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Thread: Welcome Home, boys, TSA "Interrogates" our Soldiers. From The East Side Patriot

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    Welcome Home, boys, TSA "Interrogates" our Soldiers. From The East Side Patriot

    http://www.theeastsidepatriot.com/20...gates-our.html
    Quote Originally Posted by The East Side Patriot
    As the Chalk Leader for my flight home from Afghanistan, I witnessed the following:

    [ ... ]

    It's probably important to mention that we were ALL carrying weapons. Everyone was carrying an M4 Carbine (rifle) and some, like me, were also carrying an M9 pistol. Oh, and our gunners had M-240B machine guns. Of course, the weapons weren't loaded. And we had been cleared of all ammo well before we even got to customs at Baghram, then AGAIN at customs.

    [ ... ]

    TSA informs the Soldier that they’re going to confiscate his nail clippers. The conversation went something like this:

    TSA Guy: You can’t take those on the plane.

    Soldier: What? I’ve had them since we left country.

    TSA Guy: You’re not suppose to have them.

    Soldier: Why?

    TSA Guy: They can be used as a weapon.

    Soldier: [touches butt stock of the rifle] But this actually is a weapon. And I’m allowed to take it on.

    TSA Guy: Yeah but you can’t use it to take over the plane. You don’t have bullets.

    Soldier: And I can take over the plane with nail clippers?

    TSA Guy: [awkward silence]

    Me: Dude, just give him your damn nail clippers so we can get the f**k out of here. I’ll buy you a new set.

    Soldier: [hands nail clippers to TSA guy, makes it through security]

    To top it off, the tsa demanded we all be swabbed for “explosive residue” detection. Everyone failed, [go figure, we just came home from a war zone], because we tested positive for “Gun Powder Residue”. Who the F**K is hiring these people?

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    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    The best part is his final question:

    "Can someone please tell me What the F**K happened to OUR country while we were gone?"

    Answer: We let the terrorists win. We now believe we are safe from them by having our balls groped and our nail clippers taken away. Don't even think about getting on a plane with 3.1 ounces of shampoo, or even better, 0.1 ounces of shampoo in a 3.1 ounce bottle.

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    I have had treatment directed towards me like this before on a US Air flight.

    I arrived at Frankfurt Am Main International Airport ready to PCS to Fort Hood, with the express confidence that the travel agency on post had secured my tickets as is typical.

    I took the train to Frankfurt, got off, stood 2 hours in line to get to the front counter of US Air while carrying my duffle, a carry on, and a large black US Army bag.

    I get there, and lo and behold, no ticket for me. Somebody screwed up. I pull out my reservation paperwork and the agent tells me that I simply am not in their system. SO I switch to emergency mode, and move at a brisk pace to the complete, and total opposite side of the airport to get to the USO and in turn the counter that allows for me to address these kinds of issues.

    They immediately get me booked on a US Air flight after I stand in line behind some Sergeant who couldn't figure out where to take his vacation, and I offer a brief "Thanks" to the guy behind the counter as I all but run to the terminal, Polizei eying me inquisitively.

    I get my baggage checked, and barely make it to my terminal for last boarding call.

    While stepping on the plane, I look at my ticket and it clearly gives me a static seat assignment. So I make my way to the seat, and sure enough it's empty. I stow my bag and flop down in the seat, and prepare for takeoff.

    I'm there for maybe 15 minutes before a stewardess comes up and says, very rudely I might add, "Sir, this is not your seat. You need to sit in the proper seat to ensure everyone gets on the plane.".

    I am puzzled at this point, because I was literally the last person on the plane.

    So I pull out my ticket and show it to her. She glances at my seat, and then back at my ticket. Sure enough they match.

    "Well sir, this is not your seat. I will find you a vacant one elsewhere.".

    So I reply, "Ok, whatever. I just sat where the ticket assigned me to sit.". I was tired of the crap, and frankly, just happy I made it on board on time.

    So she comes back and says, "We have a spot for you at the back of the plane. Seat X Number XX".

    So I get up, grab my bag, and make my way to where she told me to sit, which was crammed up against some poor german girl.

    I settled in and me and this 30 or so year old, cute german girl start talking.

    Next thing I know, in the middle of our conversation, some bald male stewardess with a goatee comes up and says, "I hear you are giving the stewardesses a hard time?".

    Totally confused I look at the guy and ask, "What's that? Do you have me confused with someone else maybe? I have been polite and compliant to every request that the staff have made of me.".

    So the guy say's, "No I'm sure it is you. She gave me the seat number. I will be watching you. Please be aware that I can have you removed from the plane if we have any other issues with you.".

