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Thread: Why Open Carry?

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Why Open Carry?

    I've never seen a direct reply to this category. The answers always dance around the topic, but never say it like it is.

    "Why Open Carry?"

    "Because having the right to protect yourself is not the same as actually being able to."

    It's all fine and dandy to think about your Rights. If you don't actually carry a weapon where everyone can see it, reality is that you are incapable of defending yourself.

    Concealed Carry increases your odds and you might get lucky if you're one of the special elite selected for that privilege. But, supposedly, it's a Right we all have...

    OC is all we've really got.

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    Regular Member Mr H's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I've never seen a direct reply to this category. The answers always dance around the topic, but never say it like it is.

    "Why Open Carry?"

    "Because having the right to protect yourself is not the same as actually being able to."

    It's all fine and dandy to think about your Rights. If you don't actually carry a weapon where everyone can see it, reality is that you are incapable of defending yourself.

    Concealed Carry increases your odds and you might get lucky if you're one of the special elite selected for that privilege. But, supposedly, it's a Right we all have...

    OC is all we've really got.
    Because the founders saw fit to acknowledge--and preserve--our natural right to self-protection, and give us the option to exercise it as we saw fit.

    Sadly, our political keepers have determined that many of us (especially in states like MD) aren't wise, willing, or capable enough to make that determination for ourselves.

    I have made a personal decision, whenever I travel, to open carry whenever it is legal (and not an obvious
    issue for the event). I do, thankfully, also have an option of CC... but that's a topic for another forum!!

    ;-))

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    Because we can.

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I've never seen a direct reply to this category. The answers always dance around the topic, but never say it like it is.

    "Why Open Carry?"

    "Because having the right to protect yourself is not the same as actually being able to."

    It's all fine and dandy to think about your Rights. If you don't actually carry a weapon where everyone can see it, reality is that you are incapable of defending yourself.

    Concealed Carry increases your odds and you might get lucky if you're one of the special elite selected for that privilege. But, supposedly, it's a Right we all have...

    OC is all we've really got.
    Not really.

    I carry a firearm for several reasons, including self-defense being my Constitutional right, and the fact I served my country under oath to protect and defend my Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic.

    The Brady Bunch and their ilk aren't the only domestic enemies of our Second Amendment rights. Complacency and the lack of exercising a right is as much an enemy as someone actively campaigning against you.

    That's why I carry.

    I open carry because although I can (and often do) concealed carry, when I CC, no one knows. I may be exercising my 2A rights, but the only one who knows about it is me. No one in the general public is reminded that we all have the right to keep and bear arms. Furthermore, there's no deterrent effect when I CC.

    Thus, I OC for three intertwined reasons:

    1. To educate/remind the public. "A right not exercised is a right lost."

    2. As a visible deterrent against crime in the general areas I normally frequent.

    3. For self-defense.

    When I CC, only the third reason applies.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Just go talk to a cop, in that conversation make the suggestion to him, "Why don't you, when you get dressed tomorrow morning, just conceal your weapon like "normal" people do"?
    Last edited by stainless1911; 12-23-2010 at 12:38 AM.

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    Regular Member Brimstone Baritone's Avatar
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    It's a tradeoff.

    When I OC, I'm making a tradeoff. If I CC I look just like someone who is unarmed. I take the risk of being targeted by goons in order to look less threatening to the sheeple.

    When I OC, I lessen my attractiveness to criminals, but have to put up with more flak from antis, cops, and other 'concerned' citizens.

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    Why do you carry?

    Answer: For when the zombie apocalypse happens

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdonalk View Post
    When I OC, I'm making a tradeoff. If I CC I look just like someone who is unarmed. I take the risk of being targeted by goons in order to look less threatening to the sheeple.

    When I OC, I lessen my attractiveness to criminals, but have to put up with more flak from antis, cops, and other 'concerned' citizens.
    Yes, it is a tradeoff. And because it's a tradeoff, it's also a wonderful opportunity to educate.

    I OC to educate both the sheeple as well as the goons.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post

    Thus, I OC for three intertwined reasons:

    1. To educate/remind the public. "A right not exercised is a right lost."

    2. As a visible deterrent against crime in the general areas I normally frequent.

    3. For self-defense.

    When I CC, only the third reason applies.
    I would also add that I OC for two other reasons:
    4. Comfort (OWB carry only gets covered when I wear a jacket or some button down shirts)
    5. Speed of access to firearm. There is no cover garment to get in my way.

  10. #10
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I have carried a handgun for many years, most of them concealed. I just started OC'ing in the summer of '07 and my primary reason was because of my knees. I had the beginnings of osteoarthritis in both knees which precluded me from fighting or running from an attack. I elected to move to OC because when CC'in, you look just like anyone else; a potential victim. When OC'ing, your sidearm is visible, like the teeth of a wolf, telling others who may wish to do you harm that perhaps it's in their best interests to go elsewhere. Are there guarantees with this? Of course not. But your exposed sidearm does serve as a warning. And I am fortunate to live in a state where the open carry of a defensive arm is the default, or normal, method of carrying, and Virginia is VERY gun-friendly and lenient for those who chose to carry.

