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Thread: Open carry 'cos Michigan CCW Holders' Suicide Rate Higher!

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    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Open carry 'cos Michigan CCW Holders' Suicide Rate Higher!

    Michigan CCW Holders' Suicide Rate Higher Than Michigan's General Population

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/josh-s..._b_790524.html

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Josh Sugarmann is hypocrite.

    He has held a Class-1 FFL for nearly two decades, and has never engaged in a single commercial sale of a firearm, AND under current DC Zoning Codes, it is illegal to operate a firearms business in DC unless you are excepted as a Federally-approved R&D business, or a supplier for military or LE contracts.

    He should be reported to the BATFE, the FBI, DC-MPD, and the DC Zoning Board for fraudulently submitting an FFL application and illegally operating a firearms business in DC.
    Josh Sugarmann
    Violence Policy Center
    1730 Rhode Island Avenue, NW
    Suite 1014
    Washington, DC 20036

    Phone: 202 822 8200
    email: www.vpc.org

    Sugarmann's complete FFL number is Number 1-54-000-01-8C-00725
    His current expiration date is 03/01/2011
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-02-2010 at 01:43 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    Josh Sugarmann is hypocrite.

    He has held a Class-1 FFL for nearly two decades, and has never engaged in a single commercial sale of a firearm, AND under current DC Zoning Codes, it is illegal to operate a firearms business in DC unless you are excepted as a Federally-approved R&D business, or a supplier for military or LE contracts.

    He should be reported to the BATFE, the FBI, DC-MPD, and the DC Zoning Board for fraudulently submitting an FFL application and illegally operating a firearms business in DC.
    Josh Sugarmann
    Violence Policy Center
    1730 Rhode Island Avenue, NW
    Suite 1014
    Washington, DC 20036

    Phone: 202 822 8200
    email: www.vpc.org

    Sugarmann's complete FFL number is Number 1-54-000-01-8C-00725
    His current expiration date is 03/01/2011
    Great find! What a dick this guy is. The per capita data he i s reporting on is so insignificant in contrast to the vast majority of CCW holders nation wide that it only looks significant if you mention it. By his reporting strategy, you could take the number of people who slit their wrist to commit suicides and argue that kitchen knives should be banned!

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I might add that it is this man who coined the infamous term in its current vernacular: "assault weapon/assault rifle". These terms (one of which is genuine but NOT in its commonly used meaning) reared their heads after the Stockton, CA school yard shooting by a Mr. Patrick Purdy. In company with the then chief of police McNamara, a virulently anti-run LEO, Sugarmann managed to get these terms into the public conversation with the help of a more-than-willing national press media.

    So prevalent have these terms become in our society that even gun folks use them when speaking of semi-automatic rifles which not only furthers their misuse, but goes a long way in helping the antis get there message across.
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    Meaningless. The numbers fail to consider the demographic of permit holders. The rates should only be compared to the same demographic of non-permit holders.

    One example of this, just off the top of my head: The demographic of permit holders does not include folks aged 0-21, who have a lower suicide rate than the age group that typically has permits. Even teens, who people believe commit suicide at a greater rate, actually have a lower suicide rate than young adults.

    I don't know the ratio of male to female permit holders (I suspect it is high), but men in the US commit suicide at four times the rate of women.

    Any study comparing suicide rates should compare the rates between two groups with similar demographics, where the only variable is the possession of a permit. That's just elementary statistics and science.

    One more demonstration of the rhetorical incompetence (or dishonesty) necessary to put forth an anti- argument.

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    Apparently I don't understand his math. It appears as though he's trying to indicate percentages per 100,000 though it looks at face value as a direct number and not a percentage.

    So I'm left with this question: If concealed carry endorsement holders (is that what you're after Dreamer?) are part of the general population, then why would the numbers be any different for concealed carry endorsement vs general population per 100,000?

    Sorry, it made my head hurt.

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by REALteach4u View Post
    So I'm left with this question: If concealed carry endorsement holders (is that what you're after Dreamer?)
    I appreciate the effort. Thanks...

    No harm, no foul. A+ for effort!

    But in Michigan, they are called "CPLs" (Concealed Pistol License).

    http://www.usacarry.com/michigan_con...formation.html

    I expect someone like Josh Sugarmann to get that one wrong though, and use "CCW" to describe a permit for lawful CC. Sugarmann is a hypocrite, a compulsive liar, and a sociopath. He's has a Class-1 FFL for nearly 2 decades, while running his "business" in DC, which violates at least 2 BATFE requirements for obtaining an FFL--his business is not zoned to be a firearms dealer, and he is no tactively engaged in the commercial sale of firearms...

    Josh Sugarmann should be in a Federal prison for providing false information to obtain an FFL. I'm sure he'd find PLENTy of like-minded friends in the pen--criminals don't like the idea of an armed populace either...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-04-2010 at 12:32 AM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
    --Barry Goldwater, 1964

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    well i haven't shot myself,,,,,,yes his figures are off. however i have better ways to spend my time than try to force fiction on people...
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    By his reporting strategy, you could take the number of people who slit their wrist to commit suicides and argue that kitchen knives should be banned!
    You bring up a good point, although in a round-about way. Those who're more familiar with firearms are more likely to use a firearm to commit suicide, with a dramatically greater "success" rate than most other means of suicide.

    Thus his approac is altogether incorrect for the conclusions he draws. It's clear he's an idiot when it comes to statistics.

    The correct statistic is the number of attempted suicides for CCW-holders as compared to the general public. The problem is, many attempted suicides are never reported, thus the statistics would be even further skewed.

    In conclusion, I agree that Josh Sugarmann is a knucklehead, albeit well-versed in prose. However, as Qui-Gon said, "The ability to speak does not make one intelligent."
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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