    I tell the guy, "I am just trying to fly to my next post. That's all.".


    This pissed me off so bad because I was totally polite and respectful, and complied with the stewardesses every request. I even gave up a seat that was assigned to me on my ticket.

    The comical part was the fact that the seat and accompanying seats next to it, were empty for the entire flight.


    Excuse the nice build, US Army sweater, Army carry-on bag, and polite, friendly, and compliant demeanor US Airways.

    You sure showed me who was boss...
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    Regular Member cbpeck's Avatar
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    I call B.S. on this... I almost wish it were real though because I can actually see TSA being this insane.

    Groups of troops returning from overseas duty almost never see a TSA guy on their trip home. Here's a link to another forum where this same story came up. They have better info on its lack of credibility than I do:

    http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=83054001

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbpeck View Post
    I call B.S. on this... I almost wish it were real though because I can actually see TSA being this insane.

    Groups of troops returning from overseas duty almost never see a TSA guy on their trip home. Here's a link to another forum where this same story came up. They have better info on its lack of credibility than I do:

    http://forums.hannity.com/showthread.php?p=83054001
    The flight directly back from in theater almost always lands on a post somewhere. We landed on a section of Rammstein.

    In fact, on our flight back, the crew left the cabin door open, and we could come and go into the cabin as we wished. They dropped the chair that was on the cabin wall, just so a lucky guy could sit up there during landing. Being up front while going 560mph is pretty sweet.

    We all had our firearms stowed under our seats, and the pilot was playing some rock and roll over the intercom system.

    Pretty fun flight home actually.

    Hell we deserved it.

    So yeah, I would question the validity of the claim only because troop movement would not ever go through civilian channels. However, I could see the airline mandating the presence of their screening personnel?

    When you redeploy from theater, all of your crap literally gets dumped out of your bag, and "inspected" by the MP unit doing air logistics.

    That's just what I witnessed.

    Iraq to Camp Wolf, dump all of your dirty, smelly **** on the table, put it all back in, get on the plane, fly to Rammstein.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

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    It is amazing how much crap gets blindly repeated on the Internet as though it is Gospel. The more it gets repeated, the more it is accepted as true.

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    I think there is a word or phrase to describe that effect. If not, maybe you should coin another phrase ie. pictohoplophobia. Still chuckling over that one.

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    The TSA doesn't confiscate anything. They give you an option to surrender it or exit the security checkpoint to put it in a checked bag or mail it. Nail clippers are not prohibited items so I find this story to be a sham. Also, there are only a select few people that can be in possession of a firearm inside the sterile area of a commercial airport and military personnel aren't one of them.. unless they are MP's traveling on orders, Army CID, or Navy NCIS. LEO's are the only persons capable of firearm possession in a commercial airports sterile areas. If the passengers "military" de-boarded the plane inside of a sterile area then this is a huge error on many persons parts.. This story isn't even close to being true.. it's a story written by some anti Government nut. TSA screens commercial aircraft that are operated by commercial air carriers, period. People will complain about anything that they can and the TSA seems to be a big target lately. Flying and airport security comes with consent. Don't want to give consent? Don't buy an airline ticket!
    Last edited by phoenixOC; 12-10-2010 at 03:13 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixOC View Post
    The TSA doesn't confiscate anything. They give you an option to surrender it or exit the security checkpoint to put it in a checked bag or mail it.
    I'll call BS on that. The items that TSA won't allow past the checkpoint fall into two categories: prohibited and illegal. TSA screeners may offer you the options you list for the items classified as "prohibited" (my experience and the experiences that have been related to me reflect that they don't--probably too much hassle), but, for illegal items, they will definitely remove the item from your possession and call the local cops. I call that confiscation.

    For example, if you bring a gun to the checkpoint, even though it would have been lawful to check it (following the appropriate restrictions on how to check it), they will take the gun and not give you the chance to check it. Also, local cops will take whatever action the local and State laws allow.

    On the nail clippers: At one point in time, they were prohibited. Since the OP did not indicate when this happened, it could have happened when they were prohibited. Furthermore, it is highly believable that, were a person to be prevented from carrying clippers past the checkpoint, that the screener would not mention the options of checking or mailing the clippers. It is also possible that, even if the options were mentioned, the reaction would be, "You're kidding, right? I have to go through that hassle to keep my nail clippers???"

    Asked the next day, the owner of the clippers will reasonably say, "The TSA screener took [or confiscated] my clippers." Even the TSA recognizes that that is exactly how the public would reasonably perceive such an event.

