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Third party editing of posts...

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
No, it does not "ring hollow." It was a simple statement of what I have (or have not) seen for myself. I made no reference to any specific policy of this website, merely a statement of my observations.

I fully understand #2 up there. I also have not seen "non-rule-breaking post moderation." If I HAD seen some, I would mention it.

That you have not seen any, was won of my points. The practice of deleting posts without tags leaves no evidence to be seen. These deletions are still a form of moderation.

My other point was that a member cannot break Rule #2, only be subjected to it. You seemed to be implying that any moderation of a post was the result of breaking the rules, if I am mistaken about your implication I apologize. It is easy to mis-interpret each others intents on a forum, just as you may or may not have mis-interpreted Big Guy's
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
That you have not seen any, was won of my points. The practice of deleting posts without tags leaves no evidence to be seen. These deletions are still a form of moderation.
No, you misunderstand. When one of those posts gets deleted without tags, it IS noticed after having read it. I DO notice the ones where a user who was over-the-top gets "moderated away."
SavageOne said:
My other point was that a member cannot break Rule #2, only be subjected to it. You seemed to be implying that any moderation of a post was the result of breaking the rules, if I am mistaken about your implication I apologize. It is easy to mis-interpret each others intents on a forum, just as you may or may not have mis-interpreted Big Guy's
Rule#2 is a disclaimer, and not a rule. I do not really see how it is actually relevant to this discussion.
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
Thank you for your reasoned and well thought out response. I have no doubt you do an excellent job moderating on that other forum. I sincerely hope we will also have moderators of such character here, I am willing to wait and see. I also realize there are bound to be some initial bumps in the road. I have no doubt that the Administrators are working to provide the fairest forum possible for the discussion of topics related to Open Carry. With that said, there have been what I believe to be significant bumps so far. I hope that the deletion of posts without the courtesy of an explanation will be addressed.

Just one more quick question, if I have not taxed you patience to much, on that other forum you moderate,you mention the mods are often PMed questions, are the mods open or hidden?

I will send you a PM here with the info. I don't want to make it look like a plug for another site (it is not another gun site), or further distract from the intent of the OP :)
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
I will send you a PM here with the info. I don't want to make it look like a plug for another site (it is not another gun site), or further distract from the intent of the OP :)

lol oops....

After reading your question, I see where I misread it. I thought you were asking for the name of the site, as well as if the mods were hidden or open.

Either way both were addressed in the PM, but for the benefit of those who are interested- the mods are easily identifiable and visible when online :p
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
No, you misunderstand. When one of those posts gets deleted without tags, it IS noticed after having read it. I DO notice the ones where a user who was over-the-top gets "moderated away."
Rule#2 is a disclaimer, and not a rule. I do not really see how it is actually relevant to this discussion.

As I have stated, I have had multiple posts deleted, over the last week. None of them, violated the rules or were over-the-top. I am therefore left with the conclusion that the only reason for them to be deleted was the Administrators use of Rule #2. I broke no rules and still had posts deleted(seeing the relevance to the discussion yet). You continue to imply that only rule breaking and over-the-top posts get moderated away. I will continue to state that is not the case.
 

wrightme

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
5,574
Location
Fallon, Nevada, USA
As I have stated, I have had multiple posts deleted, over the last week. None of them, violated the rules or were over-the-top. I am therefore left with the conclusion that the only reason for them to be deleted was the Administrators use of Rule #2. I broke no rules and still had posts deleted(seeing the relevance to the discussion yet). You continue to imply that only rule breaking and over-the-top posts get moderated away. I will continue to state that is not the case.
No, that is not correct. You might wish to review my statements on the matter, because you are misconstruing it.
 

SavageOne

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
577
Location
SEMO, , USA
No, that is not correct. You might wish to review my statements on the matter, because you are misconstruing it.


As I said, it is very easy to misinterpret someone's intent when not face to face. You say you have not seen any moderation of non rule breaking posts, and I am more than willing to take you at your word. I on the other hand have seen examples of it and would hope you will extend the same courtesy.
 

shotcop

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
67
Location
Colorado
It's not really an unrealistic expectation in any forum with integrity.

If my name is on a post it should reflect my thoughts, I should be able to stand behind it, and others should be able to depend on it being mine.

Anonymous or invisible edits disrupt that confidence.

This software has an option, an easy SINGLE option, that can prevent that on a blanket basis.

It is not an unreasonable expectation.