    As for political statements? Nope, I don't really concern or worry myself about this. I am pleased that it sends a positive message to the general public and portrays the carrying of arms as a right among free people. And in the entire time I have been OC'ing, I have only had one negative encounter and that was from a customer at a MacDonalds who claimed he was a retired LEO. Judging from his accent, he was not native to my state.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    I open carry because there is no better crime deterrant than a firearm on your side. I carry to protect my young family from the criminals that are everywhere...I carry because it was a right given to me from the men that founded this country, and by god. I carry because I havent had the extra money to obtain a concealed carry permit, but even when I do get one, I will still open carry. We need to exercise our rights. The media is exercising theirs everyday talking about how govt. needs to take our rights away, or they need to limit mag. capacity. They exercise their 1st, then I will exercise my 2nd. Criminals are called criminals because they break the law, new laws will do nothing to stop crime. We need to open carry to show people that good, law abiding citizens can responsibly carry a gun. Not everyone is bad that has a firearm, and that not many criminals are known to open carry. We need to get the word out of its legality, where it is legal, and we need to fight to get this freedom back where it isnt. Yesterday I saw a wonderful quote, "When this country was founded it wasnt called open carry, it was simply freedom." Where did this mentality go? We need to get it back, If everyone carried, like they used to, what would happen to crime.? It would drop significantly, just like how it was almost non existant, until people stopped carrying their firearms.

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    I carry because I know that I am not invincible.

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    Regular Member William Fisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcdonalk View Post
    When I OC, I'm making a tradeoff. If I CC I look just like someone who is unarmed. I take the risk of being targeted by goons in order to look less threatening to the sheeple.

    When I OC, I lessen my attractiveness to criminals, but have to put up with more flak from antis, cops, and other 'concerned' citizens.
    My thoughts run along that line. If you're CCing and someone tries to rob or attact you then SOMEONE is going to get hurt. The confrontation is far less likely if the punk sees that you're armed in the first place.

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    Regular Member marionmedic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Fisher View Post
    My thoughts run along that line. If you're CCing and someone tries to rob or attact you then SOMEONE is going to get hurt. The confrontation is far less likely if the punk sees that you're armed in the first place.
    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms... disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man." -- Thomas Jefferson's "Commonplace Book,"
    What part of "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" is so hard to understand ???


    James: Ain't this a little showy, Pa? I mean with the guns out an' all?

    Big Jake: James, don't be fooled. They all know what's in this box, and they all want it. what we're doin' with this audacious DISplay is tellin' 'em they can't have it. Who knows, we may be savin' some poor miscreant soul's life this way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strife1013 View Post
    Why do you carry?

    Answer: For when the zombie apocalypse happens
    Because I don't keep up on cardio (rule #1), I plan to double tap (rule #2).
    It takes a village to raise an idiot.

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    Im currently working on a formal argument paper for a college level communication studies course and have decided to do my argument in favor of keeping UOC legal in California. I have several reasons to use as support for my argument but the one that I would like to use as the foundation for my claim is our 2nd amendment rights. After reading SCOTUS' ruling in Chicago vs. McDonald and DC vs. Heller, I see the justices who consented reaffirming our rights as citizens of the US "to use handguns for self defense in the home" and for "lawful purposes". However I do not see anything in either of these rulings that show California would be in violation of the constitution if they banned open carry. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

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    Sometimes you have to take things a step at a time, and protecting UOC is the reasonable current focus. But, don't lose sight of unlicensed loaded carry without restrictions as the ultimate goal. Please don't think that protecting UOC protects the right. It is better than no carry, but is decidedly a State-granted privilege and not the right.

    IMO, CA is (and most States are) violating the individual right to carry that was affirmed in Heller and McDonald. The SCOTUS left open the door to reasonable regulation, without defining such, but requiring firearms to be unloaded is not only unreasonable, it is downright silly and dangerous.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alrossitto View Post
    Im currently working on a formal argument paper for a college level communication studies course and have decided to do my argument in favor of keeping UOC legal in California. I have several reasons to use as support for my argument but the one that I would like to use as the foundation for my claim is our 2nd amendment rights. After reading SCOTUS' ruling in Chicago vs. McDonald and DC vs. Heller, I see the justices who consented reaffirming our rights as citizens of the US "to use handguns for self defense in the home" and for "lawful purposes". However I do not see anything in either of these rulings that show California would be in violation of the constitution if they banned open carry. Can anyone shed any light on this for me?
    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    <snip>IMO, CA is (and most States are) violating the individual right to carry that was affirmed in Heller and McDonald. The SCOTUS left open the door to reasonable regulation, without defining such, but requiring firearms to be unloaded is not only unreasonable, it is downright silly and dangerous.
    McDonald v Chicago:

