Reciprocity Issues

Gunslinger · Feb 16, 2011

steveaikens said:
Our reciprocity/honors are established with states that have laws and requirements "substantially similar NM CHL requirements". One of the major requirements in NM statutes is a proficiency demonstration and certification from a Certified Instructor. I am one of the people that got reciprocity added to our law. I am the person that submitted the list of states that met all our requirements - or were "substantially similar" at that time. UT was NOT on that original list. It was added because there was a move to work with our neighboring states. UT never should have been added and adding them created a violation of our laws. Essentially, if someone with a UT permit accidentially injured someone here in NM, the state was open to a lawsuit for not upholding our own laws.

Further, it is also a fact that state residents were circumventing our CHL program by picking up a "gimmee" license from UT - which is honored in NM - and bragging about how slick they were even to NM DPS. We had a choice, drop UT or refuse our residents with licenses from other honored states.

Perhaps if you read out statutes, you'd have a better understanding of why UT got dropped. It was the best thing the state could do to protect itself, and our residents.

Unless UT falls into compliance with NM training statues - it isn't happening.

Lastly, you need to know that the Gov does not make law, just signs legislation into law. The State Congress passes legislation, which is then submitted to the Gov to sign into law.

Withdrawn.

PT111 · Feb 16, 2011

Mike said:
I think NM jumped the gun on Utah - very few states require range training to get a concealed handgun license, e.g., Virginia, and NM still accepts them.

Weird.

I have never been a fan of requiring range training for a permit other that I think FL used to require you to fire one round in the presence of the Instructor and not hit the Instructor or yourself. To me range qualification is greatly overrated especially this mess about having to qualify with each gun you want to carry. This is not to say that I am for permits but have to face the facts that they are required in some places so I have to live with that until it can be overturned. I do think that before you carry a gun you should at least know what is meant by self-defense and which end of the gun the bullet comes out of. Now how you want to assure that is up to you and right now we aren't doing a very good job of it.

steveaikens · Feb 21, 2011

http://www.bouldercounty.org/find/library/certificateslicenses/permitinfo.pdf

In addition to the completed application form you must submit:
• A $52.50 processing fee in the form of a cashier’s check or money order, made payable to
the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI). Do not obtain funds that have an expiration
date. This fee pays for a state and national criminal history check (fingerprints) and for an
Insta-check (NICS) per Statute. This is required for all regular civilian applicants.
• A $100.00 processing fee in the form of a cashier’s check, money order, or personal check,
made payable to Boulder County Sheriff’s Office. This fee pays for forms, ID cards, local
criminal history checks, and other administrative costs.
• Proof of residency. (Colorado Driver’s License, Colorado ID Card or Military ID Card and
Duty Orders)
• Documentary evidence demonstrating competence with a handgun as specified in section 18-
12-203 (1) (h) of the Colorado Revised Statute. (See TRAINING REQUIREMENTS
SECTION for further details.)

EDIT: Thanks Gunslinger.

steveaikens · Feb 21, 2011

Due to a number of states dropping UT, UT has made a change to their Statue that requires out of state residents to possess a permit from their home state, before they will be issued a UT Non-Resident permit.

http://le.utah.gov/~2011/bills/sbillamd/sb0036s01.pdf

8 General Description:
9 This bill amends provisions of the Concealed Firearm Act related to the issuance of
10 concealed firearm permits to nonresidents.
11 Highlighted Provisions:
12 This bill:
13 requires a nonresident applicant for a concealed firearm permit to hold a current
14 concealed firearm or concealed weapon permit from the applicant's state of
15 residency that recognizes the validity of the Utah permit in that state or has
16 reciprocity with the Utah concealed firearm permit law; and
17 requires a nonresident applicant to pay an additional $5 processing fee for the
18 issuance of the permit.

This recent change will satisfy all states that have objected to UT issuing licenses without a handgun qualification and prevent applicants from circumventing their resident state statutes by receiving a UT permit without meeting the requirements of their home states.

I have contacted NM DPS and am opening a dialog to step up the reciprocity agreement process and try to work with them administratively to make improvements through our Administrative Code, rather than legislatively. DPS has some issues with things that we can fix for them that are firearms friendly and we obviously have some things we want improved that working together, we can improve outside the legislative process.

PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT DPS with suggestions or comments. They have a lot on their plate and fielding email and phone comments is time consuming, and generally solves anything on an individual basis. With their new Director, a lot is happening behind the scenes that is improving how and what they can/are doing. One immediately noticable result is the time to issue licenses. When I last spoke with the CCU - I was told there were applications in the drawer that were 14 days old, awaiting printing and mailing. From a couple posts here recently, that improvement is being seen in several cases.

