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Thread: Upstairs Neighbors Getting Rowdy

  1. #1
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    Upstairs Neighbors Getting Rowdy

    Hello all, this is a true story that occurred on the morning of December 5th. My wife and friends and I just got back from clubbing in the twin cities at around 3 AM, we were having our friends sleep in the living room on some inflatable air mattresses. Our upstairs neighbors were playing some really loud music that was vibrating our apartment, and at one point we hear a bunch of screaming and shouting. Well, I had to take the dog out before we put her in her crate, and i was going to strap my pistol on but my wife absolutely insisted that I don't. I know these people a little bit and if they were as drunk as they sounded my Tae Kwon Do training could probably protect me.

    I get outside just in time to see one of the guys who lives upstairs storm off down the road, screaming "F*** this". Another one of the guys was telling him to come back because he had no where else to go, and when I started asking him what was going on, he said the guy that just stormed off started choking his girlfriend, but the girlfriend's brother was there and was obviously fighting with this guy. I said I thought it was just two guys getting in an argument and if I had known there was a girl involved I would have called the cops without a doubt. The guy and this other girl were apologizing to me, and I told them if any more problems develop they should probably call the cops, they agreed with me and so I asked them to turn down the music. They said they'd do that and so I finished walking the dog, and went back downstairs.

    I don't know if they forgot, or their buddies wouldn't let them turn down the stereo, but we called the cops on them about 45 minutes after I was done talking with them for a noise disturbance and being rowdy. About an hour later the cops came by at about 4:45 AM and knocked on their door, but no one had answered. They called my cell and said it looked all quiet and that no one answered the door. So I was like whatever, I just wanted to sleep. At 7am, we were awoken to a loud banging on our neighbors front door, saying "Open up, police, we have a search warrant!". They stormed into the upstairs and subdued everybody, about 5 minutes later they were knocking at our back door which leads into the laundry room and a stairwell to the upstairs. I answered and had three cops in front of me with one having his gun drawn, I asked how I could help them. They asked who I was and I told em my name and that I was the guy that called the noise disturbance on them at 3:45AM. They said ok, and went back upstairs.

    About 10:30AM, I get up to take the dog and see a sheriff and two other cruisers parked in front of our house. I walk the dog and bring her back in, about 5 minutes after coming back inside, they ring my doorbell. So I go up to answer it and the sheriff was just trying to confirm our address. I let him know what our address was, and he was like, "oh, I almost thought it was your address I was supposed to be searching until you called in this morning with a noise complaint about your neighbors. We were planning on doing it this afternoon, but since you called this morning, we moved up the time frame."

    I asked what happened, and they said they received reports of some of the guys doing drug dealing out of their apartment. The cops were searching their entire residence and I never found out if they found anything. I should put in an open records request, though. A little later after all the people upstairs were processed, one of the girls who lives in the apartment rings my doorbell and asks if she could talk to me in private. So I let her into our stairwell, and she was apologizing for everything and that she was very embarrassed. She said she wasn't going to let them have any more parties or booze while she lived there. The guy who had stormed off actually has a record as a sex offender(which I already knew about), and she said that I should make sure the back door is always locked, because she thinks the guys been breaking into vehicles because he's been coming back with chargers and iPods saying he found them at the bar. This guy has no job, and is actually freeloading off of them, but she said he will probably be going to jail anyways. In the meantime though, she said to make sure we keep our place locked up tight. She's a smart girl, and I told her if she ever needs a place to stay for the night we have a couch.

    In the end,all of this made me recheck my situation, and what I'd do in case that guy got really drunk one night and decided he wanted to break into our apartment. I have a 12 gauge shotgun under the bed with the first two rounds being the rubber ball ammo, the 3rd some number two birdshot, and the last two rounds 00 buckshot. I also have my 460 S&W mag loaded with some 45 colt hollowpoints, they're not self-defense grade, but they should do the job, and I won't lose my hearing for three weeks like a single round of 460 S&W mag does. I also have at my bedside a rubber strip loaded with more 45 colt, a headlamp, and electronic ear muffs. Our bedroom door locks, and the front entryway has two locking doors, with our weakest entrypoint being the laundry room door which is 7 feet from our bedroom door. It does lock, but I'm not sure how secure it is, I can't replace it unless I have the landlord do it. We need to get in contact with our real estate office and make sure they're aware of the situation as well. While I don't think it'll ever come to me defending my home and wife from that guy and/or his buddies, it never hurts to be prepared. Is there anything you can think of I might have overlooked?

