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Thread: Surry County Prohibition on Loaded firearms

  1. #1
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Surry County Prohibition on Loaded firearms

    Wow, Surry County, get ready for the hurricane. The prohibition on loaded handguns is clearly preempted!

    Surry County, Virginia
    Sec. 20-66. - Restrictions on loaded weapons.

    Except as otherwise provided by law, no person shall have in his possession or under his control, or have in any vehicle in which he may be in charge or have in control, any loaded shotgun or rifle or other firearm while he or such vehicle is upon any public street in the county, or, while either is unlawfully upon the land of another; provided, that law enforcement officers, and members of the armed forces of the United States or the military forces of the state when acting under competent orders, shall be excepted; and provided, further, that such person who shall be able to show at the time apprehended that his possession of the loaded rifle or shotgun was required or reasonably necessary, under the then appearing circumstances, for the protection of his person or family from bodily injury or his property from serious damage by another shall also be excepted.
    Link: http://library.municode.com/index.as...eName=Virginia

    Italics are mine.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Wow, Surry County, get ready for the hurricane. The prohibition on loaded handguns is clearly preempted!

    Surry County, Virginia
    Sec. 20-66. - Restrictions on loaded weapons.

    Except as otherwise provided by law, no person shall have in his possession or under his control, or have in any vehicle in which he may be in charge or have in control, any loaded shotgun or rifle or other firearm while he or such vehicle is upon any public street in the county, or, while either is unlawfully upon the land of another; provided, that law enforcement officers, and members of the armed forces of the United States or the military forces of the state when acting under competent orders, shall be excepted; and provided, further, that such person who shall be able to show at the time apprehended that his possession of the loaded rifle or shotgun was required or reasonably necessary, under the then appearing circumstances, for the protection of his person or family from bodily injury or his property from serious damage by another shall also be excepted.
    Link: http://library.municode.com/index.as...eName=Virginia

    Italics are mine.
    There time is coming!!!!

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    From the end of the paragraph in the Municode linked above we have their cite to authority as:

    State law reference—Authority to so provide, Code of Virginia, § 14.2-915.2.

    However, a quick look at the Code of Virginia Table of Contents reveals that there is no longer a Title 14 in the Code of Virginia.

    Apparently this ordinance is quite outdated. No doubt, the reference should be to

    § 15.2-915.2. Regulation of transportation of a loaded rifle or shotgun.

    which has been updated to include reference only to "loaded shotgun or loaded rifle", and not "or other firearm".

    There are probably many examples if this in local ordinances throughout the state.

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 12-07-2010 at 05:21 PM.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xdm guy View Post
    There time is coming!!!!
    Here comes THE HURRICANE Lol I had to post that.

    He is a wrestler for your info.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 12-07-2010 at 05:39 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    Here comes THE HURRICANE Lol I had to post that.

    He is a wrestler for your info.
    Ok leave Gregory Helms out of this.

    Wonder if that's why the whole screw up arrest? Imagine the trial. What do you mean this law is no longer valid. Oh crap!!!

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Tsunami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    Ok leave Gregory Helms out of this.

    Wonder if that's why the whole screw up arrest? Imagine the trial. What do you mean this law is no longer valid. Oh crap!!!
    Um, I thought the current metaphor was Tsunami

    Hmm, Tsunami AND the James River = TIDAL WAVE.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    Wonder if that's why the whole screw up arrest? Imagine the trial. What do you mean this law is no longer valid. Oh crap!!!
    I seriously doubt it, but it sure would be funny if they tried to tack that on too...

    ETA: If they did that, when they lost, they could be liable for all the defense costs!

    TFred
    Last edited by TFred; 12-07-2010 at 06:26 PM.

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    I seriously doubt it, but it sure would be funny if they tried to tack that on too...

    ETA: If they did that, when they lost, they could be liable for all the defense costs!

    TFred
    So how many plaintiffs can I line up for the suit?
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    So how many plaintiffs can I line up for the suit?
    Well, there was that trip to Colonial Williamsburg, and then the other meal at the Surry House, and ....

