Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Amtrak will allow passengers to bring guns on most trains

  1. #1
    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    705

    Amtrak will allow passengers to bring guns on most trains

    "Reversing a near decade-long ban, Amtrak will allow passengers to bring guns on most trains starting next month.

    The change, pushed by gun-rights advocates and ordered by Congress, aligns Amtrak's firearm policy with air travel rules that allow unloaded guns to be stored in locked baggage holds."

    See: http://www.kentucky.com/2010/11/29/1...assengers.html

    or

    http://www.modbee.com/2010/11/30/145...ers-bring.html
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    • • • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Faciémus!• • •

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    It makes transporting guns easier, but still strips us of our right to carry and creates a big, moving defense-free zone. In airports, at least, they make a (poor) effort to make sure no one is armed. On trains, those who follow the law will be unarmed. Those who don't can easily get a gun on board.

    It is a tiny step in the right direction.

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Granite State of Mind
    Posts
    4,510
    It seems to be aimed at long gunners. Seriously, how many people take a hunting trip by train?

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    It makes transporting guns easier, but still strips us of our right to carry and creates a big, moving defense-free zone. In airports, at least, they make a (poor) effort to make sure no one is armed. On trains, those who follow the law will be unarmed. Those who don't can easily get a gun on board.

    It is a tiny step in the right direction.
    not true - it remains NOT a crime under federal law to carry guns on trains, including AMTRAK. AMTRAK takes the position that guns must be checked - but that does not make it a crime to carry on AMTRAK, at least under federal law. Concealed carriers carry often on ALTRAK trains I am told

  5. #5
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    not true - it remains NOT a crime under federal law to carry guns on trains, including AMTRAK. AMTRAK takes the position that guns must be checked - but that does not make it a crime to carry on AMTRAK, at least under federal law. Concealed carriers carry often on ALTRAK trains I am told
    So, what happens when Amtrak detects that a person is carrying?

  6. #6
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    North Chesterfield VA
    Posts
    10,682
    Unloaded firearms must be packed in hard-sided containers, and will be stored in train lockers.

    Amtrak officials said the federally funded train system is retrofitting train cars for gun storage,
    A few thoughts -

    - Are those lockers going to be inside the passenger cars?
    - If not, who is going to guard them?
    - If so, what's the procedure for getting the cases into the lockers? Will there be railside TSA checks and you get walked to the locker?
    - If there are not railside TSA checks what's to stop some terrorist from putting something else inside one of those lockers in the passenger car?
    - No matter what/how they do it, who has the key to the lockers while the train is in motion? And if I do not have the key to my locker how does the holder of the keys sort out any forged claim checks/whatever is used?

    Not only are those probably good questions, they suggest that DHS/TSA have not thought out this exercise yet.

    stay safe.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Roseville
    Posts
    317
    as was reported locally, people already carry guns on trains and there are no real security checks as of now. how they plan to change all of this is anyone's guess.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    as was reported locally, people already carry guns on trains and there are no real security checks as of now. how they plan to change all of this is anyone's guess.
    I just did a lot of googling on this. Several people on different sites cited 27 CFR 178.31 as making carry on an Amtrak train a crime. I read the section, and the way I read it carry is not a crime. Using the train to deliver a firearm to someone would be.

    The Amtrak site itself only addresses firearms in checked and carry-on baggage, not on the person himself. Many folks posted contacts that they purported to have had with various Amtrak officials. Unfortunately, the results of these reported contacts conflicted with each other.

    So, am I reading 27 CFR 178.31 correctly, that it does not prohibit carry? Is there a published policy from Amtrak regarding carry?
    Last edited by eye95; 12-01-2010 at 01:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605
    eye95:

    The answer to your Policy Question is located at:
    http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...=1248542758975

    aadvark

  10. #10
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Fairborn, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    13,063
    Quote Originally Posted by aadvark View Post
    eye95:

    The answer to your Policy Question is located at:
    http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/Conten...=1248542758975

    aadvark
    I had already read that. It deals with firearms in checked baggage. I am asking about carrying a firearm.

    You'd think that, if they do not allow carry, there'd be a statement on their web site to the effect, "Passengers may not carry firearms on Amtrak trains," or something equally plain.

    Does someone know of a plainly stated policy on carry of firearms?

  11. #11
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Roseville
    Posts
    317
    Yeah, it seems this is mostly for transportation of guns(collectors and dealers), not personal carriers. I was a little pissed about how this was repoted(but the media needs their shock and awe to keep the sheeples watching in fear and anticipation).

    Here is the clip I saw: Fox40
    Their facebook page with comments from viewers regarding the new "policy"

    OT - Had a shooting near a school in Sac last night as well. I know most of you won't believe this as its not possible because its not legal, but its the video that auto-loaded after the amtrak story(for me at least).
    Last edited by Coded-Dude; 12-01-2010 at 01:22 PM.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1,605
    If there is nothing Prohibiting such Conduct..., then, it is Safe to assume such Conduct Legal.
    However, Federal Law, Enumerated under TITLE 18 PART I CHAPTER 97 § 1992, states:
    § 1992(7) Commits an Act, Including the USE of a Dangerous Weapon, with the Intent to cause Death or Serious Bodily Injury to any Person who is on Property described in SubParagraph (A) or (B) of Paragraph (4);

    Under Federal Law, the USE of Firearms with such INTENT is what is ILLEGAL, not just having them.
    Under Federal Law 18 U.S.C. 930, Trains, including AMTRACK, do NOT QUALIFY as Federal Facilities, BECAUSE AMTRACK Employees ARE NOT Federal Employees.

    ... [T]hen again..., we ARE talking about The Federal Government here..., [...]
    Last edited by aadvark; 12-01-2010 at 01:56 PM.

  13. #13
    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Elgin, Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,202
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I had already read that. It deals with firearms in checked baggage. I am asking about carrying a firearm.

    You'd think that, if they do not allow carry, there'd be a statement on their web site to the effect, "Passengers may not carry firearms on Amtrak trains," or something equally plain.

    Does someone know of a plainly stated policy on carry of firearms?
    The posted regulations pertain to checked baggage and prohibit firearms in carry-on baggage. They do not address carry on your person.

  14. #14
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    So, what happens when Amtrak detects that a person is carrying?
    When I asked this question they said the person would have to disembark at the next stop. They could not cite any other authority about having a handgun on the train, i.e. no laws or policies they could enforce. This was about 4 years ago.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    University Place, Washington, USA
    Posts
    705
    The "other side" is heard from...

    There are likely to be a lot of people who will feel uncomfortable riding Amtrak now. It is unbelievable that guns will now be allowed – especially considering all the recent heightened security measures being enforced on airlines by the TSA.
    ...
    Ok, so they will be allowed unloaded firearms – but what about ammunition? Will ammunition be allowed in any capacity? Hopefully, it won’t be permitted at all.
    http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.a...81474978744419

    *sigh*

    (I can almost hear them baaaaaahhhing and stampeding already...)

    BTW, I have seen no laws, regulations, or rules that specifically say I cannot legally concealed carry on an AMTRAK train if I have a license. Doesn't mean there isn't one, and certainly doesn't mean that I couldn't get hassled or dropped off at the very next stop if discovered, but... I do ride AMTRAK.
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

    • • • Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Faciémus!• • •

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •