Troy Police Department Incident.

Nicely done. I would send them an MOC LEO packet anyhow.

a couple of guys i went to High School with are Troy PD...ill try to see if i can get anything out of em...

RabbiVJ said:

a couple of guys i went to High School with are Troy PD...ill try to see if i can get anything out of em...

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I'm just curious who the lady was that told me that. I didn't think to ask.

If you find out, let me know. Civilian, probably around 50, blond hair down to the shoulders or so. I don't need any reprocussions or anything, I just don't want it to happen again to me or anyone else. I was there around 5pm. She was behind the counter right as you walk in.

Troy PD

That woman is a B*tch. I've lived in Troy for over 30 years and every time I go to register a new gun she gives me nothing but attitude. She even once refused to register my AK underfolder because she said that it was not a handgun, but then tried to tell me that I had to register my black powder pistol. It took intervention from a leutinant to get my gun registered and then she still gave me attitude about how nobody needs a gun like that. I have filed quite a few complaints on her and yet she still has her job. I guess thats my tax dollars hard at work. I have to go next week to turn in my registration for my new gun and I will make sure that I am wearing my double cowboy rig just to piss her off.

Outstanding work Malignity, way to keep a cool head.

She said, "...Well we have the public in here..."

What did she mean by that? She refered to you as if you were some alien life form who landed his spaceship in the parking lot and sauntered in the lobby OCing a ray gun on his hip. You are part of that very public in which she refers, how is such a concept so easily lost on her?

It amazes me how some people's logic circuits begin misfiring when they see a gun on someone who isn't wearing a uniform.

I have also complained to them about the waiting period they impose on purchace permits, it takes approx 10 days to get a permit from them.

This morning I spoke with one woefully misinformed officer and a very professional Lieutenant Redmond. After explaing the incident to the first officer, he proceeds to tell me Troy has an ordinance banning firearm carry in all public buildings!! Whaaat??? I calmly explained to him that I'm sure his is mistaken and asked to speak to someone in command. Lieutenant Redmond was very respectful and will be looking into both of the issues. First being the Malignity incident, second being this 'ordinance' the officer told me about. We discussed 123.1102 and MCRGO v. Ferndale, but knowing his limitations, said he will be contacting the city attorney for clarification. He even said he is sure I'm right, because I wouldn't have called him if I wasn't sure about my facts! So I will wait until Monday for a return call.

HOWUDOINGOOD said:

I have also complained to them about the waiting period they impose on purchace permits, it takes approx 10 days to get a permit from them.

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That's definitely not good and should be addressed in the future if possible. By law, PP's are to be issued on the spot. I had the same problem with Center Line PD years ago. Needless to say, I just went and got my CPL after that. When you get the itch for a new gun, there ain't waiting no ten days man. :banana:

scot623 said:

This morning I spoke with one woefully misinformed officer and a very professional Lieutenant Redmond. After explaing the incident to the first officer, he proceeds to tell me Troy has an ordinance banning firearm carry in all public buildings!! Whaaat??? I calmly explained to him that I'm sure his is mistaken and asked to speak to someone in command. Lieutenant Redmond was very respectful and will be looking into both of the issues. First being the Malignity incident, second being this 'ordinance' the officer told me about. We discussed 123.1102 and MCRGO v. Ferndale, but knowing his limitations, said he will be contacting the city attorney for clarification. He even said he is sure I'm right, because I wouldn't have called him if I wasn't sure about my facts! So I will wait until Monday for a return call.

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And of course, and this goes without saying, thanks a million man. I almost feel like my hands are bound after the incident like I was saying. I really don't want to get on anyone's sh!t list, and to have others sort of take over makes everyone safe.

I've already received a phone call back from the Lieutenant! Although he hasn't heard back from the city attorney, he did speak to (his words) 'our resident experts who know these laws as good as you do!(thanks for props!) He was told there is no ordinance banning firearm carry(I'm sure the officer he told me there was is getting chewed out right now!) and the woman at the desk during the Malignity incident was wrong. She will be spoken to when she comes back to work later this week. The Leiutenant said he will call me after he 'straightens her out'. Seems all will be right with Troy after all. With command officers like Lieutenant Redmond, I'm not surprised Troy is such a safe, well thought of city. He really went out of his way to find us answers to these questions and is quick to resolve the problem. Kudos.

Cities and Departments will have problems from time to time. It's great to see Troy PD step up and quickly resolve everything. My thanks to them for their timely response, and to Scot623 for contacting them.

Good job, Rob!

Props to Lieutenant Redmond. Is human cloning feasible yet? We need more professional officers like that.

Navy Diver said:

That woman is a B*tch. I've lived in Troy for over 30 years and every time I go to register a new gun she gives me nothing but attitude. She even once refused to register my AK underfolder because she said that it was not a handgun, but then tried to tell me that I had to register my black powder pistol. It took intervention from a leutinant to get my gun registered and then she still gave me attitude about how nobody needs a gun like that. I have filed quite a few complaints on her and yet she still has her job. I guess thats my tax dollars hard at work. I have to go next week to turn in my registration for my new gun and I will make sure that I am wearing my double cowboy rig just to piss her off.

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WELCOME to OCDO!

cmdr_iceman71 said:

Outstanding work Malignity, way to keep a cool head.

