets, Wetterling ax, a large first aid kit, tools and spare parts. I've used all of these at times but like the guns, I could have lived without them. The question is, why should I?

    Rust isn't a problem as long as you know how to clean and lube them. The worst thing for a gun is a layer of oil that condensation can get between and not evaporate...
    Anyway, back OT.
    In this situation, free travel on our public roadways is something that will probably need to be address by GA - not likely to happen this short session unless someone like Dave Albo has a special reason.
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ng-the-message

    Long term vehicle guns - even tupperware guns have parts that rust, regular maintenance is a must. Know somebody that had one and when they did get around to checking it, the slide was rusted tight and the trigger was locked! Think the window had be left down and it had rained in at some point.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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