    That being said, I believe the story to be BS--just for reasons other than you give.

    Flying and airport security comes with consent. Don't want to give consent? Don't buy an airline ticket!
    How many other Liberties are you willing to part with under the excuse that "If you want the Liberty to do something, you must consent to give up an enumerated right"?

    This fails the Franklin Test on two counts: Our right "to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" is an essential Liberty. And we gain no security (not even temporary) from invasive searches, so-called "screenings." These security measures have not stopped any terrorists yet (good intel and dumb luck have), and terrorists simply adjust their methods (heard of butt bombs?) every time the TSA jacks up the way it jacks up law abiding citizens. As with gun laws, the searches and seizures only work against the good guys, not their purported targets.
    Last edited by eye95; 12-10-2010 at 09:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    I'll call BS on that. The items that TSA won't allow past the checkpoint fall into two categories: prohibited and illegal. TSA screeners may offer you the options you list for the items classified as "prohibited" (my experience and the experiences that have been related to me reflect that they don't--probably too much hassle), but, for illegal items, they will definitely remove the item from your possession and call the local cops. I call that confiscation.

    For example, if you bring a gun to the checkpoint, even though it would have been lawful to check it (following the appropriate restrictions on how to check it), they will take the gun and not give you the chance to check it. Also, local cops will take whatever action the local and State laws allow.

    On the nail clippers: At one point in time, they were prohibited. Since the OP did not indicate when this happened, it could have happened when they were prohibited. Furthermore, it is highly believable that, were a person to be prevented from carrying clippers past the checkpoint, that the screener would not mention the options of checking or mailing the clippers. It is also possible that, even if the options were mentioned, the reaction would be, "You're kidding, right? I have to go through that hassle to keep my nail clippers???"

    Asked the next day, the owner of the clippers will reasonably say, "The TSA screener took [or confiscated] my clippers." Even the TSA recognizes that that is exactly how the public would reasonably perceive such an event.

    That being said, I believe the story to be BS--just for reasons other than you give.



    How many other Liberties are you willing to part with under the excuse that "If you want the Liberty to do something, you must consent to give up an enumerated right"?

    This fails the Franklin Test on two counts: Our right "to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" is an essential Liberty. And we gain no security (not even temporary) from invasive searches, so-called "screenings." These security measures have not stopped any terrorists yet (good intel and dumb luck have), and terrorists simply adjust their methods (heard of butt bombs?) every time the TSA jacks up the way it jacks up law abiding citizens. As with gun laws, the searches and seizures only work against the good guys, not their purported targets.
    As I said before, the TSA doesn't confiscate anything. The TSA SOP doesn't use the word "illegal". Items fall under two categories, prohibited and not prohibited. Certain items are given exemptions (i.e. liquid prescription medication and milk for a baby). If you were to attempt to pass through a security checkpoint with a prohibited item (i.e. a weapon such as a knife or gun) the item is held in the X-Ray tunnel until law enforcement arrives. TSA employees are not allowed to physically handle certain prohibited items like firearms. This is not confiscation. The TSA does administrative searches on all accessible property. At the moment it's placed on the x-ray belt you have given consent for this property to be searched. Until the item is considered cleared by TSA you may not have it back. The ATSA (aviation transportation security act) makes this clear.

    Since 9/11 there has not been one successful attempt to detonate an IED on an aircraft that left the ground on American soil. In the attempts since 9/11 all of the IED's that made it onto aircraft were because of other countries inferior screening and technology. There are no cases of ANY IED's making it onto aircraft which were in the United States by TSA PERIOD. The underwear bomber Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's flight 253 departed Amsterdam and was to arrive in Detroit. This is due to the lack of the screening that actually took place in Yemen which is where he departed from before arriving to Amsterdam. While in Amsterdam Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab never left the sterile area of the airport so it was not necessary for him to go through screening again.

    Richard Reid the shoe bomber on flight 63 was in route to Miami from Paris France.. Yet again not screened by TSA.

    On July 4th, 2002, the second most deadly aviation related terrorist incident occurred. Hesham Mohamed Hadayet walked into LAX and shot two israili's at the El Al ticket counter. A private El Al Security guard shot him.

    Other than this, no other terrorist events have occurred inside the United States involving aviation. You're right.. TSA screening hasn't actually stopped a terrorist attack. To give you an idea of what apart of what TSA does.. It's about 75% security theater and 25% security. Then again, all security has a level of "security theater"..