She said, "...Well we have the public in here..."

What did she mean by that? She refered to you as if you were some alien life form who landed his spaceship in the parking lot and sauntered in the lobby OCing a ray gun on his hip. You are part of that very public in which she refers, how is such a concept so easily lost on her?

It amazes me how some people's logic circuits begin misfiring when they see a gun on someone who isn't wearing a uniform.

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it could happen,,,,,aliens in fact do exist.

HOWUDOINGOOD said:

I have also complained to them about the waiting period they impose on purchace permits, it takes approx 10 days to get a permit from them.

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theres that "all due dilligence" thing working for ya,,,,

Follow up on this...

scot623 said:

I've already received a phone call back from the Lieutenant! Although he hasn't heard back from the city attorney, he did speak to (his words) 'our resident experts who know these laws as good as you do!(thanks for props!) He was told there is no ordinance banning firearm carry(I'm sure the officer he told me there was is getting chewed out right now!) and the woman at the desk during the Malignity incident was wrong. She will be spoken to when she comes back to work later this week. The Lieutenant said he will call me after he 'straightens her out'. Seems all will be right with Troy after all. With command officers like Lieutenant Redmond, I'm not surprised Troy is such a safe, well thought of city. He really went out of his way to find us answers to these questions and is quick to resolve the problem. Kudos.

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We (generally speaking for the group) spend a lot of following up on problems / bad encounters / etc but we need to remember to follow up with kudos as well.
Be sure to write a glowing commendation for Lt. Redmond and get it sent off to his supervisor or the Chief.

As to the receptionist; I hope he does "straighten her out". It is a (semi) free country and she gets to have her own beliefs, no problem with that, but as the interface to the public and representative for the department, she needs more training. Especially as her opinions can / will be taken as official policy / law.

Keep up the good work!

malignity said:

By law, PP's are to be issued on the spot.

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Cite?

The law says that PPs will be issued with "due speed and diligence"....whatever that means.

28.422

(3) The commissioner or chief of police of a city, township, or village police department that issues licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols, or his or her duly authorized deputy, or the sheriff or his or her duly authorized deputy, in the parts of a county not included within a city, township, or village having an organized police department, in discharging the duty to issue licenses shall with due speed and diligence issue licenses to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistols to qualified applicants residing within the city, village, township, or county, as applicable unless he or she has probable cause to believe that the applicant would be a threat to himself or herself or to other individuals, or would commit an offense with the pistol that would violate a law of this or another state or of the United States. An applicant is qualified if all of the following circumstances exist:

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Bronson

Okay, considering the background check is instant, is 10 days due speed? Doesn't sound like it to me.

malignity said:

Okay, considering the background check is instant, is 10 days due speed? Doesn't sound like it to me.

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As I've said elsewhere, go in wired, get them recorded blatantly not knowing what they're talking about. Not OCing while doing this is best, because it will help assure they don't figure you know what you are doing. At this stage only, beat up street type clothes are also good, as it will aid in making sure they don't take you seriously.

Next, FOIA request all of their documented rules on registering pistols. When you have them on tape violating the law, there is really no way they can win at this. Either they will be caught lying, or they will hand over proof of illegal policies.

After you acquire the FOIA, assess it, and make copies of it, go in and politely ask to speak to the chief or a lieutenant, and have with you copies of the laws that say they are wrong. If they refuse to correct things swiftly, email or write the city council, or show up to a meeting, your choice. Demand they fix things. If they don't, the next step is the AG's office, and they will take care of it. The AG's office has told me over the phone to do exactly this (other than they didn't encourage recording covertly, but come on, that's just common sense), and as a matter of fact, so has Dean Greenblatt.

Perhaps the most important thing is to go out of your way to be polite and professional in attire, demeanor and in your written documents, as this is just about the only way to be taken seriously by agents of the government.

It would perhaps be good to set up an OCDO "task force" to correct this waiting period/mandatory notarization fee crap everywhere it exists. Way too many PD's have been getting away with it for way too long.

malignity said:

Okay, considering the background check is instant, is 10 days due speed? Doesn't sound like it to me.

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I was only pointing out that your assertion that PPs must be issued on the spot was, unfortunately, incorrect.

Bronson

Bronson said:

I was only pointing out that your assertion that PPs must be issued on the spot was, unfortunately, incorrect.

Bronson

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As Granholm pointed out, when there are no cited definitions for certain words in certain laws, dictionary definitions must be referred to.

In this case, "due" "speed" and "dilligence" must be looked up. I don't feel like doing this, as I already have in the past, but you will have an extremely hard time finding definitions of those words which implicate anything other than they must be ball bustingly busy not to take care of it immediately, and regardless need to get it taken care of as soon as possible. This was exclusively what I found.

Another way to put it is that the word "due" is pretty clearly understood. No law authorizes PD's to jerk permit seekers around, and because of preemption, nothing more than "speed and dilligence" is due.

I have talked this over with 2 lawyers, many folks from this forum, and whoever it was who answered the phone at the AG's office. All agreed with my assessment, as eventually did the city council and PD in question.

Keep the updates coming & GREAT JOB GUYS!

Should something go sideways and Troy backtracks on this, I will be happy to be part of a group to appear at their PD or City Council should the need arise.