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Thread: The media do not understand the guns and ammo of which they speak.

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    The media do not understand the guns and ammo of which they speak.

    Yesterday, Fox News was reporting on some Hollywood type who was murdered. (I don't know who, nor do I care.) The police had gone to pick up a suspect (I don't know who, nor do I care), and he shot himself.

    The reporter concluded that the suspect was probably not the killer, even though he claimed he was, because, for one thing, the real killer had to be a professional. She arrived at this conclusion due to the use of hollow-point ammo, ammo which she explained was designed to deform and do more damage.

    I (and surely most of you) buy hollow-points for self-defense ammo, precisely because it deforms and, as a result, gives up all of its energy inside the target, increasing the probability of stopping an assailant, and because it is highly unlikely to pass through the target, striking an innocent bystander.

    I am not a professional killer. As of yet, I have killed no one. I hope I never do. I certainly never will do so for pay. However, my routine load is hollow-point.

    Reporter, get your facts straight.

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    Regular Member Walt_Kowalski's Avatar
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    That is just like how the press often uses 'automatic' to describe firearms that are clearly semi-auto.

    If it makes the sheeple scared, then it will sell.. good press right?

    maybe they can combine the words 'automatic hollow point AK-47 (because everything is an AK-47)'
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good"
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I think I saw something on this over the weekend, though I can't be certain it was the same event. The reporter mentioned hollow point bullets which are banned in many states. Gee, does that sound as though he has an agenda? Also Cyril Wecht, a well-known forensic pathologist, was interviewed and he described hollow points as bullets designed to enlarge themselves after entering the body and then start breaking apart. Another fallacy. He was describing frangible loads and yes it is true that some hollow point bullet designs do shed various parts, a lot don't which makes his statement an error.

    The thing is, the general public picks up on this and accepts if for fact because those giving the reports are viewed as having a deeper and more scientific and intimate knowledge about which they speak.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Are there States in which HP are illegal? That would be good to know for interstate travel since, as I have mentioned, my routine load is HP.

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    they are legal in CA, so it would be safe to assume they are legal everywhere....
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Not NJ apparently

    These conditions for use and transport of hollow nose ammunition are consistent with the legislative intent to restrict the use of such ammunition to a limited number of people...

    N.J.S.A 2C:39-3f(1) limits the possession of hollow nose ammunition. However, there is a general exception that allows for the purchase of this ammunition but restricts the possession of it to specified locations. This exception provides that:

    (2) Nothing is sub section f (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land . . . [N.J.S.A 26:39-3g (2)].

    Thus a person may purchase this ammunition and keep it within the confines of his property. Sub section f (1) further exempts from the prohibited possession of hollow nose ammunition "persons engaged in activities pursuant to N.J.S.A 2C:39-6f. . . ."
    N.J.S.A 26:39-3f. (1).

    Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:

    1.A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
    2.A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
    3.A person going directly to a target range, and;
    4.A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting exhibitions."

    http://www.state.nj.us/njsp/about/fire_hollow.html
    Last edited by oldbanger; 12-06-2010 at 12:04 PM.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    Yesterday, Fox News was reporting on some Hollywood type who was murdered. (I don't know who, nor do I care.) The police had gone to pick up a suspect (I don't know who, nor do I care), and he shot himself.

    The reporter concluded that the suspect was probably not the killer, even though he claimed he was, because, for one thing, the real killer had to be a professional. She arrived at this conclusion due to the use of hollow-point ammo, ammo which she explained was designed to deform and do more damage.

    I (and surely most of you) buy hollow-points for self-defense ammo, precisely because it deforms and, as a result, gives up all of its energy inside the target, increasing the probability of stopping an assailant, and because it is highly unlikely to pass through the target, striking an innocent bystander.

    I am not a professional killer. As of yet, I have killed no one. I hope I never do. I certainly never will do so for pay. However, my routine load is hollow-point.

    Reporter, get your facts straight.
    Sadly, "reporters," "journalists" and "analysts" these days are chosen for their "Q rating" (how pretty they are), how well they can read what someone else has written on the teleprompter, and how congenial and caring they seem to their collegues and the audience. They don't really have to know ANYthing about the subject on which they are speaking.

    Hmmmm..... kinda sounds like the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    they are legal in CA, so it would be safe to assume they are legal everywhere....
    As kittyhawk63 opined: Expect anything...assume nothing.
    The words of a tyrant: “I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.”

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

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    Regular Member sFe's Avatar
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    Who would've thought fox news wouldn't know the facts and would try to induce fear.
    For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring. — Carl Sagan

    When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours - Stephen Roberts

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Hmmmm..... kinda sounds like the current occupant at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...
    More like most occupants of that residence and 90% of other occupants of the Capitol building.

    This sounds like a report I heard that a round must have been "armor piercing" because it was able to go through the drywall separating some cheap apartments.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sFe View Post
    Who would've thought...
    This thread is about the media not knowing about guns and ammo. A specific example of a story from a specific network was used to illustrate the point. If you have some tangential political agenda that is not related to OC, please do not derail this thread, but instead start your own thread in the appropriate area. May I suggest the Social Lounge? Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbanger View Post
    Not NJ apparently...[/URL]
    OK, so I can't carry my ammo in NJ. That's alright; I wouldn't be able to carry there anyway.