    Thanks for listening to my story guys and girls, carry on!
    Last edited by Pyro01; 12-08-2010 at 02:26 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
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    Get rid of the gimmick rounds in your shotgun -- the rubber and bird. It should only have buck shot or slugs. Gimmick rounds 1) will not stop someone, and 2) may indicate to a court that you fired it without being in fear for your life.

    You may not legally fire ANY firearm at someone, regardless of the ammunition used, unless the situation is so dire that you believe one of you is going to die, and you have decided that it will be him instead of you.

    Also, file a police report with all the information you have that they have not yet been written down by the officers, as, if anything ever happens, it will be beneficial to have prior documentation of events.

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    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    The other thing you could do is practice different senarios with all your firearm (unloaded of course), just so your muscle memory is made.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson (1776)

    If you go into a store, with a gun, and rob it, you have forfeited your right to not get shot - Joe Deters, Hamilton County (Cincinnati) Prosecutor

    I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few politicians. - George Mason (father of the Bill of Rights and The Virginia Declaration of Rights)

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    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Is there anything you can think of I might have overlooked?
    Drug dealers...Sex offenders... ??

    Yeah, your missing a U Haul truck, Get outta there !!!

    LR Yote.
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    Regular Member VW_Factor's Avatar
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    Wait a minute.. They were going to search yer residence until you called? /boggle

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    Regular Member 1FASTC4's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    Drug dealers...Sex offenders... ??

    Yeah, your missing a U Haul truck, Get outta there !!!

    LR Yote.
    +1.

    I won't go into gimmick rounds and sticking his nose into a mess.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    The gimmick rounds are coming out, that makes perfect sense. I'm not going to be moving because we are only concerned with one guy, and we just moved in here last month. I requested a police report and the lady referred me to the DA. I'll have to call him to get anything they got written up so far. Before I knew that he was a sex offender and possibly dealing marijuana, he seemed like a decent guy. He's only a year older than me, and frankly, if he is stupid enough to break in and take something, we have a pretty good idea who it was. I think he may be out on bail, not sure what actually happened, but he'll probably be leaving this residence soon. We're going to get ahold of the real estate office and see if they've been alerted by the police department yet regarding this incident.

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    Regular Member Beretta-m9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro01 View Post
    The gimmick rounds are coming out, that makes perfect sense. I'm not going to be moving because we are only concerned with one guy, and we just moved in here last month. I requested a police report and the lady referred me to the DA. I'll have to call him to get anything they got written up so far. Before I knew that he was a sex offender and possibly dealing marijuana, he seemed like a decent guy. He's only a year older than me, and frankly, if he is stupid enough to break in and take something, we have a pretty good idea who it was. I think he may be out on bail, not sure what actually happened, but he'll probably be leaving this residence soon. We're going to get ahold of the real estate office and see if they've been alerted by the police department yet regarding this incident.
    you just moved in a month ago, you have a pedo, theif, drug dealer and a woman beater, and your only concerned with one guy ? was only one person at the party ? are they selling drugs to one person ? who in gods name befriends a known pedo ? I think you need to take a moment and seriously consider your situation, if you are serious about the protection of your family and your possesion I see no other option then moving.

    He seemed like a nice guy, isn't that what people who know murders always say about them ?
    Last edited by Beretta-m9; 12-09-2010 at 09:12 AM.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta-m9 View Post
    you just moved in a month ago, you have a pedo, theif, drug dealer and a woman beater, and your only concerned with one guy ? was only one person at the party ? are they selling drugs to one person ? who in gods name befriends a known pedo ? I think you need to take a moment and seriously consider your situation, if you are serious about the protection of your family and your possesion I see no other option then moving.

    He seemed like a nice guy, isn't that what people who know murders always say about them ?
    I see where you're coming from, but I don't have the money to move somewhere else. I'm not going to run away, why should I have to suffer. My wife knows how to use a shotgun and pistol very well, and she knows where they both are and how to use them. If the guy might be gone soon, then all the better to wait. Besides, it's a big pain in the ass trying to find someone to take over your lease while you try to find a new apartment that's big enough for us and allows dogs and cats at the price I'm paying. I had to do that in order to move in to this place. I don't know if this guys roommates know he's a sex offender, because the real estate obviously forgot to mention that to us. If this guy wants to steal from me when I'm not home and go away for burglary, then let him. If he chooses to try to break in when I'm home then I will defend myself and my family.

  10. #10
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    quite a story! with lessons, and points of discussion for all. i cant add much; i'm dealing with a developing situation with one of my kids right now. the issue(s) have placed us, and our house on a 'higher state of alert'. I can say the cops are doing us no favors in this matter. i will talk further once i see how this family situation plays out. but for now I stick to my credo: I see it all crystal clear, so i keep my pistol near, heart's never full of fear, homey i stay well aware of what's going on around me, mother****ers want me dead, so i put a smile on my face- go through life, finish my time here.