    You are taking this one on a contingency basis, right?

    stay safe.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by user View Post
    So how many plaintiffs can I line up for the suit?
    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, there was that trip to Colonial Williamsburg, and then the other meal at the Surry House, and ....

    You are taking this one on a contingency basis, right?

    stay safe.
    I heard that bids were being put out, just for the privilege of providing representation

    Then there is the other option by popular demand - a group rate.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 12-08-2010 at 02:07 AM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Accomplished Advocate user's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Well, there was that trip to Colonial Williamsburg, and then the other meal at the Surry House, and ....

    You are taking this one on a contingency basis, right?

    stay safe.
    Sorta. Kinda. I bill at a normal hourly rate, and keep track of the time. Then I present an affidavit to the court about the fees due and owing. That statute provides for an award of attorney's fees. So when I collect the fees awarded by the court from the defendant, I get paid.

    And since I primarily do defense, I will, of course, have a couple of co-counsel assisting me.
    Last edited by user; 12-08-2010 at 07:26 AM.
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    Activist Member nuc65's Avatar
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    I'm willing to be a plaintiff, if it helps bring this to class action, and if needed.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Like has already been noted, the ordinance references a superseded code section.

    Generally all it has taken in the past is a letter to the CA, City Council (or Board of Supervisors) explaining that their ordinance is in violation of statute and they make the change with little resistance or fanfare.

    Most of the time they do not want to be in the wrong any more than you or I would. Bringing it to their attention and asking for them to follow up should serve sufficient.

    You cannot bring suit against an unlawful ordinance (as far as I am aware) unless you are personally infringed or materially inconvenienced by its enforcement.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wylde007 View Post
    Like has already been noted, the ordinance references a superseded code section.

    Generally all it has taken in the past is a letter to the CA, City Council (or Board of Supervisors) explaining that their ordinance is in violation of statute and they make the change with little resistance or fanfare.

    Most of the time they do not want to be in the wrong any more than you or I would. Bringing it to their attention and asking for them to follow up should serve sufficient.
    .
    You aren't too familiar with the Surry County Government Wylde. Starting later tonight, we'll start learning about the abuses by the elected officials in Surry.

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    Regular Member wylde007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    You aren't too familiar with the Surry County Government Wylde.
    Generally you would be right, at least for the past 15 years or so. Remember, I have also been "screened" at Scotland Wharf... but I did not point my finger at anyone.
    Starting later tonight, we'll start learning about the abuses by the elected officials in Surry.
    I only made the point to see if anyone has addressed this through non-confrontational channels first.

    Granted, my first instinct is to confrontation, but I have been trying to learn from some of you old salts that sometimes you actually do catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.

    Now, if you are saying that these blokes in Surry are just plain ign'ant and would not even entertain the suggestion that their ordinance violates statutory law, then by all means. I was just trying to play the "better man" position and try to address the matter with civility prior to engaging in some legal vendetta.
    The quiet war has begun, with silent weapons
    And the newest slavery is to keep the people poor, and stupid
    Novos ordo seclorum ~ Mustaine

    Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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    I suppose I could give them a call and point out the error of their ways. It's worked for me with Tazewell and Campbell County just in the last half of this year.

    *Working on a letter to send out through the "Contact Us" form provided by Surry County. This assumes no one else has addressed this issue yet.
    Last edited by jmelvin; 12-10-2010 at 10:17 AM.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I suppose I could give them a call and point out the error of their ways. It's worked for me with Tazewell and Campbell County just in the last half of this year.

    *Working on a letter to send out through the "Contact Us" form provided by Surry County. This assumes no one else has addressed this issue yet.
    Was this the story about your efforts with Tazewell County?

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Was this the story about your efforts with Tazewell County?

    TFred
    Yup, that's it. We also have new Park Rules signs in the Campbell County parks, which are nicely done and don't have the illegal restriction on carrying arms. I ought to take a picture of them and post them up. They really are sharp, especially compared to the 8.5"x11" sheet on the park bulletin board that appeared to be written by someone only half literate.

