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Thread: Looks like the General Assembly may be getting the message

  1. #1
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Looks like the General Assembly may be getting the message

    This is an interesting prefile.
    That recognizes that a firearm is an essential part of a household like silverware or tools of the trade.

    HB 1422 Homestead exemptions; adds one family firearm, not to exceed $3,000 value, to list of exemptions.
    David B. Albo | all patrons ... notes
    | add to my profiles another bill? Log in LIS Home - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Bills & Resolutions Members Committees Meetings Calendars Communications Minutes Statistics Lobbyist-in-a-Box Summary as introduced:
    Homestead exemptions. Adds one family firearm, not to exceed $3,000 in value, to the list of items that every householder shall be entitled to hold exempt from creditor process. Full text:
    10/25/10 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/12/11 11100502D pdf

    Status:
    10/25/10 House: Prefiled and ordered printed; offered 01/12/11 11100502D
    10/25/10 House: Committee Referral Pending

    Even more amazing is this is coming from up North.
    Last edited by peter nap; 11-30-2010 at 10:44 PM.

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    Very good! I think another state made a similar addition in the past year, but I couldn't tell you which one it was.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I've read that firearms are the only personal property mentioned in the US Constitution. If that is indeed true, then this legislation and general line of thought are long overdue.

    How could a piece of property that is the only thing the Founding Fathers saw fit to guarantee you in writing be deemed anything other than essential?

    In today's "entitlement society", it's interesting to think about where the logical conclusion to this line of thought might end.

    TFred

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Did someone say FREE GUNS?!?

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    Administrator John Pierce's Avatar
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    I love this bill!

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I love this bill!
    Well that's what worries me. Since when have we loved anything from Dave Albo?

    What would be Albo's motivation in this bill other than RE-election? Doesn't he rule from a safe district?

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Well that's what worries me. Since when have we loved anything from Dave Albo?

    What would be Albo's motivation in this bill other than RE-election? Doesn't he rule from a safe district?
    That's why I added
    Even more amazing is this is coming from up North.
    I'd like to know the background too.

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Here is the Delegate's reasoning:

    Quote
    In Bankruptcy you may either use the Federal Exemptions or the State Exemptions.
    In Virginia, we use the State Exemptions.

    "I am not a fan of Bankruptcy. It's legalized stealing...but some people came to me and asked me to add a recent addition to the Federal Exemptions, to Virginia's. That is the Firearm Exemption"

    I am not a gun person so I made it a little stricter. My Bill calls for a family firearm, not just any firearm." It would be something handed down from your Father or Grandfather and not something you just buy."
    There you have it!
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-01-2010 at 02:06 PM.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Here is the Delegate's reasoning:

    Quote

    There you have it!
    Oh good grief, you mean this bill is possibly self-serving?

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    Regular Member USNA69's Avatar
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    Hmmmm .... I can't think of a better way for the gummint to compile a list of gun owners than to pay them to divulge their gun ownership.

    Devilishly simple and quite clever.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Interesting. From the link in the OP, the added line to the list of already exempt items is:

    4b. One family firearm, not to exceed $3,000 in value.

    There is no definition within the bill of "family firearm". I couldn't find any definition in the Code of Virginia.

    Seems simple enough to me to amend the bill in committee to just remove the word "family".

    Seems that self-defense and especially hunting are two completely legitimate firearm needs that a family would have, even if they are in bankruptcy.

    TFred

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    "Family firearm," like "family car," or "family home." One per family, not one per family member. So when the creditors come serving (papers), which do you get to keep, Dad's M1, Mom's Sig, Junior's Bushmaster, or little Sis's Barrett (oops, watch that $3K limit)?

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    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Interesting. From the link in the OP, the added line to the list of already exempt items is:

    4b. One family firearm, not to exceed $3,000 in value.

    There is no definition within the bill of "family firearm". I couldn't find any definition in the Code of Virginia.

    Seems simple enough to me to amend the bill in committee to just remove the word "family".

    Seems that self-defense and especially hunting are two completely legitimate firearm needs that a family would have, even if they are in bankruptcy.