(I manage a number of sites using the same software. On none of them do I allow anyone, including myself, to surreptitiously edit other people's words. If a third party edit is done, that fact WILL be publicly visible, no exceptions.)

I feel strongly about not allowing a third party to change people's words without having visibility of the action or taking responsibility for the action. I think it is very basic to the openness and honesty of any forum.

"It's the principle of the thing." :(

Amen! If I discover that my post have been edited by others and appear to be my opinions when there not, unlike you I'm outta here! I will not have others confused about my stands, I speak my mind and you deserve to know how I not someone else thinks when it has MY name on it!!!!
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Amen! If I discover that my post have been edited by others and appear to be my opinions when there not, unlike you I'm outta here! I will not have others confused about my stands, I speak my mind and you deserve to know how I not someone else thinks when it has MY name on it!!!!

Not been my experience here to find my words edited by others. Our own communication is confusing enough without having some well-intentioned but otherwise damaging meddling misconstruing our own words.
 

OldCurlyWolf

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2010
Messages
907
Location
Oklahoma
I have on another forum. Not for profanity, but for strong opinions. My response is to say it is your forum and you can do that, but I disagree. Strong opinions are not something to censor. I did not make personal nor Ad Hominem attacks.

As you may have noticed I did not and will not name the forum nor the moderator. By the rules of the forum they were acting within those rules. I may not agree with their application thereof, but it is still their forum.
 

since9

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
6,964
Location
Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
Strong opinions are not something to censor.

You're right, OCW, they're not, and strong opinions are something I welcome. No, I don't like them, as it makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Nevertheless, strong opinions are vital in a healthy society, and that's good enough for me.

There is, however, a significant difference between strong opinions and pedantic nonsense, and the latter should be censored immediately, and without question. Please note I've never considered any material you've posted as falling into that category. Only one poster on this forum has ever earned that distinction, and he's on my (very short i.e. 1-member) ignore list.

Meanwhile, I agree with about half of what you post, and disagree with the rest. Regardless, I respect the entirety of your opinion.
 

rotorhead

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2010
Messages
862
Location
FL
It's almost always better to simply delete offensive (as defined by the TOS) posts than to change them. Changing them violates a person's expression and makes it seem that the words were the original thoughts of the poster. Deleting them sends a better message without changing the original thoughts.

In the US, it is our right to say what we want. However, a board's owner is under no obligation to allow it on his/ her site. We all read the TOS before we make our first posts and if anyone thinks a private board owned by somebody else is under some kind of obligation to allow posts which do nothing but degrade others, they obviously either did not understand the TOS, did not read the TOS, or simply chose to disregard them.

If people wish to exercise their right to say anything, even that which degrades others, they can simply do what others have done and start up their own forum. Then they can feel safe in knowing their thoughts will not be censored or deleted.

A slight warning though- a site that allows for degrading, insulting, offensive "anything goes" posts which soil the membership rarely sustains itself on a long term basis. People simply do not want to be around it for long. A few ragers out there will be happy, but when you think about it, who really wants to put up with it for long?

Again, most of these boards are privately owned and it is the owner's right to have it shaped and molded in whatever way they want. Their board, their rules. It's up to us to decide if we want to be a part of it, that's all. If an owner feels that some member is acting outside of the parameters of which he/ she sets up, how is it wrong that they act to fix the situation by using the tools at their disposal such as deleting posts and banning offenders that won't play by their rules?

I don't think many of us would put up with bad behavior on the part of visitors in our homes, why would board owners have to put up with it on a site that they pay for?

Ultimately, it's their playground and we agreed to the rules before we started playing in it. Don't be surprised when we get jacked up for posting things which take away from their vision of how they want it to appear.

On the opposite side, owners can quickly lose their membership base by doing things which violate common decency and respect. Changing the words of a post without proper notification is one of them. To that degree, it's their board, but no one will stay long if the trust is not their from the members. They can set it up with all the cool bells and whistles they can find to make it a nice looking board, but if no one can trust them, they'll find a very desolate playground every time they log on.

The proper balance is based on respect, both on the part of the ownership and the membership. Owners are fully within their rights to expect that certain behavior will not be allowed on their site, but so is the membership body. We all expect the basic respect each other deserves to make things work.

In reality, it's not that hard for both to be present :)
 
Last edited:

Blueberries

New member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
3
Location
wrg
The mod has the power to stealthily modify a post. Even if it has never happened, the possibility that it would allows for unscrupulous surreptitious action by a mod.
 
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