demnogis
Regular Member
Beg my pardon, but who are you again?Glad you chimed in...they don't listen to me...
I jest, I jest. It bothers me somewhat that for some reason people won't listen to a LEO who is very much PRO-liberty.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
Why no 4th-A law suit, for PC12031(e) violations ?
- Thread starter Robin47
- Start date
I jest, I jest. It bothers me somewhat that for some reason people won't listen to a LEO who is very much PRO-liberty.
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Beg my pardon, but who are you again?
I jest, I jest. It bothers me somewhat that for some reason people won't listen to a LEO who is very much PRO-liberty.
Some have also missed this:
Join Date Oct 2006
Cato has been an esteemed supporter and resource from the age when there was only one active California member who open carried on this board. There are few persons whom I respect more for the value of their counsel about open carry. To question his credibility on the basis of the apparent absence of brazen advocacy is highly misplaced. He in many ways has more to risk than some of us... dont let his caution be mistaken for obiesence to tyrannical influences.
Theseus
Founder's Club Member
Every time they detain us and conduct their fishing expeditions the more ground they lose on RAS for open carry.
Think about it. . . If they observe over a period of time that a man with a mask walking into a 7-Eleven is, more often than not, going to rob the place, then they have RAS to stop an individual wearing a mask going into a 7-Eleven. But with each detention of an open carrier with no laws being broken they are simply chipping away at their own RAS leeway as they now can't correlate a man open carrying with crime. See?
The reason there have been no charges is that the right situation hasn't presented itself. We haven't even established possession is a right outside the home. . . so how can we challenge the right to having a handgun be loaded outside the home?
I can tell you though that I am confident I have standing as 12031(e) was provided as a reason they detained me. . . We will see what options are available once I win my appeal.
cato
Newbie
Beg my pardon, but who are you again?
I jest, I jest. It bothers me somewhat that for some reason people won't listen to a LEO who is very much PRO-liberty.
LEO or not should factor little into the strength of the ideas I support. If it lends any level of credibility to those ideas in the eyes of just a portion of the fence sitters who visit here, I'll use that crutch. For all the others I have to rely entirely on logic and persuasion.
It has caused me no end of personal angst to speak against UOC, a baby which I believe I helped birth through my knowledge of the penal code and case law, but this carry battlefield is fluid and tactics have to be fluid to match that changing field until the carry right is protected by the courts from legislative abuse.
I just can't see large UOC media seeking events as strategically the right move at this time. Inspiring legislation which takes time and money to remove later and puts more people in legal jeopardy is not a positive tactic for the moment.
Seeing how the courts operate these past 4 years, for good and bad, I've come to trust Alan Gura's strategy and those of CGF/SAF to try to put functional arms in as many good hands as possible both CC, which would be THE most practicable daily mode of carry for THE most number of Californians, and also OC, my personal favorite, for those of us who find it possible to do so in our daily lives.
What I hope for is Vermont carry...which for us is a long way off if ever.
(And thanks for the back!)
C3 too!'e' is in the cross hairs. We won't hear the report however until the CGF trigger puller is already cycling the bolt handle and the target takes it's first hit.
!
Last edited:
chewy352
Regular Member
Cato,
Just curious. In the line of duty have you run into OCers? Do you/would you "e" check? Does your department have a policy that mandates "e" checks?
Just curious. In the line of duty have you run into OCers? Do you/would you "e" check? Does your department have a policy that mandates "e" checks?
xnetc9
Regular Member
i didn't know cato was a LEO...
chewy352
Regular Member
Ya it's been known for awhile but he doesn't really flaunt it. (not speaking for Cato, just my opinion/thoughts)
cato
Newbie
I'd have the biggest s**t eating grin you'd ever seen and you'd probably interpret the bear hug I'd deliver in the spirit of 2A love as a 4th A seizure.
No policy that I've seen although that lexipol crap gets updated automatically. I've seen some memos and the conversation at the briefing table was ' big deal the gun should be loaded anyway'. Most favor CC fewer OC. Ca LE will come around IMO pretty fast once the right is protected in some cleear form. The difficulty for most officers is all gun calls are bad because we only encounter BGs with guns.
No I haven't seen any UOCers while at work. I could not bring myself however do an e check. If I was ordered to...that would be a bad day.
Did encounter a CCWer who brandished in self defense once. We were able to help him get out of that with no issues thankfully. No report so the DA could not **** with him.
I have attended several UOC events years ago in SD back when I was encouraging pns25. Had a lot of fun back then. Sadly I understand now that it just wasn't our time.
Last edited:
Jared
Regular Member
Your lawyer seems to be a complete waste of money.
You do not need to have your civil rights violated multiple times to have a case, and there is no 20 minute rule. The rule is "due dilligence".
You may want to get a new lawyer/
coolusername2007
Regular Member
I thought you gave up on your appeal.
ConditionThree
State Pioneer
Careful,... your grin could be interpreted as one the cat who caught the canary would have.
Robin47
Regular Member
Don't judge to quick ! Cato is a good guy, been here from the beginning.
I remember when first getting on this site and wanting to get some Info and questions answered.
Cato was a big help then as was others also.
LEO or not don't make any difference, hes Pro-Gun and Pro 2-A. And that's the American way.
There are oath keepers who do remember whats right in the time of need !
The main thing is it will take all of us together, to continue the fight for "All" our rights to win !
Robin47
wildhawker
Regular Member
'e' is in the cross hairs. We won't hear the report however until the CGF trigger puller is already cycling the bolt handle and the target takes it's first hit.
Indeed it is, and your analysis is accurate.
chewy352
Regular Member
Well maybe I wont set up a meetup in your jurisdiction than lol. However a s**t eating grin and bear hug is preferable to 30 cops and a helo though. (Way to waste resources LAPD)That can be resolved by more training for the dispatchers. SD is a great example of that.
I hope that officers who are ordered to violate rights would fight department policy internally. I hope that day never finds you but at the same time who better to take up the fight.
I forget what the phrase is but it basically says that LEOs aren't supposed to just run around and arrest everyone for every violation of every law. If the violation was out of ignorance or by mistake they should take the time to educate the public. Of course I think Law Enforcement has gotten away from that do to the militarization of LEA and lack of legal knowledge by many LEOs.
Pullinshoots article in the Reader was what informed me of OC. I had just moved back home to SoCal from Washington where I have a CPL. I was very sickened by the fact that I would have little means to protect my family out in public. Now I do for the most part. I had made an agreement with my wife that I would not let OC disrupt our normal life. So there are many times that I do not carry as well.
I still disagree that it is not our time. I think we just don't have enough troops. To many CA gun owners are still wanting to hide their guns. If we even had half of CA gun owners supporting OC I don't think that the ban would be passed next year.
Theseus
Founder's Club Member
I don't want to get into it here and thread jack, but my appeal is on. We should see the DA's response on the 29th of Dec.
demnogis
Regular Member
Although, if you'd been eating s**t, I don't think you would be grinning.
When I started learning about OC, Cato was one of the big cats who I must credit for my cool demeanor and education on the subject. At the time, he was 100% spot on that most LEOs I would encounter in OC knew 2 things in respect of the law regarding open carry... Jack and s*** -- And Jack had left town. His insight kind of helped me prep on how to educate those willing to listen, and, well -- deal with those who wouldn't.
So I must ask, Cato. You think the Texas route will be more likely in CA than the AZ route towards carry?