Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: School grounds during a sporting event.....slightly off topic!

  1. #1
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    109

    School grounds during a sporting event.....slightly off topic!

    I had a conversation with a Dinwiddie County Sherrif about this and haven't found the appropriate section of code to define it. If someone could point me in the right direction, it would be greatly appreciated!

    I know the law was changed to allow a weapon in a car on school grounds with a concelaled carry permit. I believe it was something to allow pickup and dropoff of students without being in violation of the no weapons on shoool grounds policy. If the gun is in a locked vehicle in a school parking lot during a sporting event, would this be a violation? I can give more particulars if necessary, but that is the gist of the conversation.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037
    It is 100% lawful in the parking or drive-aisle areas.

    There is no condition about picking up or dropping off a student.

    From 18.2-308.1

    (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1

    However, if your gun is in a closed container the rules are laid out in subsection vi

    (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  3. #3
    Regular Member ThunderRanch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Chesterfield, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    109
    The part that I see there that may be the issue is the "person in a vehicle". If I'm not in the vehicle with the gun in the glove box, vehicle locked, it would appear it would still be a violation if it is in a school parking lot. It would appear that, as long as it is unloaded, it should be within the statute?
    Last edited by ThunderRanch; 12-01-2010 at 10:52 AM.

  4. #4
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    It is 100% lawful in the parking or drive-aisle areas.

    There is no condition about picking up or dropping off a student.

    From 18.2-308.1

    (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1

    However, if your gun is in a closed container the rules are laid out in subsection vi

    (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle
    Very important: "while in a motor vehicle..." The law was written to allow CHP holders to drop off and pick up their kids from school. If you need to get out of the car, you have to unload and place the gun in a "closed container".

    TFred

  5. #5
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    If you need to get out of the car, you have to unload and place the gun in a "closed container".
    And I believe that is specifically addressed (response to the OP) in (vi), which I cited above.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  6. #6
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    And I believe that is specifically addressed (response to the OP) in (vi), which I cited above.
    Well, not to be needlessly picky, but your response was at the least confusing, because you introduced section vi with "if your gun is in a closed container the rules are...", which to me implies that what followed did not apply to a carried gun.

    It is very important to note that section vi describe the requirements that take over should you get out of the car, not just if you happen to have a gun in a closed container in your car while you are on school property.

    Semantics, but very important semantics.

    TFred

  7. #7
    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Va Beach, Occupied VA
    Posts
    3,037

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Well, not to be needlessly picky, but your response was at the least confusing, because you introduced section vi with "if your gun is in a closed container the rules are...", which to me implies that what followed did not apply to a carried gun.
    Ah, but exactly like A.G. opinions, I addressed specifically the question asked, which was in regard to having a gun IN a closed container IN a vehicle ON school property.

    By not addressing open carry in any way I did not (could not) imply by proxy that open carry would be lawful. I only addressed the question asked, which was all I ever intended to address.

    And what followed did not apply to a carried weapon. The rules on that are specific and established either in that code section or elsewhere.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671
    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderRanch View Post
    The part that I see there that may be the issue is the "person in a vehicle". If I'm not in the vehicle with the gun in the glove box, vehicle locked, it would appear it would still be a violation if it is in a school parking lot. It would appear that, as long as it is unloaded, it should be within the statute?
    If the gun is in the glove box, and you are outside of the car, then you are not in posession of the gun, since it is out side of your wingspan.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  9. #9
    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Newport News, VA, ,
    Posts
    1,586
    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    It is 100% lawful in the parking or drive-aisle areas.

    There is no condition about picking up or dropping off a student.

    From 18.2-308.1

    (vii) a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school. For the purposes of this paragraph, "weapon" includes a knife having a metal blade of three inches or longer and "closed container" includes a locked vehicle trunk.

    http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...cod+18.2-308.1

    However, if your gun is in a closed container the rules are laid out in subsection vi

    (vi) a person who possesses an unloaded firearm that is in a closed container, or a knife having a metal blade, in or upon a motor vehicle, or an unloaded shotgun or rifle in a firearms rack in or upon a motor vehicle
    18.2-308.1. Possession of firearm, stun weapon, or other weapon on school property prohibited.

    B. ... The exemptions set out in 18.2-308 shall apply, mutatis mutandis, to the provisions of this section.

    18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.
    B. ... Except as provided in subsection J1, this section shall not apply to:

    10. Any person who may lawfully possess a firearm and is carrying a handgun while in a personal, private motor vehicle or vessel and such handgun is secured in a container or compartment in the vehicle or vessel.

    I think that this statement overrides the "unloaded" requirement (for CHP holders) of 18.2-308.1

    I vaguely remember this issue being clarified this way shortly after the last GA session.

    ETA: Yep. Found it. See user's comment in http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...osed+container
    Last edited by 2a4all; 12-01-2010 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member 45acpForMe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Yorktown, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    2,803

  11. #11
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Ah, yes... this did change drastically after the last GA session. From this thread, we have the VA-ALERT text here:

    VA-ALERT: IMPORTANT: New Virginia gun laws

    Philip Van Cleave

    ----------------------------------------
    VCDL's meeting schedule: http://www.vcdl.org/meetings.html
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
    Abbreviations used in VA-ALERT: http://www.vcdl.org/help/abbr.html
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------

    You will probably want to keep this email, as it describes the new Virginia gun laws GOING INTO EFFECT ON JULY 1. There are some items here that you most likely are unaware of, so I highly recommend that you READ THIS ALERT IN ITS ENTIRETY.

    Areas affected by the new laws:

    ...

    MOTOR VEHICLES AND VESSELS

    For those who do not have a CHP, starting July 1 they can have a loaded handgun with them concealed in their motor vehicle or vessel as long as the handgun is secured in a container (such as a zipped bag, closed gun case, closed briefcase, etc.) or in a compartment (glovebox, console, etc.).

    NOTE: Remember that if you don't have a CHP, you generally can't carry a handgun in such a closed container OUTSIDE of your motor vehicle or vessel.

    K-12 SCHOOLS

    The new vehicle carry law, above, has an additional benefit for BOTH CHP holders and non-CHP holders. Under the law effective July 1, a loaded handgun can be kept in a secured container or a secured compartment in a motor vehicle while on K-12 school property.

    The new vehicle carry law (18.2-308 B 10) is in the list of general exemptions from the concealed weapon law. Police officers and Commonwealth Attorneys, for example, are listed in 18.2-308 B. The key is that in the third paragraph of the K-12 school weapons law (18.2-308.1) it says that anyone exempted from the concealed weapon law is also exempted from the ban on guns on K-12 school property.

    Thus, as long as your loaded handgun is in a secured compartment or a secured container BEFORE you pull onto school property and REMAINS SECURED in that compartment or container UNTIL AFTER you pull off the property, you are legal.

    In case those of you with CHPs are wondering why you can't carry outside of your vehicle on K-12 school property, that's because the CHP wording (18.2-308 D) is NOT in the list of exemptions to the concealed weapon law (18.2-308 B and 18.2-308 C). Instead, you can think of your CHP as a "get out of jail free" card. You are not actually exempted from the concealed carry law, but you have an affirmative defense against any prosecution.

    I think we should be working to exempt CHP holders from the concealed weapon law.

    ...
    TFred

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •