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Why no 4th-A law suit, for PC12031(e) violations ?

Robin47

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2008
Messages
545
Location
Susanville, California, USA
I'm wondering why no one has filed a lawsuit for 4-A violations concerning the PC 12031(e) ?

There might have been someone who did, but I haven't been able to find it on this forum.
I can't understand how a 12031 (e) can "Legally" be enforced, with out breaking your 4th-A rights
and no one has filed in Federal court yet.
Anybody have any Information on this ?

Robin47 :(
 

chewy352

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2009
Messages
769
Location
Harrah, Oklahoma
If you have the time and money then go for it. 12031 is on CGF radar but they are taking down CA draconian gun laws in a specific order.
 

xnetc9

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
104
Location
Orange County, CA
according to lawyer, they need to violate you several times before you have a real case. one time is an oopsie and won't win much in court. i already got one case and waiting for a second time for the OCPDs to violate my rights again before I may get a case.

another sad thing is that they are legally allowed to detain you up to 20 minutes to determine if you are committing a crime. only if they arrested me and took me to central jail, then i really have a case.
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
according to lawyer, they need to violate you several times before you have a real case. one time is an oopsie and won't win much in court. i already got one case and waiting for a second time for the OCPDs to violate my rights again before I may get a case.

Your lawyer is probably recalling Kolender v. Lawson where a San Diegan was harassed b police again and again for ID. It was useful to that guy to be able to show a pattern of harassment because the ID law at the time didn't require reasonable, articulable suspicion (I believe) and the police could ask for ID from anybody really. Is 12031(e) similar? I guess in some ways. You're stopped for a period of time without any RAS while your property is seized. It probably isn't needed to be stopped repeatedly, but it couldn't hurt your case.

another sad thing is that they are legally allowed to detain you up to 20 minutes to determine if you are committing a crime. only if they arrested me and took me to central jail, then i really have a case.

You can be detained for a reasonable amount of time if there is RAS that a crime has or is about to occur. You can't be detained if there isn't RAS. If you are (e) checked and it lasts 20 minutes then your rights have been violated. If it lasts more than a minute then your rights have been violated (unless the officers actually have RAS).
 

xnetc9

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2010
Messages
104
Location
Orange County, CA
You can be detained for a reasonable amount of time if there is RAS that a crime has or is about to occur. You can't be detained if there isn't RAS. If you are (e) checked and it lasts 20 minutes then your rights have been violated. If it lasts more than a minute then your rights have been violated (unless the officers actually have RAS).


and i am sure all LEOs will claim they need 20 minutes to determine if there was a crime committed, will be a crime, or if there is a crime. OCPDs will always try to harass since it is an antigun county.
 

bigtoe416

Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Messages
1,747
Location
Oregon
and i am sure all LEOs will claim they need 20 minutes to determine if there was a crime committed, will be a crime, or if there is a crime. OCPDs will always try to harass since it is an antigun county.

They can say and do whatever they want. I'm just telling you what my understanding of what they are supposed to do is. If you can get them to say into an audio recorder that they need 20 minutes to determine if there was a crime committed, then that's great. You'll have my full support to sue the pants off of anybody who ignores RAS for a detainment.
 

JoeSparky

Centurion
Joined
Jun 20, 2008
Messages
3,621
Location
Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
I don't rember who it was but recently on individual ON THIS FORUM was tagged 2x by 2 different agencies no more than 3 min apart! And he got it on audio/video recording!
 

KS_to_CA

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2008
Messages
443
Location
National City, CA, ,
according to lawyer, they need to violate you several times before you have a real case. one time is an oopsie and won't win much in court. i already got one case and waiting for a second time for the OCPDs to violate my rights again before I may get a case.

another sad thing is that they are legally allowed to detain you up to 20 minutes to determine if you are committing a crime. only if they arrested me and took me to central jail, then i really have a case.

What about multiple violations of the same agency against different individuals? Is that not a pattern?
 

wildhawker

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2009
Messages
113
Location
California, USA
Yeah I got Patience, as I'm old and tired anyway.
However it would be nice to see some more freedom in my life time ! Robin47 :)

You'll see much more, and if you have another 10 years in you, the world might not be recognizable from where you started.

12031(e) is on the radar. As Gene said, patience.
 

markm

New member
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
487
Location
, ,
Good post!

Your lawyer is probably recalling Kolender v. Lawson where a San Diegan was harassed b police again and again for ID. It was useful to that guy to be able to show a pattern of harassment because the ID law at the time didn't require reasonable, articulable suspicion (I believe) and the police could ask for ID from anybody really. Is 12031(e) similar? I guess in some ways. You're stopped for a period of time without any RAS while your property is seized. It probably isn't needed to be stopped repeatedly, but it couldn't hurt your case.



You can be detained for a reasonable amount of time if there is RAS that a crime has or is about to occur. You can't be detained if there isn't RAS. If you are (e) checked and it lasts 20 minutes then your rights have been violated. If it lasts more than a minute then your rights have been violated (unless the officers actually have RAS).

Hey Bigtoe,

I concur with your opinion.

+1

markm
 

markm

New member
Joined
Mar 7, 2010
Messages
487
Location
, ,
Cato who?

Glad you chimed in...they don't listen to me...:cry:

Hey Cato,

Please chalk this too ignorance of your record on my part; I don't know your record.

I respect your opinion and enjoy your posts; however, I don't know of your personal accomplishments or attempts at changing our system.

Some of us who are involved in this political war are cheerleaders--WHICH INCLUDES ME!

Some of us are political warriors who are actually working to get things accomplished. Elsensei, Big Toe, Hgreen, Dale, et allia are actually doing things which includes, for one person anyway, getting illegally arrested.

Where is the political campaign or judicial record of your work? Again, I am sure this is a case of IGNORANCE on my part and I apologize for that.

There are two types of leadership grants: Du jour and defacto. One is earned by actions performed and experience gained, the other is given by authoritarians who rule from above.

Some on this forum have earned a leadership role with their actions.

thanks,
markm
 
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