    This is possible that the nail clippers were handled that way.. I wasn't there to witness the incident. It is unlikely as it is protocol to ALWAYS give the passenger their options when prohibited items are discovered. TSA is there to insure the free movement of people and commerce, not to steal your cosmetic items. Trust me.. they get tired of people not reading the signs that you payed for to put up all over the checkpoint.

    I also understand you not wanting to give up liberties.. but if you wish to allow your mother and spouse to board a plane that's not had it's passengers screened then be my guest.. I'm keeping myself and my family far away from that aircraft.

    The attempted assassination of the Saudi Prince by the AQAP terrorist that you believe to be a "butt bomb" was actually determined by the Saudi Government to be an underwear bomb. Just so you know, Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab also had close ties to the AQAP.

    A quick rundown on IED's and the human body for you...

    Explosive material is highly hazardous and in some cases can cause chemical burns or even open sores on the body. It's very toxic to human organs and skin. The Human body also absorbs explosions very well. The human body is mostly made of water as you probably know, making it very "fluid" like when it receives a large shock. To take down an aircraft, a well placed low explosive could be used. This would take approximately 350ML if placed in the right area of the aircraft. When the attempt on the Saudi Prince was attempted, he was standing right next to the assassin and still recieved little to no affect. If it wont affect someone standing next to you it's highly unlikely to puncture the skin of an aircraft and his IED was in his underwear.

    Is a cavity bomb possible? Yes.. Is it possible by putting enough high explosive inside an anal cavity? Maybe.. The thing is that smaller terrorist groups don't have the means and the funding to get a hold of military grade high explosives or the facilities to do the proper surgery to put these things inside the body.

    An IED consists of 4 parts.

    A power source, an initiator, an explosive and a switch or timer.

    Commonly used materials by Al Qaeda and other groups of similar size include things like TATP, PETN, Nitroglycerin.. These things can be refined and made in your kitchen with the right know how.

    Any battery could work depending on the type of initiator.. a GE Flash bulb works great with a 9 volt.

    And a switch can be bought at walmart even.. or maybe a cellular phone could be modified or possibly just a modified wrist watch. Again, easy to do with the right know how.


    ]Even though the administrative searches that TSA does falls under the 4th ammendment it's not the same type of search that a LEO conducts. A LEO must have probable cause to search your property. When you attempt to enter the sterile area of an airport you havent given anyone probable cause, you have given consent to be searched by the terms and conditions of TSA's passenger screening. Again as I said in my last post this is Optional and Voluntary!

    As written on lawyers.com "[I][U]an inspection or search carried out under a regulatory or statutory scheme esp. in public or commercial premises and usu. to enforce compliance with regulations or laws pertaining to health, safety, or security <one of the fundamental principles of administrative searches is that the government may not use an administrative inspection scheme as a pretext to search for evidence of criminal violations
    Last edited by phoenixOC; 12-11-2010 at 08:11 AM.

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    Another point to make.. If a terrorist made it to the airport with an IED and is ready to execute his/her plan then 90% of the system has already failed. This means pre operational surveillance, planning, and even dry runs have already been conducted without any knowledge to anyone. This is difficult to do in an airport environment where employees are shown how to look for surveillance indicators as well as suspicion indicators that may indicate someone is in some part of their attack plan.

    Do you have any background in security eye95?
    Last edited by phoenixOC; 12-11-2010 at 08:22 AM.

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    Regular Member buster81's Avatar
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    I've had several items confiscated by TSA since 9/11. None of them particularly dangerous.

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    -- The information I posted regarding the TSA comes from their site! It is they who say that they categorize items that may be "confiscated" as prohibited or illegal, not me. It is they who say they will call the local cops, not me. It is they who recognize that their screeners don't always offer the option to take the prohibited, not illegal, items back out of the checkpoint. Etc. Their words, not mine.

    -- The lack of successful attempts to detonate an IED on an airplane (with all the qualifications you threw in there) are not due to screening at all. What has stopped every attack (that we know of): Dumb luck, incompetent terrorists, passenger vigilance, and good intel prior to anyone making it to the checkpoint.

    -- It is not just possible that clippers were prohibited items. They were. I traveled at the time when I had to make sure that we had no sharp objects in our carry-ons at all. Nail clippers were one of the items that were listed on the sign and mentioned on the news. At one point in time, they were prohibited.

    -- I am not against screening. Please do not misrepresent what I say. I don't take to it very well. I don't respect folks who make a habit of it for the sake of "winning" discussions. I am all for screening. When the screening becomes invasive (and reasonable people should agree that making images of one's naked body and groping one's private parts constitutes invasiveness), it violates my fundamental Liberties. And that is what the terrorists are trying to accomplish: ending the freedom of American infidels that they see as being so evil. Why should we legislate what the terrorists are trying to accomplish by force?