    I just hope my credo doesn't end up being my epitaph at this point.

  11. #11
    Regular Member TyGuy's Avatar
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    I would say to make sure that your firearms are secured when you aren't home. You wouldn't want one of your stellar neighbors breaking in and stealing them. Even if they punish him for the crime he might have been able to sell them in the mean time. I would feel horrible if one of my firearms was stolen and sold to a criminal.

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    Regular Member JerryD's Avatar
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    wow rubber ball rounds? why on God's green earth would you put that garbage in a defensive weapon? If you ever have to shoot someone you damn sure dont want them to be able to get right back up and do you and yours harm you want them down for the count.
    I had to change my signature because you know who got upset about it.

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    Campaign Veteran GLOCK21GB's Avatar
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    you mean the FLAMETHROWER rounds I have for my shotgun are bad ? <<< this is a joke, ok. relax
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

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    Quote Originally Posted by amaixner View Post
    Get rid of the gimmick rounds in your shotgun -- the rubber and bird. It should only have buck shot or slugs. Gimmick rounds 1) will not stop someone, and 2) may indicate to a court that you fired it without being in fear for your life.

    You may not legally fire ANY firearm at someone, regardless of the ammunition used, unless the situation is so dire that you believe one of you is going to die, and you have decided that it will be him instead of you.

    Also, file a police report with all the information you have that they have not yet been written down by the officers, as, if anything ever happens, it will be beneficial to have prior documentation of events.
    Cite? Which statutes of what state are you referring to?
    The true response is "it depends upon the statutes of the state where such incident happens."
    Last edited by wrightme; 12-09-2010 at 10:54 AM.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro01 View Post
    I see where you're coming from, but I don't have the money to move somewhere else. I'm not going to run away, why should I have to suffer. My wife knows how to use a shotgun and pistol very well, and she knows where they both are and how to use them. If the guy might be gone soon, then all the better to wait. Besides, it's a big pain in the ass trying to find someone to take over your lease while you try to find a new apartment that's big enough for us and allows dogs and cats at the price I'm paying. I had to do that in order to move in to this place. I don't know if this guys roommates know he's a sex offender, because the real estate obviously forgot to mention that to us. If this guy wants to steal from me when I'm not home and go away for burglary, then let him. If he chooses to try to break in when I'm home then I will defend myself and my family.
    I see and hear what your saying.It Sucks havin money tied up like that,especially now with the jobs the way they are and the Christmas season on us.

    Havin your wife backin ya up and knowin how to shoot is a good thing.
    I taught mine to shoot for a similar reason. We had a stalker some years back.
    Something I learned about The System is when it comes time.....Dont count on the
    the system to help ya out. One would think with a registered sex offended it would be easy or easier to prosecute....Not the case at all.

    PD's move very slowly. No LEO wants to jump the gun and falsely accuse a registered sex offender.
    Also I would be very careful with your firearms.Sharing a upper/lower house type building with a felon could be problematic as in the past IIRC the person that owned the firearms could be prosecuted for supplying or having a firearm accessable to a felon.Locked safes and vaults were not separation enough from the felon and gun.

    IIRC guns were confiscated for such a reason.

    LR Yote
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    Watch your thoughts; they become words.
    Watch your words; they become actions.
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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    okay...the guy is a sex offender, that doesn't make him a pedo. I can understand the concerns, but some of the comments in this thread are borderline hysterical. Some of them are in line with reporter comments MWAG - "wielding a semi auto grenade equipped ak-47 assault rifle with a 100 round clip, laser sighting, and a tacticool nucular self destruct mechanism."

    To the OP. I would give the woman upstairs the benefit of the doubt. She made a grossly negligent mistake with the company she allowed into her home, but if she really appears intent on changing the environment, don't start packing yet.

    Transient drug users breaking into cars to steal enough for another score goes hand in hand with apartment complexes all over the US. It is unavoidable. The real issue is can you trust that the noise issues and alleged abuse upstairs will stop.

    btw - do you know what drugs they were allegedly selling?
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    okay...the guy is a sex offender, that doesn't make him a pedo. I can understand the concerns, but some of the comments in this thread are borderline hysterical. Some of them are in line with reporter comments MWAG - "wielding a semi auto grenade equipped ak-47 assault rifle with a 100 round clip, laser sighting, and a tacticool nucular self destruct mechanism."

    To the OP. I would give the woman upstairs the benefit of the doubt. She made a grossly negligent mistake with the company she allowed into her home, but if she really appears intent on changing the environment, don't start packing yet.