Steve Aikens

mrjam2jab · Feb 21, 2011

Gunslinger said:
There is no proficiency training in CO, just classroom. And we have reciprocity with NM.

steveaikens said:
Not exactly correct:

http://www.bouldercounty.org/find/library/certificateslicenses/permitinfo.pdf

In addition to the completed application form you must submit:
• A $52.50 processing fee in the form of a cashier’s check or money order, made payable to
the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI). Do not obtain funds that have an expiration
date. This fee pays for a state and national criminal history check (fingerprints) and for an
Insta-check (NICS) per Statute. This is required for all regular civilian applicants.
• A $100.00 processing fee in the form of a cashier’s check, money order, or personal check,
made payable to Boulder County Sheriff’s Office. This fee pays for forms, ID cards, local
criminal history checks, and other administrative costs.
• Proof of residency. (Colorado Driver’s License, Colorado ID Card or Military ID Card and
Duty Orders)
• Documentary evidence demonstrating competence with a handgun as specified in section 18-
12-203 (1) (h) of the Colorado Revised Statute. (See TRAINING REQUIREMENTS
SECTION for further details.)

and from the statute section:

(h) Demonstrates competence with a handgun by submitting:

(I) Evidence of experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competitions or current military service;

(II) Evidence that, at the time the application is submitted, the applicant is a certified instructor;

(III) Proof of honorable discharge from a branch of the United States armed forces within the three years preceding submittal of the application;

(IV) Proof of honorable discharge from a branch of the United States armed forces that reflects pistol qualifications obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of the application;

(V) A certificate showing retirement from a Colorado law enforcement agency that reflects pistol qualifications obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of the application; or

(VI) A training certificate from a handgun training class obtained within the ten years preceding submittal of the application. The applicant shall submit the original training certificate or a photocopy thereof that includes the original signature of the class instructor. In obtaining a training certificate from a handgun training class, the applicant shall have discretion in selecting which handgun training class to complete.

Kind of hard to demonstrate competence without actually handling a gun....although (VI) gives a lot of leeway...

NMBill · Feb 23, 2011

AZ CCW Permit

In case others are interested, applied for and received my Arizona permit in about a week and a half. As I mentioned earlier, if one has a New Mexico permit, Arizona requires only a completed application, two fingerprint cards, a copy of your New Mexico permit and a cashier's check/money order for $60. Contact Arizona DPS via phome or their website, if you'd like an application package.

What does the additional permit get you? You pick up something like 9 or 10 more states, who will honor your permit. The deep South accepts the Arizona permit, but those states don't honor the New Mexico permit. If you travel, the second permit comes in handy. You can check out reciprocity for each state at http://www.handgunlaw.us/.

AH.74 · Feb 24, 2011

Glad you ended up doing this, Bill.

What it also gets you is a 5th year and (more importantly to me) covers you in case the NM DPS is still having problems issuing renewals without letting them expire first, at the time your renewal is up. Hopefully this shameful practice has stopped.

No renewal requirements at 5 years other than paying again, either.

nmglocker · Mar 20, 2011

NMBill said:
In case others are interested, applied for and received my Arizona permit in about a week and a half. As I mentioned earlier, if one has a New Mexico permit, Arizona requires only a completed application, two fingerprint cards, a copy of your New Mexico permit and a cashier's check/money order for $60. Contact Arizona DPS via phome or their website, if you'd like an application package.

What does the additional permit get you? You pick up something like 9 or 10 more states, who will honor your permit. The deep South accepts the Arizona permit, but those states don't honor the New Mexico permit. If you travel, the second permit comes in handy. You can check out reciprocity for each state at http://www.handgunlaw.us/.

I did the same thing. Mailed on March 10th, issued on March 16th, received on March 19th. Pretty sweet. Thanks NM Bill for the information.

PracticalTactical · Mar 20, 2011

steveaikens said:
With their new Director, a lot is happening behind the scenes that is improving how and what they can/are doing. One immediately noticable result is the time to issue licenses. When I last spoke with the CCU - I was told there were applications in the drawer that were 14 days old, awaiting printing and mailing. From a couple posts here recently, that improvement is being seen in several cases.

Steve Aikens

Yup, a recent applicant got it back in less than 3 weeks. I figured it might have something to do with the recent change of governor

Shameless Sig Plug: Practical Tactical Training - The Best CHL class value in Southern New Mexico. PM me for details or call 575-520-8888

PracticalTactical · Mar 20, 2011

NMBill said:
In case others are interested, applied for and received my Arizona permit in about a week and a half. As I mentioned earlier, if one has a New Mexico permit, Arizona requires only a completed application, two fingerprint cards, a copy of your New Mexico permit and a cashier's check/money order for $60. Contact Arizona DPS via phome or their website, if you'd like an application package.

What does the additional permit get you? You pick up something like 9 or 10 more states, who will honor your permit. The deep South accepts the Arizona permit, but those states don't honor the New Mexico permit. If you travel, the second permit comes in handy. You can check out reciprocity for each state at http://www.handgunlaw.us/.

If anybody around Las Cruces with a NM CHL wants to get an AZ permit, I can take care of all that.

I'll provide fingerprinting, an AZ app packet and copies of AZ statutes for $30. All you need is a copy of your NM license, 4 stamps and a money order for $60 payable to AZ DPS.

I'll go to other parts of the state too, but that'll cost you mileage and possibly the cost of a nice hotel room

-----------------
Shameless Sig Plug: Practical Tactical Training - The Best CHL class value in Southern New Mexico. PM me for details or call 575-520-8888

Reciprocity Issues

Gunslinger

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PT111

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steveaikens

Opt-Out Members

steveaikens

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mrjam2jab

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NMBill

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AH.74

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nmglocker

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PracticalTactical

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PracticalTactical

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