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    I just sent the following to the Surry County Administrators:

    Greetings Surry County Administrators,

    I was recently reading some news stories regarding activities that occurred within the county and this reading prompted me to take a gander at the existing Surry County Code of Ordinances. As I looked over the Code of Ordinances I noticed a restriction within Part 1, Chapter 20, Article III, Division 2, Section 20-66 which states:

    “Except as otherwise provided by law, no person shall have in his possession or under his control, or have in any vehicle in which he may be in charge or have in control, any loaded shotgun or rifle or other firearm while he or such vehicle is upon any public street in the county, or, while either is unlawfully upon the land of another; provided, that law enforcement officers, and members of the armed forces of the United States or the military forces of the state when acting under competent orders, shall be excepted; and provided, further, that such person who shall be able to show at the time apprehended that his possession of the loaded rifle or shotgun was required or reasonably necessary, under the then appearing circumstances, for the protection of his person or family from bodily injury or his property from serious damage by another shall also be excepted.

    State law reference—Authority to so provide, Code of Virginia, § 14.2-915.2”

    As you may or may not know Code of Virginia Title 14 no longer exists, therefore the citation to authority provided with the county ordinance is void. Further, Virginia Code Section 15.2-915 now (since 2004 I believe) restricts localities from enforcing existing or new local laws regarding the carry of handguns by the public. As a result a portion of the existing Surry County ordinance stands in direct violation of the Code of Virginia.

    Attempts to enforce the existing county code or any new code that attempts to restrict the carrying of handguns in Surry County put the county at a significant financial liability since a portion of the county code is void as a result of state law. Please consult with the County Attorney and the Commonwealth’s Attorney for Surry County and remove the existing wording of Surry County Code of Ordinances Part 1, Chapter 20, Article III, Division 2, Section 20-66. If I can be of help, please do not hesitate to write or call.


    We'll see what they do.

  20. #20
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmelvin View Post
    I just sent the following to the Surry County Administrators:

    Greetings Surry County Administrators,
    It will be interesting to see. The correct code reference was moved to Title 15, same sub-sections, etc., and all they have to do to be compliant is remove the three words "or other firearm" from their local code.

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    It will be interesting to see. The correct code reference was moved to Title 15, same sub-sections, etc., and all they have to do to be compliant is remove the three words "or other firearm" from their local code.

    TFred
    You may be right. I can tell them that if they write or call.

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    I've learned, over the years, that there are some people who are just not worth trying to be nice to. And the folks in Surry County have pretty much demonstrated to me that they are such people. Also, "to the man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail", and I'm a litigator. I'd have been inclined to just go ahead and file the suit. Actually, what I was thinking of was a petition in the Sup. Ct. for a writ of prohibition(don't try to enforce that statute) and mandamus (do your job, public officials!).
    Daniel L. Hawes - 540 347 2430 - HTTP://www.VirginiaLegalDefense.com

    By the way, nothing I say on this website as "user" should be taken as either advertising for attorney services or legal advice, merely personal opinion. Everyone having a question regarding the application of law to the facts of their situation should seek the advice of an attorney competent in the subject matter of the issues presented and licensed to practice in the relevant state.

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    The old Marberry v. Madison case, the first constitutional law case I ever studied all those years ago. I say go for it.

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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Surry County businesses: potential allies?

    Is it possible that gun owners and groups like VCDL could reach out to businesses in Surry County to let them know that discrimination against gun owners is bad for business -- and that welcome treatment of gun owners is good for business?

    A well-known business in Surry is Edwards, known far and wide for their excellent ham and other pork traditions.

    In their catalog, their map showing the location of their stores features the Surry ferry:



    Obviously, use of the ferry makes it easier for people to visit their stores, and possibly make purchases too.

    Maybe businesses like Edwards do not know how gun owners are being treated in Surry.

  25. #25
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repeater View Post
    Is it possible that gun owners and groups like VCDL could reach out to businesses in Surry County to let them know that discrimination against gun owners is bad for business -- and that welcome treatment of gun owners is good for business?

    *********
    Obviously, use of the ferry makes it easier for people to visit their stores, and possibly make purchases too.

    Maybe businesses like Edwards do not know how gun owners are being treated in Surry.
    Oh they are becoming acutely aware and will be the more so, I GUARANTEE it.

    BTW - The Surrey House Restaurant is a very good friend. They are a well known and rightfully famous landmark dining facility.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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