Troy Police Department Incident.

[video=youtube;DsJukDFnUXM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsJukDFnUXM[/video]

Ooooh the big threat! "WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU COME BACK!"

What a power hungry clown!:cuss:

Oh by the way nice job!!! You kept it rather humorous at least IMOP!!

Love the implied threat when he refused to give ID. "We'll know who you are tomorrow when you bring in the paperwork!!!" lol

Well handled. Good job.

Luckily I remembered in the heat of everything that I could mail it. I'll tell you what, handled well or not, I was shakin' in my boots. That's about the closest thing I've had to a police encounter, and when I'm INSIDE THE STATION, it gets ramped up a notch or twelve.

malignity said:

[video=youtube;DsJukDFnUXM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsJukDFnUXM[/video]

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This is the first video I can't get to work. All I see is the police logo. No picture of incident. Any suggestions?

its just audio file uploaded to youtube with a nice picture of their logo so you aren't staring at a black screen while listening.

well handled, good job.

Mail it lol that will really piss em off.

malignity said:

Luckily I remembered in the heat of everything that I could mail it. I'll tell you what, handled well or not, I was shakin' in my boots. That's about the closest thing I've had to a police encounter, and when I'm INSIDE THE STATION, it gets ramped up a notch or twelve.

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Nicely done.

I can't seam to find the link?

Lets remember this lady didn't sound like a LEO, just a "receptionist", maybe you can clarify this for us. I have OCed in the Troy Police station at least once and the Clawson Police station at least a dozen times, always noticed nothing ever said. Clawson and Troy Police Departments are connected, they share dispatch, back each-other-up, share a court, and other things. They are not connected physically but only two and a quarter miles apart. I have never had a problem in Clawson or Troy, I believe the actual LEOs are quite informed. At the Clawson desk it is normally manned by an actual LEO.

cop: Would you like to talk to a police officer about that?

man in video: There's nothing to talk about.

I don't understand why people want to make problems. If someone is going about their business peaceably why do people have to interject their opinions when they seem to not know precisely what they are talking about?

Coded-Dude said:

its just audio file uploaded to youtube with a nice picture of their logo so you aren't staring at a black screen while listening.

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Thanks Coded-Dude. I thought my computer had turned politically correct on me.

Malignity called me right after this incident. I called and spoke with an officer at the station. The officer I spoke with was very respectful and was eager to help. The woman at the counter was in fact a civilian. I'm sure this was a case of a civilian receptionist who was not properly trained on the legality of civilian OC. I do not think it will be as issue beyond that. I am waiting for a return call from the officer in charge tonight. If I don't get a call tonight, I will call again tomorrow. Once I speak to a "higher up", I will relay that info here.

Thanks for the update scot623!

nicely done

scot623 said:

Malignity called me right after this incident. I called and spoke with an officer at the station. The officer I spoke with was very respectful and was eager to help. The woman at the counter was in fact a civilian. I'm sure this was a case of a civilian receptionist who was not properly trained on the legality of civilian OC. I do not think it will be as issue beyond that. I am waiting for a return call from the officer in charge tonight. If I don't get a call tonight, I will call again tomorrow. Once I speak to a "higher up", I will relay that info here.

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While you are at it, you might want to let them know about MCL 123.1102 and how some of their firearms ordinances *might* not be in line with State Law and/or are completely worthless.

http://troymi.gov/CodeAndCharter/Code/CH098.pdf

Troy Ordinance 98.13.01 said:

Transport or Possess Firearms. No person shall transport or possess a firearm in a vehicle unless the firearm is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and carried in the luggage compartment of the vehicle. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both.

Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to transport or possess firearms.

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IMO, Worthless. All persons not restricted from possessing firearms fall into the Exception. In addition, this appears to not match State Law (less restrictive for pistols, more restrictive for firearms other than pistols), so I believe it is a violation of MCL 123.1102.

http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-227d

750.227d said:

Transporting or possessing firearm in or upon motor vehicle or self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel; conditions; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.

Sec. 227d.

(1) Except as otherwise permitted by law, a person shall not transport or possess in or upon a motor vehicle or any self-propelled vehicle designed for land travel a firearm, other than a pistol, unless the firearm is unloaded and is 1 or more of the following:

(a) Taken down.
(b) Enclosed in a case.
(c) Carried in the trunk of the vehicle.
(d) Inaccessible from the interior of the vehicle.

(2) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days, or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.

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98.13.02 said:

Firearms in Public. No person shall carry a firearm in any public place unless it is unloaded in both barrel and magazine and in a case. A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than 90 days or by a fine of not more than $500, or both.

Exception. This section does not apply to persons authorized by federal or state law to carry firearms.

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IMO, Worthless. I believe all persons not restricted from possessing and carrying pistols fall into the Exception.

Baptism by fire! Good job handling her on your toes, respectfully even. :banana:

my favorite part was "...there's nothing to talk about". this summer i called milford police about OC at milford memories and a civilian dispatcher was answering my questions. she said OC wasn't a good idea but legally i could but can't go into the beer tent. told her that actually i could but i don't drink so i won't. misinformed. people that don't know the law are almost understandable. people who THINK they know the law are the dangerous. law enforcement or municipal personnel who don't know, think they know or lie about the law in my opinion are borderline criminals.
thanks scot623 for the follow up. you play the game well and hold them to the truth of law.
malignity - my few confrontations were never completely handled well enough i thought later. go over it and over it and slap myself with 'what i should have said' lines. we should have LEO flash cards with the perfect answers on the back for each question or statement. maybe we should have a workshop with pretend confrontations. i was LEO before. i'll do it. take away the stage fright. maybe script some confrontations for instructional video.
you held your ground and didn't waiver. good job from me if that means anything. i would go back and hand her the MSP legal updates and the MCL 123.1102 printouts. hit her with a "here so you will know your job a little better until they can get you properly trained.
on a serious note the troy police dept had a young civilian employee who was the daughter of i think someone in the police department who was killed in a wreck by a drunk driver after her mother called to remind her to pick something up. she was killed going to do that. heartbreaking and she was given a full police style funeral with honor guard. very impressive and deserved. one of their lieutenants told me they have a statistically odd high number of drunk driving fatalities almost all of which started somewhere else and sadly ended in their city.

kryptonian said:

people that don't know the law are almost understandable. people who THINK they know the law are the dangerous. law enforcement or municipal personnel who don't know, think they know or lie about the law in my opinion are borderline criminals.

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I recently spoke to a well respected lawyer in the Firearm community. He told me the sad thing about the law is the law isn't always what the text of the law says. People try to find all sorts of unique interpretations that basically negate the law. This is very sad, but it's the corrupt system we live in.

Ergo, even if you follow the letter of the law, you can still find yourself convicted of a crime. :banghead:

My heart is truly heavy over this sad fact, but I'm uncertain what we can do -- other than diligently try to elect prosecutors and judges who will respect the letter of the law, even if they do not like or agree with it. Any suggestions?

A buddy in college once told me: There is a lamp post for every lawyer and politician. My Libertarian beliefs keep me having faith that some day we will have a non-violent intellectual revolution. I'd like to think with the recent election, it is at hand -- but I have seen the GOP get elected before and end up doing nothing to reduce the size of Government or make it respect the law or Constitution.