    Thanks for the info.

    Anyone else know of States that bar HPs?

    Never mind, that would drag this off-topic. I'll start another thread.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure it had more to do with the tight grouping of the shots among other factors that made them conclude that it was a professional hitman.


    Oh the irony in this thread.

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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    As kittyhawk63 opined: Expect anything...assume nothing.
    It was a local affiliate I would bet.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt_Kowalski View Post

    maybe they can combine the words 'automatic hollow point AK-47 (because everything is an AK-47)'
    Except for, you know...an ACTUAL AK-47. Those they call OOZYS.

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    I shoot ball ammo for target practice and carry JHP's at all other times.

    This is how most media places see things.....but there are, of course exceptions.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    OK, so I can't carry my ammo in NJ. That's alright; I wouldn't be able to carry there anyway.

    Thanks for the info.

    Anyone else know of States that bar HPs?

    Never mind, that would drag this off-topic. I'll start another thread.
    No states bar HP ammo. Some, like the PDR of NJ, regulate its transportation, but not possession or use for lawful purposes.

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    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luv_jeeps View Post
    I shoot ball ammo for target practice and carry JHP's at all other times.

    This is how most media places see things.....but there are, of course exceptions.
    That is priceless!

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    I was just diggin up that picture to post it. lol

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    Regular Member Tomas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I am not a professional killer. As of yet, I have killed no one. I hope I never do. I certainly never will do so for pay. However, my routine load is hollow-point.
    I've routinely carried hollow points or frangible ammo for 40 years because of their effectiveness and relative safety (less "over penetration").

    I don't picture myself as a "professional killer" as I have not killed or even shot at anyone during those 40 years of personal carry.

    HOWEVER, using your criteria, Eye, of being paid to kill folks, maybe I am. In the four years prior to the start of that 40 year personal carry I was in the military, and for the last year of that four, I was in a war zone, being paid, and sure as Hell trying to kill the folks shooting at me. Perhaps I did. All I know is they stopped shooting. I guess I may be a professional killer.

    Anyway, most news presenters do not have personal knowledge about the items they report. They take information gathered by others and arranged in suitable sized bites by yet others, and present it to us because they either look good presenting it or sound confident. They do not generally validate anything.

    In reality, their knowledge generally extends only to how to look and sound knowledgeable and intelligent to the average viewer/listener. Their specialty is mouthing whatever words they are given to mouth.

    (...and yes, I have worked in both radio and television news at times in my nefarious past - usually as a tech, but for a short while as a presenter.)
    No tyranny is so irksome as petty tyranny: The officious demands of policemen, government clerks, and electromechanical gadgets. -- Edward Abbey

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    I like that guide to firearms funny yet SO TRUE. Unless said journalist is a member of the gun culture they will probable be IGNORANT of all things guns.... so then they ask the expert...a anti gun liberal gun hater for the facts. does any of this surprise anyone ?
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

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    Regular Member oldbanger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    ...I (and surely most of you) buy hollow-points for self-defense ammo, precisely because it deforms and, as a result, gives up all of its energy inside the target, increasing the probability of stopping an assailant, and because it is highly unlikely to pass through the target, striking an innocent bystander...
    Cite please ?

    ...ballistics expert Leading Senior Constable Raymond Vincent told the inquest into his death the five bullets that hit Tyler Cassidy passed through his 60-kilogram (132 lb) frame. The officer told the court he considers the fully jacketed, hollow-point bullets "unreliable" because they fail to transfer maximum energy into the target..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...02/3083242.htm

    Tyler was hit five times - once in the right arm and knee and twice in the right thigh. The fatal wound was a gunshot wound to his chest. (which also passed through)

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad-app...-1225965443511

    I'm Not An Expert, But I Stayed At A Holiday Inn Express Last Night!

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    holiday inn...haven't heard that one in a while.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldbanger View Post
    Cite please ?

    ...ballistics expert Leading Senior Constable Raymond Vincent told the inquest into his death the five bullets that hit Tyler Cassidy passed through his 60-kilogram (132 lb) frame. The officer told the court he considers the fully jacketed, hollow-point bullets "unreliable" because they fail to transfer maximum energy into the target..

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...02/3083242.htm

    Tyler was hit five times - once in the right arm and knee and twice in the right thigh. The fatal wound was a gunshot wound to his chest. (which also passed through)

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/ipad-app...-1225965443511

    I'm Not An Expert, But I Stayed At A Holiday Inn Express Last Night!
    There is no magic bullet sir..

    A HP bullet has a better chance to expand and transfer more energy to target.

    Shouldn't need an expert to point that out.

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    I am not talking about jacketed hollow-point. I am specifically talking about hollow-point.

    Hollow-points have a much lower propensity to pass through a body (although it is possible, usually doing a lot of damage on the way out) than non-hollow-points. Any bullet that does not exit a body WILL impart all of its energy on the body it becomes a part of. Period. That is simple physics.

    If you ask for a cite on this (especially on a gun site), you might as well ask for a cite for a claim that Washington was our first president elected under our Constitution.

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