    Transient drug users breaking into cars to steal enough for another score goes hand in hand with apartment complexes all over the US. It is unavoidable. The real issue is can you trust that the noise issues and alleged abuse upstairs will stop.

    btw - do you know what drugs they were allegedly selling?

    I agree here, I would wait and see if all the commotion quiets down before uprooting yourself.

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    Regular Member Krusty's Avatar
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    http://wcca.wicourts.gov/simpleCaseS...27EC6F.render6

    Like me, you may want to do a little checking on the people in your area. I use this link quite often.
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    Regular Member Beretta-m9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrightme View Post
    Cite? Which statutes of what state are you referring to?
    The true response is "it depends upon the statutes of the state where such incident happens."
    this is the Wisconsin part of the forum I am just guessing here but I would say the person is likely refering to Wisconsin law.

    939.48 Self−defense and defense of others. (1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself
    Last edited by Beretta-m9; 12-09-2010 at 01:18 PM. Reason: add bold

  20. #20
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    I use this as a reference - http://www.crimemapping.com/default.aspx - but not all states or cities use this. It appears that only Altoona uses this site in WI.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta-m9 View Post
    this is the Wisconsin part of the forum I am just guessing here but I would say the person is likely refering to Wisconsin law.

    939.48 Self−defense and defense of others. (1) A person is privileged to threaten or intentionally use force against another for the purpose of preventing or terminating what the person reasonably believes to be an unlawful interference with his or her person by such other person. The actor may intentionally use only such force or threat thereof as the actor reasonably believes is necessary to prevent or terminate the interference. The actor may not intentionally use force which is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself
    So, the relevant statute is NOT only "one of us is going to die."
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  22. #22
    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro01 View Post
    The gimmick rounds are coming out, that makes perfect sense. I'm not going to be moving because we are only concerned with one guy, and we just moved in here last month. I requested a police report and the lady referred me to the DA. I'll have to call him to get anything they got written up so far. Before I knew that he was a sex offender and possibly dealing marijuana, he seemed like a decent guy. He's only a year older than me, and frankly, if he is stupid enough to break in and take something, we have a pretty good idea who it was. I think he may be out on bail, not sure what actually happened, but he'll probably be leaving this residence soon. We're going to get ahold of the real estate office and see if they've been alerted by the police department yet regarding this incident.
    The problem is rubber buckshot is that it is marketed as a "less than lethal" round and it is meant to be used on targets beyond a certain distance--- a distance you may not have inside a residence. The round might still be lethal withing the recommended distances, but certainly has a much greater chance of becoming lethal when used at shorter distances. If the perp dies and you say you used rubber rounds and didn't mean to kill him, then you might be opened up to negligent homicide charges.

    Use of bird shot within a residence, particularly an apartment building actually makes a certain amount of sense, because it is less likely to penetrate into adjoining rooms or apartments. Within typical room's-length distances it won't have spread so much that it loses it's lethality, but enters as a loose lead mass creating a ugly "rat hole" wound. Still I recommend buckshot, if not OO, then maybe #4 buckshot. I use OO and OOO and slugs.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member Gunslinger's Avatar
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    00 buckshot and a .460S&W magnum are NOT good PD loads in an apartment. Overpenetration is almost guaranteed. Birdshot won't, and will certainly do the job at close range. Or get a .357 or .45 auto with good HP loads. Don't shoot a .460 with full power loads under any circumstances with only drywall as a backstop. The .45 Colts are probably OK, but just not my choice for PD in your situation. Best advice: get the hell outa there.
    Last edited by Gunslinger; 12-09-2010 at 02:26 PM.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Isn't the issue providing safety for family while keeping guns out of criminal hands?
    Yes the issue is protecting life, home, and property therein. However, it doesn't sound like(at least to me) that the upstairs neighbors were a bunch of illegal gun toting, drug abusing, violent thief's that were hell bent on invading the home below.

    Drug addict/dealer gets in fight with GF; noise continues through the night; cops are called; the raid gets bumped up. I don't believe there were any specific threats to the OP, he just happened to live right below someone who didn't associate with the right people(happens to the best of us). Its sounds like that is being remedied(time will tell). Sure there may be a lingering bad influence around and giving advice as to the best way to be prepared "just in case" is what should be intended. It doesn't sound like the OP is a target because of all of this - just wrong place wrong time. You could move halfway across the world and still be witness to such an event.

    Imagine reading this thread had he NOT called the cops and they raided his residence by mistake.
    Last edited by Coded-Dude; 12-09-2010 at 02:37 PM.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Pyro01's Avatar
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    A quick update, they all moved out and the upstairs apartment is currently empty. I had a pretty good feeling this would happen, I'm glad I stuck it out.
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