    -- Your fear-mongering did not work. I have no problem with my family members traveling on airplanes where reasonable, not invasive, screening has been performed. As I pointed out earlier, screening has not prevented a single terrorist attack.

    -- The point I was making when discussing the "butt bomb" (which was totally missed and remains unaddressed) was that, every time we jack up how we jack up law abiding passengers, terrorists will respond by changing how they try to circumvent the screening (which is no secret), prompting an escalation in the harassment of the law abiding public. It is a vicious circle, which I have pointed out repeatedly, has not stopped a single terrorist.

    -- What is happening at TSA checkpoints highlights why we should not rely on what lawyers post on their websites, but instead argue using common sense and the Constitution in front of courts why these "administrative screenings" have crossed a line into warrantless and invasive searches. Again, these searches fail the Franklin Test on two counts as I posted earlier.

    -- I was a security policeman in the AF for a few years. We didn't have the level of security screening (and still don't) to enter an Air Force Base that the TSA has to get on a plane. Checkpoints (even invasive ones like the TSA employ) actually accomplish very little other than providing the public a false sense of security (that you seem to have bought into totally). The main tools that really provide security are intel and vigilance. Checkpoints tend to focus the vigilance at one point to the exclusion of others and, IMO, can work against good security.

    -- However, all of this is providing a nice distraction from the real point: Law abiding American citizens are having their privacy raped in a vain attempt to stop terrorists that will never provide the level of security it pretends to promise.
    Last edited by eye95; 12-11-2010 at 08:56 AM.

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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    The flight directly back from in theater almost always lands on a post somewhere.
    you've never been to Atlanta, have you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevada carrier View Post
    you've never been to Atlanta, have you?
    .... or Baltimore. There were frequent commercial flights landing there with soldiers returning for R&R. Units that are coming back en mass from deployment on MAC aircraft land at a military installations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by buster81 View Post
    The best part is his final question:

    "Can someone please tell me What the F**K happened to OUR country while we were gone?"

    Answer: We let the terrorists win. We now believe we are safe from them by having our balls groped and our nail clippers taken away. Don't even think about getting on a plane with 3.1 ounces of shampoo, or even better, 0.1 ounces of shampoo in a 3.1 ounce bottle.
    What happened to our country ?? This is what happened >>> about .0005 seconds after the Bombings on 9/11 the Terrorists had already won the war...because what happened next took away our freedoms completely. The Patriot Act ( Wire tapping American's , anyone can now be deemed an enemy combatant or Homegrown terrorist & forefit their legal rights ) was signed into law ( people I mean scared sheeple are so quick to trade away freedom for security ) followed by the Creation of the dept of Homeland Security ( I mean Fatherland Security ) <<< Created the TSA... Any other questions ???? I am shocked how fast you all forgot about this stuff...
    Last edited by GLOCK21GB; 12-11-2010 at 10:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowfiveoh View Post
    I have had treatment directed towards me like this before on a US Air flight.

    I arrived at Frankfurt Am Main International Airport ready to PCS to Fort Hood, with the express confidence that the travel agency on post had secured my tickets as is typical.

    I took the train to Frankfurt, got off, stood 2 hours in line to get to the front counter of US Air while carrying my duffle, a carry on, and a large black US Army bag.

    I get there, and lo and behold, no ticket for me. Somebody screwed up. I pull out my reservation paperwork and the agent tells me that I simply am not in their system. SO I switch to emergency mode, and move at a brisk pace to the complete, and total opposite side of the airport to get to the USO and in turn the counter that allows for me to address these kinds of issues.

    They immediately get me booked on a US Air flight after I stand in line behind some Sergeant who couldn't figure out where to take his vacation, and I offer a brief "Thanks" to the guy behind the counter as I all but run to the terminal, Polizei eying me inquisitively.

    I get my baggage checked, and barely make it to my terminal for last boarding call.

    While stepping on the plane, I look at my ticket and it clearly gives me a static seat assignment. So I make my way to the seat, and sure enough it's empty. I stow my bag and flop down in the seat, and prepare for takeoff.

    I'm there for maybe 15 minutes before a stewardess comes up and says, very rudely I might add, "Sir, this is not your seat. You need to sit in the proper seat to ensure everyone gets on the plane.".

    I am puzzled at this point, because I was literally the last person on the plane.

    So I pull out my ticket and show it to her. She glances at my seat, and then back at my ticket. Sure enough they match.

    "Well sir, this is not your seat. I will find you a vacant one elsewhere.".