    It is important to keep in mind that Heller, while striking down a law that prohibited the possession of handguns in the home, recognized that the right to keep and bear arms is not “a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.” 554 U. S., at ___ (slip op., at 54). We made it clear in Heller that our holding did not cast doubt on such longstanding regulatory measures as “prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill,” “laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and gov-ernment buildings, or laws imposing conditions and quali-fications on the commercial sale of arms.” Id., at ___–___ (slip op., at 54–55). We repeat those assurances here. Despite municipal respondents’ doomsday proclamations, incorporation does not imperil every law regulating firearms.
    Actually the court did...the 3 regulatory measures listed in the McDonald opinion are the scope in which the court will allow. So short of any area in CA being a 'sensitive area' the full right of the right to bear arms must be met.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Thank you, gogodawgs! I read the SCOTUS decisions but was still somewhat unclear about how exactly that applied to California. Much appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    McDonald v Chicago:

    Actually the court did...the 3 regulatory measures listed in the McDonald opinion are the scope in which the court will allow. So short of any area in CA being a 'sensitive area' the full right of the right to bear arms must be met.
    Nothing in the ruling indicated that the list was exhaustive--the list is merely exemplary. (Note the words "such...as.") The court deliberately continued to leave open the door it left open in Heller, allowing them to individually decide whether any particular restriction would infringe on the Right.

    Until several of rulings regarding the constitutionality of a variety of regulations and laws come down, we won't have a good handle on what the Court would find to be infringing. I believe that they should find laws requiring unloaded carry to be an infringement. I believe they will. There is no guarantee though.

    On edit: alrossitto, don't be so sure that you now understand how McDonald affects CA UOC. No one can say with any level of certainty yet.
    Last edited by eye95; 06-16-2011 at 01:16 PM.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Scrutiny

    Correct, we are waiting for the level of scrutiny the court will use in determining the constitutionality of state and local laws. While the court always leaves their options open, the quote I posted above (pg. 39-40) is a clear indicator of where and how the level of scrutiny will be determined. I have studied constitutional law and the direction that the 2A is headed is via 'strict scrutiny'. That will benefit OC, loaded OC/CC, shall issue permitting processes and reciprocity. It will still take time for the appropriate cases to move through the legal system, but with the current make up of the court results tend to move in the favor of our side.
    Live Free or Die!

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post

    On edit: alrossitto, don't be so sure that you now understand how McDonald affects CA UOC. No one can say with any level of certainty yet.
    Thanks. I definitely don't feel I understand how McDonald affects CA UOC. I UOC when and where I can for my own reasons and within the law. I mainly started this thread to strengthen my persuasive argument that I will be presenting in front of a college class of mainly younger students.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    There are plenty of reasons for Open Carry. Personly, it's about comfort. Look, I carry a bunch of crap with me that I really don't want loading down my pockets or stored in my pockets wehre it will get scratched up or otherwise damaged.
    For example, my cellphone. I put it in my pocket and I risk damaging the screen or pocket dialing someone. So I have it in a strudy case for my belt.
    Same for my keys. I kep them on a belt clip so they aren't poking holes in my pokets. I can get to them when i need them.
    I almost always carry a canister of Freeze+P CS/OC spray as a less than lethal tool. Again, this isn't buried in a poket with my spare change. I keep it in a belt holster.
    My portable ham radio. Yes, I'm a radio geek. I have been most of my life and have been a licensed ham since 1995. I regularly keep a VHF/UHF "walkie talkie" clipped to my belt when I'm out and about. My better half is also a ham and she is usually monitoring at home.
    Alright, you can see where this is going. I've already got a phone, my keys, my OC and even a radio hanging on my belt. Add a pistol and a spare mag case and there comes a point when you just say "screw it" and get a dedicated pistol belt and wear everything in the open. Otherwise you end up walking down the street or getting in and out of your car with your pockets bulging and things sticking you in the leg and you can't get to any of it when you need it anyway. No cover garment is going to conceal it and, hey, I spent 8 years in Catholic school so I just can't get in the habit of walking around with my shirt untucked. I have recuring flashbacks of nuns telling me to tuck my shirt in.
    So I have a "duty belt" with my pistol in a triple retention holster, my spare mag case holding a reload and my digital voice recorder, my radio pouch, my Freeze, my cellphone and keys. When I get dressed I just grab the belt and put it on and when I get home I unsnap it and hang it on the bedpost until the next time I'm up and about. Not much different than the Load Bearing Equiptment (LBE) setup I used in the Army.
    There you go. Comfort for carrying all the crap I like to carry but don't want in my pockets or try to cover with an impossibly large shirt.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member hermannr's Avatar
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    I carry for comfort. I do not worry about if it is on my hip in the open, or tucked under a coat, I never intentionally CC, however, because of (winter) weather it may be concealed by necessary extra clothing.

    I am of the personal opinion that a weapon carried out in the open is considerably less likely to be needed than one that is concealed. OC is a great deterant, the BG that would like to beat and rob an old gray haired man (me) would probably think twice if he knew I was armed...don't you think?

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    How Could You NOT Open Carry With These Grips?

    Click image for larger version. 

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