    TFred
    +1

    Where did they pull the $3000 from? ( a dark dark place? ) What if I want to leave my Barrett 50BMG to my kids? If you think about it you should be able to keep one pistol AND one rifle since it is hard to carry a rifle around for self defense and hard to hunt with a pistol.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Here is the Delegate's reasoning:

    Quote

    There you have it!
    So there it is! Definately a need to get some wording changed before it sees the light of day on the floor.

    My reading was along the lines of one firearm for the entire family, as opposed to a firearm for each member of the family eligible to own/posses one.

    It is instructive to see that while Albo believes bankruptcy is "stealing" he was willing to put this forward at the urging of a constituent. Real sense of values there!

    stay safe.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    It's no wonder Mr. Albo thinks bankruptcy filings are tantamount to theft. They are, in fact, stealing money from his portfolio...

    http://www.vpap.org/candidates/profi...5317?year=2009

    He has major investments in Medco Health Systems, a major healthcare company, that provides clinically-driven pharmacy services to hospitals and clinics. Bankruptcies caused by excessive medical costs would definitely impact Mr. Albo's portfolio...

    He also has major assets in several Smith Barney KAUBX Accounts, which has in its distribution several pharmaceutical and health care companies, and MasterCard.

    Also in his portfolio is another SmithBarney instrument known as OGLUVX. This is sa JPMorgan Short Duration Bond, based almost entirely in T-Bills. Anyone who known anything at all abotu JP Morgan should find it mildly ironic that someone who has several tens of thousands of dollars invested with JPM would point fingers at ANYONE for "theft" with regards to financial distress... Glass houses, Mr. Albo, glass houses...

    And this is just a superficial analysis I knocked out in about 10 minutes. I'm sure a more in-depth analysis would turn up even more of the same--heavy investments in Pharma, Health Care, Credit Card companies, large international banking, etc, etc, etc...

    I just find it a little ironic that someone with the attitude that "bankruptcy = theft" would also be heavily invested in businesses that are some of the major causes of bankruptcy among middle-class people, due to corporate malfeasance, criminal negligence, gross disregard for human life and health, and opportunistic overcharging for services.

    Mr. Albo also is a principle partner in a NoVa law firm that specializes in traffic law, while at the same time, supporting large surcharges for felony and misdemeanor level driving convictions in 2007 as a legislator.

    He is also Chairman of the VA State Crime Commission, while his law firm specializes in traffic law, Employment law, and government contracting law...

    Perhaps Mr. Alba would do well to also invest in Anderson Windows company, as a hedge against his own actions...

    Follow the Money folks.

    Dollar signs always point toward the truth...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-02-2010 at 02:34 AM.
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    With any politician, "beware of Greeks bearing gifts."

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    Good morning. First, an introduction: I've been a long time lurker, but decided I could (hopefully) be more useful joining than watching from the side.

    Second, I'm a licensed attorney practicing, among other things, bankruptcy.

    Finally, there is a group of attorneys that is pushing to change Virginia's exemptions laws to allow people to protect more property in the event of a bankruptcy. One of those changes was an unlimited value exemption for any one firearm (no "family firearm" limitation).

    Now, I wasn't directly involved in the drafting/proposing of the bill, nor in the meetings with elected representatives, so I can't speak for either the group or speak to what happened at the meeting. However, based on what the attendees reported, my gut feeling is that once he saw the bill as a whole, he decided to isolate the firearm exemption and submit it as a separate bill. In my opinion, this would water down the gun exemption (reducing its usefulness) while also ensuring that any gun-rights support would not translate into support for the more general exemptions bill.

    Just my two cents based on observation.