    So I reply, "Ok, whatever. I just sat where the ticket assigned me to sit.". I was tired of the crap, and frankly, just happy I made it on board on time.

    So she comes back and says, "We have a spot for you at the back of the plane. Seat X Number XX".

    So I get up, grab my bag, and make my way to where she told me to sit, which was crammed up against some poor german girl.

    I settled in and me and this 30 or so year old, cute german girl start talking.

    Next thing I know, in the middle of our conversation, some bald male stewardess with a goatee comes up and says, "I hear you are giving the stewardesses a hard time?".

    Totally confused I look at the guy and ask, "What's that? Do you have me confused with someone else maybe? I have been polite and compliant to every request that the staff have made of me.".

    So the guy say's, "No I'm sure it is you. She gave me the seat number. I will be watching you. Please be aware that I can have you removed from the plane if we have any other issues with you.".

    I tell the guy, "I am just trying to fly to my next post. That's all.".


    This pissed me off so bad because I was totally polite and respectful, and complied with the stewardesses every request. I even gave up a seat that was assigned to me on my ticket.

    The comical part was the fact that the seat and accompanying seats next to it, were empty for the entire flight.


    Excuse the nice build, US Army sweater, Army carry-on bag, and polite, friendly, and compliant demeanor US Airways.

    You sure showed me who was boss...
    Should have beat the crap out of that male attendant..then claimed PTSD
    http://youtu.be/xWgVGu3OR4U AACFI, Wisconsin / Minnesota Carry Certified. Action Pistol & Advanced Action pistol concepts + Urban Carbine course. When the entitlement Zombies begin looting, pillaging, raping, burning & killing..remember HEAD SHOTS it's the only way to kill a Zombie. Stockpile food & water now.

    Please support your local,county, state & Federal Law enforcement agencies, right ???

  19. #19
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    PTSD causes a firearms disability.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Bonavia View Post
    PTSD causes a firearms disability.
    Untrue, and displaying your complete lack of knowledge of what PTSD is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Personal responsibility is a facade created by religious people in particular...
    On "Personal Responsibility just after the previous, in the same exact thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Religion uses is as a tool, they did not create it.
    The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    You think that I am ill-equipped...hit me with your best shot Einstein, I am calling you out.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    Free will is only slightly a conscious exercise...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock34 View Post
    What happened to our country ?? This is what happened >>> about .0005 seconds after the Bombings on 9/11 the Terrorists had already won the war...because what happened next took away our freedoms completely. The Patriot Act ( Wire tapping American's , anyone can now be deemed an enemy combatant or Homegrown terrorist & forefit their legal rights ) was signed into law ( people I mean scared sheeple are so quick to trade away freedom for security ) followed by the Creation of the dept of Homeland Security ( I mean Fatherland Security ) <<< Created the TSA... Any other questions ???? I am shocked how fast you all forgot about this stuff...
    I didn't forget about any of that stuff. You reiterated my point. >>>><<<<<

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
    -- The information I posted regarding the TSA comes from their site! It is they who say that they categorize items that may be "confiscated" as prohibited or illegal, not me. It is they who say they will call the local cops, not me. It is they who recognize that their screeners don't always offer the option to take the prohibited, not illegal, items back out of the checkpoint. Etc. Their words, not mine.

    -- The lack of successful attempts to detonate an IED on an airplane (with all the qualifications you threw in there) are not due to screening at all. What has stopped every attack (that we know of): Dumb luck, incompetent terrorists, passenger vigilance, and good intel prior to anyone making it to the checkpoint.

    -- It is not just possible that clippers were prohibited items. They were. I traveled at the time when I had to make sure that we had no sharp objects in our carry-ons at all. Nail clippers were one of the items that were listed on the sign and mentioned on the news. At one point in time, they were prohibited.

    -- I am not against screening. Please do not misrepresent what I say. I don't take to it very well. I don't respect folks who make a habit of it for the sake of "winning" discussions. I am all for screening. When the screening becomes invasive (and reasonable people should agree that making images of one's naked body and groping one's private parts constitutes invasiveness), it violates my fundamental Liberties. And that is what the terrorists are trying to accomplish: ending the freedom of American infidels that they see as being so evil. Why should we legislate what the terrorists are trying to accomplish by force?

    -- Your fear-mongering did not work. I have no problem with my family members traveling on airplanes where reasonable, not invasive, screening has been performed. As I pointed out earlier, screening has not prevented a single terrorist attack.

