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Thread: Troy Police Department Incident.

  1. #1
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Troy Police Department Incident.

    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  2. #2
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Ooooh the big threat! "WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COME BACK!"

    What a power hungry clown!

    Oh by the way nice job!!! You kept it rather humorous at least IMOP!!
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 12-06-2010 at 06:08 PM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheSzerdi's Avatar
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    Love the implied threat when he refused to give ID. "We'll know who you are tomorrow when you bring in the paperwork!!!" lol

    Well handled. Good job.

  4. #4
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Luckily I remembered in the heat of everything that I could mail it. I'll tell you what, handled well or not, I was shakin' in my boots. That's about the closest thing I've had to a police encounter, and when I'm INSIDE THE STATION, it gets ramped up a notch or twelve.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  5. #5
    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malignity View Post

    This is the first video I can't get to work. All I see is the police logo. No picture of incident. Any suggestions?
    The words of a tyrant: “I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.”

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    its just audio file uploaded to youtube with a nice picture of their logo so you aren't staring at a black screen while listening.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    well handled, good job.

    Mail it lol that will really piss em off.


    Quote Originally Posted by malignity View Post
    Luckily I remembered in the heat of everything that I could mail it. I'll tell you what, handled well or not, I was shakin' in my boots. That's about the closest thing I've had to a police encounter, and when I'm INSIDE THE STATION, it gets ramped up a notch or twelve.
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  8. #8
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Nicely done.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Vmaxx's Avatar
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    I can't seam to find the link?

  10. #10
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Lets remember this lady didn't sound like a LEO, just a "receptionist", maybe you can clarify this for us. I have OCed in the Troy Police station at least once and the Clawson Police station at least a dozen times, always noticed nothing ever said. Clawson and Troy Police Departments are connected, they share dispatch, back each-other-up, share a court, and other things. They are not connected physically but only two and a quarter miles apart. I have never had a problem in Clawson or Troy, I believe the actual LEOs are quite informed. At the Clawson desk it is normally manned by an actual LEO.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
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    God Bless

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    cop: Would you like to talk to a police officer about that?

    man in video: There's nothing to talk about.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran ComradeV's Avatar
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    I don't understand why people want to make problems. If someone is going about their business peaceably why do people have to interject their opinions when they seem to not know precisely what they are talking about?

  13. #13
    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    its just audio file uploaded to youtube with a nice picture of their logo so you aren't staring at a black screen while listening.
    Thanks Coded-Dude. I thought my computer had turned politically correct on me.
    The words of a tyrant: “I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.”

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Malignity called me right after this incident. I called and spoke with an officer at the station. The officer I spoke with was very respectful and was eager to help. The woman at the counter was in fact a civilian. I'm sure this was a case of a civilian receptionist who was not properly trained on the legality of civilian OC. I do not think it will be as issue beyond that. I am waiting for a return call from the officer in charge tonight. If I don't get a call tonight, I will call again tomorrow. Once I speak to a "higher up", I will relay that info here.
    Last edited by scot623; 12-06-2010 at 08:45 PM.

  15. #15
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Thanks for the update scot623!
    Last edited by autosurgeon; 12-06-2010 at 08:59 PM.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    nicely done
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  17. #17
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Malignity called me right after this incident. I called and spoke with an officer at the station. The officer I spoke with was very respectful and was eager to help. The woman at the counter was in fact a civilian. I'm sure this was a case of a civilian receptionist who was not properly trained on the legality of civilian OC. I do not think it will be as issue beyond that. I am waiting for a return call from the officer in charge tonight. If I don't get a call tonight, I will call again tomorrow. Once I speak to a "higher up", I will relay that info here.
    While you are at it, you might want to let them know about MCL 123.1102 and how some of their firearms ordinances *might* not be in line with State Law and/or are completely worthless.

    http://troymi.gov/CodeAndCharter/Code/CH098.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by Troy Ordinance 98.13.01
    Transport or Possess Firearms. No person shall transport or possess a firearm in a vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both.

    Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to transport or possess firearms.
    IMO, Worthless. All persons not restricted from possessing firearms fall into the Exception. In addition, this appears to not match State Law (less restrictive for pistols, more restrictive for firearms other than pistols), so I believe it is a violation of MCL 123.1102.

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227d

    Quote Originally Posted by 750.227d
    Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

    Sec. 227d.

    (1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Taken down.
    (b) Enclosed in a case.
    (c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
    (d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

    (2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.
    Quote Originally Posted by 98.13.02
    Firearms in Public. No person shall carry a firearm in any public place unless it is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and in a case. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both.

    Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to carry firearms.
    IMO, Worthless. I believe all persons not restricted from possessing and carrying pistols fall into the Exception.

  18. #18
    Regular Member MarineSgt's Avatar
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    Baptism by fire! Good job handling her on your toes, respectfully even.
    Someone who can't be trusted to walk free in public with a firearm shouldn't be walking around free.

  19. #19
    Regular Member kryptonian's Avatar
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    my favorite part was "...there's nothing to talk about". this summer i called milford police about OC at milford memories and a civilian dispatcher was answering my questions. she said OC wasn't a good idea but legally i could but can't go into the beer tent. told her that actually i could but i don't drink so i won't. misinformed. people that don't know the law are almost understandable. people who THINK they know the law are the dangerous. law enforcement or municipal personnel who don't know, think they know or lie about the law in my opinion are borderline criminals.
    thanks scot623 for the follow up. you play the game well and hold them to the truth of law.
    malignity - my few confrontations were never completely handled well enough i thought later. go over it and over it and slap myself with 'what i should have said' lines. we should have LEO flash cards with the perfect answers on the back for each question or statement. maybe we should have a workshop with pretend confrontations. i was LEO before. i'll do it. take away the stage fright. maybe script some confrontations for instructional video.
    you held your ground and didn't waiver. good job from me if that means anything. i would go back and hand her the MSP legal updates and the MCL 123.1102 printouts. hit her with a "here so you will know your job a little better until they can get you properly trained.
    on a serious note the troy police dept had a young civilian employee who was the daughter of i think someone in the police department who was killed in a wreck by a drunk driver after her mother called to remind her to pick something up. she was killed going to do that. heartbreaking and she was given a full police style funeral with honor guard. very impressive and deserved. one of their lieutenants told me they have a statistically odd high number of drunk driving fatalities almost all of which started somewhere else and sadly ended in their city.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    people that don't know the law are almost understandable. people who THINK they know the law are the dangerous. law enforcement or municipal personnel who don't know, think they know or lie about the law in my opinion are borderline criminals.
    I recently spoke to a well respected lawyer in the Firearm community. He told me the sad thing about the law is the law isn't always what the text of the law says. People try to find all sorts of unique interpretations that basically negate the law. This is very sad, but it's the corrupt system we live in.

    Ergo, even if you follow the letter of the law, you can still find yourself convicted of a crime.

    My heart is truly heavy over this sad fact, but I'm uncertain what we can do -- other than diligently try to elect prosecutors and judges who will respect the letter of the law, even if they do not like or agree with it. Any suggestions?

    A buddy in college once told me: There is a lamp post for every lawyer and politician. My Libertarian beliefs keep me having faith that some day we will have a non-violent intellectual revolution. I'd like to think with the recent election, it is at hand -- but I have seen the GOP get elected before and end up doing nothing to reduce the size of Government or make it respect the law or Constitution.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  21. #21
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    Nicely done. I would send them an MOC LEO packet anyhow.

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran RabbiVJ's Avatar
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    a couple of guys i went to High School with are Troy PD...ill try to see if i can get anything out of em...
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  23. #23
    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RabbiVJ View Post
    a couple of guys i went to High School with are Troy PD...ill try to see if i can get anything out of em...
    I'm just curious who the lady was that told me that. I didn't think to ask.

    If you find out, let me know. Civilian, probably around 50, blond hair down to the shoulders or so. I don't need any reprocussions or anything, I just don't want it to happen again to me or anyone else. I was there around 5pm. She was behind the counter right as you walk in.
    All opinions posted on opencarry.org are my own, and do not necessarily reflect the views of opencarry.org or Michigan Open Carry Inc.

  24. #24
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    Angry Troy PD

    That woman is a B*tch. I've lived in Troy for over 30 years and every time I go to register a new gun she gives me nothing but attitude. She even once refused to register my AK underfolder because she said that it was not a handgun, but then tried to tell me that I had to register my black powder pistol. It took intervention from a leutinant to get my gun registered and then she still gave me attitude about how nobody needs a gun like that. I have filed quite a few complaints on her and yet she still has her job. I guess thats my tax dollars hard at work. I have to go next week to turn in my registration for my new gun and I will make sure that I am wearing my double cowboy rig just to piss her off.

  25. #25
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    Outstanding work Malignity, way to keep a cool head.

    She said, "...Well we have the public in here..."

    What did she mean by that? She refered to you as if you were some alien life form who landed his spaceship in the parking lot and sauntered in the lobby OCing a ray gun on his hip. You are part of that very public in which she refers, how is such a concept so easily lost on her?

    It amazes me how some people's logic circuits begin misfiring when they see a gun on someone who isn't wearing a uniform.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

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