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    Regular Member The Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45acpForMe View Post
    +1

    Where did they pull the $3000 from? ( a dark dark place? ) What if I want to leave my Barrett 50BMG to my kids? If you think about it you should be able to keep one pistol AND one rifle since it is hard to carry a rifle around for self defense and hard to hunt with a pistol.
    Why exclude shotguns? In much of Virginia you are prohibited from (Deer, Bear or Turkey) hunting with a rifle. If protecting the ability to hunt is in any way addressed in intent, it should be 1 handgun, 1 rifle and 1 shotgun.
    Last edited by The Wolfhound; 12-02-2010 at 09:57 AM.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyer with a Gun View Post
    Good morning. First, an introduction: I've been a long time lurker, but decided I could (hopefully) be more useful joining than watching from the side.

    Second, I'm a licensed attorney practicing, among other things, bankruptcy.

    .
    Welcome aboard LG - learned council/insight is always appreciated.

    Observing your screen name, I have to ask - have you ever thought about running for public office? Presuming that your personal convictions are consistent with that image.
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  20. #20
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyer with a Gun View Post
    Good morning. First, an introduction: I've been a long time lurker, but decided I could (hopefully) be more useful joining than watching from the side.

    Second, I'm a licensed attorney practicing, among other things, bankruptcy.

    Finally, there is a group of attorneys that is pushing to change Virginia's exemptions laws to allow people to protect more property in the event of a bankruptcy. One of those changes was an unlimited value exemption for any one firearm (no "family firearm" limitation).

    Now, I wasn't directly involved in the drafting/proposing of the bill, nor in the meetings with elected representatives, so I can't speak for either the group or speak to what happened at the meeting. However, based on what the attendees reported, my gut feeling is that once he saw the bill as a whole, he decided to isolate the firearm exemption and submit it as a separate bill. In my opinion, this would water down the gun exemption (reducing its usefulness) while also ensuring that any gun-rights support would not translate into support for the more general exemptions bill.

    Just my two cents based on observation.
    Welcome to the forum!

    Am I reading it correctly that Albo was originally involved with your group?

    This was the only prefiled bill I saw on the subject. Will your group introduce another?

  21. #21
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wolfhound View Post
    Why exclude shotguns? In much of Virginia you are prohibited from (Deer, Bear or Turkey) hunting with a rifle. If protecting the ability to hunt is in any way addressed in intent, it should be 1 handgun, 1 rifle and 1 shotgun.
    You got me there. I was starting from their bad premise that you should only be able to keep one. I tried to think of which "one" I would keep and had trouble. Heck I vote for "excepting" all guns from bankruptcy!

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    Thanks for the welcome!

    45ACPforMe: I suspect you're right as to how they came up with the $3k. What I find curious is that it's more than the amount allowed for clothing ($1k) or a vehicle ($2k). Link. There is a separate Homestead exemption for up to $5k that we now use for firearms.

    Grapeshot: Interesting that you mention public office. I actually became managing and lead partner in our firm (4 attorneys) so that the founder could prepare a run for public office. I've been making good use of my time educating him on gun rights issues and even taking him to the range with me. I also carry in the office, so I'm hopefully creating a staff of believers as well.

    Peter Nap: This group is really a loose knit group of debtor's attorneys. The bill was drafted and discussed on an online group, and then they went looking for a sponsor. Albo was approached, but declined.

    Once we get a sponsor, it will be introduced with the broader provision (one handgun, rifle or shotgun; no limit on value). This exemption, just like most other exemptions, is per householder. So, if one spouse is filing for bankruptcy, and the guns belong to the other, there is no need to list them as property. If both spouses are filing, the proposed legislation would protect one firearm per filer and we would have to use the Homestead exemption (§34-4) for the rest.

    Since this bill will expand property exemptions, you can imagine it will face heavy opposition from the banking and lending industry. This is why I think Albo split the firearm provision from it.

  23. #23
    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Of course, changing the homestead exemption from $5,000 to something more realistic, like $100,000, would be a plus. I remember when one could buy a house in Virginia for five thousand dollars, but that was a long time ago.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

  24. #24
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    Of course, changing the homestead exemption from $5,000 to something more realistic, like $100,000, would be a plus. I remember when one could buy a house in Virginia for five thousand dollars, but that was a long time ago.
    Not that long ago, thank you!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Not that long ago, thank you!
    Grape, are you saying you remember buying houses for $5,000??


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