    -- The point I was making when discussing the "butt bomb" (which was totally missed and remains unaddressed) was that, every time we jack up how we jack up law abiding passengers, terrorists will respond by changing how they try to circumvent the screening (which is no secret), prompting an escalation in the harassment of the law abiding public. It is a vicious circle, which I have pointed out repeatedly, has not stopped a single terrorist.

    -- What is happening at TSA checkpoints highlights why we should not rely on what lawyers post on their websites, but instead argue using common sense and the Constitution in front of courts why these "administrative screenings" have crossed a line into warrantless and invasive searches. Again, these searches fail the Franklin Test on two counts as I posted earlier.

    -- I was a security policeman in the AF for a few years. We didn't have the level of security screening (and still don't) to enter an Air Force Base that the TSA has to get on a plane. Checkpoints (even invasive ones like the TSA employ) actually accomplish very little other than providing the public a false sense of security (that you seem to have bought into totally). The main tools that really provide security are intel and vigilance. Checkpoints tend to focus the vigilance at one point to the exclusion of others and, IMO, can work against good security.

    -- However, all of this is providing a nice distraction from the real point: Law abiding American citizens are having their privacy raped in a vain attempt to stop terrorists that will never provide the level of security it pretends to promise.

    I guess my explanation of security theater didn't carry much weight with you, so I wont bother again. I didn't voice my opinion to "win" any conversations and especially on an internet forum.

    TSA doesn't legally have the right to confiscate anything from anyone and you don't seem to understand this. Please show me on the "TSA website" where it says these items are "illegal".

    http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...ted-items.shtm

    That page doesn't have the word "illegal" used on it once. You need to learn the correct terminology if you want to continue having this conversation with me or im going to dismiss you as incompetent.

    I suppose I will spill some beans for you here. Ive worked with the TSA, but not directly for them. I know what happens and what doesn't, you don't. I've worked in many different security environments playing many different roles. Screening, regulatory, the FAM service, the BAO and TSI's, and even BDO's I have experience with. Look those acronyms up, i'm not explaining them. I have also worked with El Al airlines and am familiar with Israeli security models. Nobody knows security like El Al.

    The AIT full body scanners don't see a "naked picture". Pictures of the actual image thats seen by TSO's while operating the AIT machine look very far from a naked picture. They more closely represent an x-ray image. The private areas are filtered with computer models. They are filtered so much in fact they can't even recognize the images of their coworkers that they work with everyday. I know you want your rights and I don't blame you.. but i've seen first hand what can happen when an IED is detonated on an aircraft. The attack methodologies that have been used need to be proactiively beaten with new security methods. Period.


    The "national opt out day" was a joke. Sky Harbor saw maybe 25 protesters for only a few hours. This is hardly a protest. There was no "harassment". Please learn some facts.

    The new pat down procedure doesn't "grope" anyone. TSA employees clearly explain the pat down procedure to you as it's being done. If you don't want it to occur then why are you flying? Take a bus

    The point of the butt bomb wasn't missed. I have heard your point from hundreds of other people and honestly I see where you're coming from but it's not working anymore. The butt bomb isn't considered a threat at the present time, so why use it for a sake of argument? No type of screening has been started by TSA to find these "butt bombs" that you're speaking of.

    As for the AF security.. this is a totally different ballpark. Again, mostly security theater. Security theater isn't a false sense of security, I can guarantee you it works and there is proven data that it does. You should look into the TSA SPOT program and learn a little about that before you claim that a uniform presence isn't a deterrence. Also look up something that the TSA does as a joint venture with other agencies called VIPR's. Visual Inter-modal Prevention and Response.

    TSA employees at the TSO level don't get much in the way of intelligence. Those TSA employees at a higher pay band (F band and above right now) can receive security clearances from secret on up depending on what their position dictates.

    TSA delivers what it promises. There is no doubt about that. If TSA ever actually stopped an IED from boarding a plane it's not TSA that you should be upset with. It's the intelligence forum that you should have a gripe with.

    eye95, it seems we agree on some things and don't on others. I enjoyed the chat with you but it's clear from the terminology you use that Security in its true sense is something you know little about. Law on the other hand is something you have a good grip on. Uncle Sam does what he wants and it takes a lot to change his mind.

    It's clear that you don't like the way that TSA does it's administrative searches and I can tell you that EVERY case which has made it to the supreme court where someone claimed that AIRPORT security (before TSA as well) has violated their 4th amendment rights has LOST. TSA is here to stay and so are their policies. You won't get uncle sam to change his mind on this one

    As a closing point, if you don't like it then don't fly. Period. Flying is an option. You complain about the procedures yet you still pay for tickets and submit yourself to this type of screening. Please cry me a river.

    phoenixOC
    Last edited by phoenixOC; 12-11-2010 at 03:22 PM.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Bonavia View Post
    PTSD causes a firearms disability.
    Oddly reminiscent of another's drive-by style.

    Anyway, as I have asked before (but have not yet been answered), why are you here? You haven't discussed OC. You haven't given any indication that you have ever OCed. You don't seem to be advocating for any kind of carry or for the RKBA. So...why do you post on this site?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixOC View Post
    I guess my explanation of security theater didn't carry much weight with you, so I wont bother again. I didn't voice my opinion to "win" any conversations and especially on an internet forum.

    TSA doesn't legally have the right to confiscate anything from anyone and you don't seem to understand this. Please show me on the "TSA website" where it says these items are "illegal".

    http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...ted-items.shtm

    That page doesn't have the word "illegal" used on it once. You need to learn the correct terminology if you want to continue having this conversation with me or im going to dismiss you as incompetent.

    I suppose I will spill some beans for you here. Ive worked with the TSA, but not directly for them. I know what happens and what doesn't, you don't. I've worked in many different security environments playing many different roles. Screening, regulatory, the FAM service, the BAO and TSI's, and even BDO's I have experience with. Look those acronyms up, i'm not explaining them. I have also worked with El Al airlines and am familiar with Israeli security models. Nobody knows security like El Al.

    The AIT full body scanners don't see a "naked picture". Pictures of the actual image thats seen by TSO's while operating the AIT machine look very far from a naked picture. They more closely represent an x-ray image. The private areas are filtered with computer models. They are filtered so much in fact they can't even recognize the images of their coworkers that they work with everyday. I know you want your rights and I don't blame you.. but i've seen first hand what can happen when an IED is detonated on an aircraft. The attack methodologies that have been used need to be proactiively beaten with new security methods. Period.


    The "national opt out day" was a joke. Sky Harbor saw maybe 25 protesters for only a few hours. This is hardly a protest. There was no "harassment". Please learn some facts.

    The new pat down procedure doesn't "grope" anyone. TSA employees clearly explain the pat down procedure to you as it's being done. If you don't want it to occur then why are you flying? Take a bus

    The point of the butt bomb wasn't missed. I have heard your point from hundreds of other people and honestly I see where you're coming from but it's not working anymore. The butt bomb isn't considered a threat at the present time, so why use it for a sake of argument? No type of screening has been started by TSA to find these "butt bombs" that you're speaking of.

    As for the AF security.. this is a totally different ballpark. Again, mostly security theater. Security theater isn't a false sense of security, I can guarantee you it works and there is proven data that it does. You should look into the TSA SPOT program and learn a little about that before you claim that a uniform presence isn't a deterrence. Also look up something that the TSA does as a joint venture with other agencies called VIPR's. Visual Inter-modal Prevention and Response.

    TSA employees at the TSO level don't get much in the way of intelligence. Those TSA employees at a higher pay band (F band and above right now) can receive security clearances from secret on up depending on what their position dictates.

    TSA delivers what it promises. There is no doubt about that. If TSA ever actually stopped an IED from boarding a plane it's not TSA that you should be upset with. It's the intelligence forum that you should have a gripe with.

    eye95, it seems we agree on some things and don't on others. I enjoyed the chat with you but it's clear from the terminology you use that Security in its true sense is something you know little about. Law on the other hand is something you have a good grip on. Uncle Sam does what he wants and it takes a lot to change his mind.

    It's clear that you don't like the way that TSA does it's administrative searches and I can tell you that EVERY case which has made it to the supreme court where someone claimed that AIRPORT security (before TSA as well) has violated their 4th amendment rights has LOST. TSA is here to stay and so are their policies. You won't get uncle sam to change his mind on this one

    As a closing point, if you don't like it then don't fly. Period. Flying is an option. You complain about the procedures yet you still pay for tickets and submit yourself to this type of screening. Please cry me a river.

    phoenixOC
    I wonder why my brother, who works for TSA and gets hassled for it every time we call each other, calls BS on the "facts" in this post..............

    He was glad to see that you're willing to be one of the sheep though who doesn't believe they should have any rights.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    .... or Baltimore. There were frequent commercial flights landing there with soldiers returning for R&R. Units that are coming back en mass from deployment on MAC aircraft land at a military installations.
    I'm not saying that many flights don't land on military installations, but frequently even MAC flights land at commercial airports as well. The MAC flight from Kadena and Yakota Airbases lands and departs weekly from Seattle. Granted this is not a flight that originates from a theater of war, but they don't always land on military installations.

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