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Thread: Self Defense on A Motorcycle

  1. #1
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    Self Defense on A Motorcycle

    I am trying to ask this delicately. I dont want anyone (particularly the mods) to get mad, or get the wrong idea like I'm some blood hungry, trigger happy, bad ass 1 percent biker, and I am not trying to start something here.

    So, delicately, when could a person use a firearm for self defense on a motorcycle?

    I ride, i carry, most of the time its concealed however, and I thought we could play the "what if" and "scenario" game. I know I am not the only one who carries while riding, so this could benefit all of us.

    Besides being motorcycle-jacked at a stoplight under gunpoint, what other times would it be legal to do so?
    Last edited by Whirlybird818; 12-08-2010 at 07:43 PM.

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    what if ?????

    I ride also. What if it were legal to shoot when they are 2 feet off your a$$$. What if you are in the right lane and a car is in the left lane and an a$$$hole passes between the 2 of you. What if you could shoot when they cut you off??
    Too many circumstances to list. Cars just don't like us, or see us.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    I'd think that the Arizona standard of fear of serious bodily harm or death would apply.

    Now I seriously doubt you could use that as a justification in the event of a traffic accident "He was coming right for me so I shot him" "He cut me off and I was in fear of my life so I shot him" "He was tailgating and I was in fear of my life so I shot him"
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    I've OC'd regularly while operating my motorcycle! It is amazing to me the amount of room most give you ONCE THEY NOTICE THE HOLSTERED FIREARM on my hip!

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I've OC'd regularly while operating my motorcycle! It is amazing to me the amount of room most give you ONCE THEY NOTICE THE HOLSTERED FIREARM on my hip!
    I've noticed the same reaction from nearby motorists once they see my RIA 1911 or SIG P220 in OC. A surprising number of motorcyclist in Tucson OC while on city streets.

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    So long as you're still upright and moving, there's no problem on a motorcycle that could be solved with a gun, that couldn't better be solved with superior acceleration and maneuverability.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    So long as you're still upright and moving, there's no problem on a motorcycle that could be solved with a gun, that couldn't better be solved with superior acceleration and maneuverability.
    I would tend to agree here. It's a lot quicker to roll on than it is to try and draw and shoot one-handed and still remain upright.

    Additionally, I cover my firearm with protective gear while riding (still able to draw quickly if REALLY needed - with both feet on the ground) in the event of a laydown. At least firearm might be protected to some extent.

    My biggest peeve is when it is so effing cold at night that I have to wear gloves: in the event I needed to present quickly it would be really difficult as I have huge hands so with an extra layer of leather my trigger finger is too big to fit through the guard on a full-size Glock.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    So long as you're still upright and moving, there's no problem on a motorcycle that could be solved with a gun, that couldn't better be solved with superior acceleration and maneuverability.
    I average close to 18,000 miles a year on the GW and I agree with you. However, there are times when the mere sight of a hand gun can be a plus when riding the "mean streets" on a motorcycle. It's too bad your legislators won't give Texas bikers that same option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    I average close to 18,000 miles a year on the GW and I agree with you. However, there are times when the mere sight of a hand gun can be a plus when riding the "mean streets" on a motorcycle. It's too bad your legislators won't give Texas bikers that same option.
    With that kind of mileage, you do a lot of "traveling". In Texas, traveling is exempt from PC 46.02, so there's no requirement to conceal while traveling.


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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    So long as you're still upright and moving, there's no problem on a motorcycle that could be solved with a gun, that couldn't better be solved with superior acceleration and maneuverability.
    I'd have to agree. While a great many accidents are caused by cagers not paying attention, those same accidents can also be avoided by a rider who IS paying attention.

    Almost all of the gory motorcycles accidents we see and hear about, usually involve both a cager who isn't paying attention, and some weekend warrior on two wheels who thinks and rides like he's in a car too.

    Although I've encountered a handful of bought-and-paid-for Soccer Moms in SUVs who look right at me, grin, and then do their damnedest to hit me on purpose; that's the exception, not the rule.

    Ninja +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    With that kind of mileage, you do a lot of "traveling". In Texas, traveling is exempt from PC 46.02, so there's no requirement to conceal while traveling.

    In Arizona I gotta' got about 250-400 miles just to leave the state. (South into Mexico is never considered) So any ride east toward Texas, say Van Horn, is close to 450 miles - about one load of gas on my GW with extra fuel tank. A full ride across Texas is two days to Orange., then a 400 mile shot across Louisiana/Mississippi/Alabama to Pensacola Florida. All Interstate highway with GPS, Satellite radio and I-POD to entertain me.

    I can hit San Diego from Tucson on one full load of gas - 330 miles. Tucson to Las Vegas - 425 miles.

    In many areas of the southwest gasoline stations are few and far between, so the extra tank is gladly needed.

    Now, back to original topic..

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    Quote Originally Posted by ixtow View Post
    I'd have to agree. While a great many accidents are caused by cagers not paying attention, those same accidents can also be avoided by a rider who IS paying attention.

    Almost all of the gory motorcycles accidents we see and hear about, usually involve both a cager who isn't paying attention, and some weekend warrior on two wheels who thinks and rides like he's in a car too.

    Although I've encountered a handful of bought-and-paid-for Soccer Moms in SUVs who look right at me, grin, and then do their damnedest to hit me on purpose; that's the exception, not the rule.

    Ninja +1
    Got a Kawasaki Ninja, eh and you claim to be 6'4 tall. Aren't you a bit "Scrunched Up" on that 250CC Ninja?

    Just asking.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    Got a Kawasaki Ninja, eh and you claim to be 6'4 tall. Aren't you a bit "Scrunched Up" on that 250CC Ninja?

    Just asking.
    I am 6'6" and my Vulcan 1600 Nomad still seems a bit scrunchy...I must admit I am jealous of your gas mileage...on mine I can get 40mpg on a good day, usually closer to 35 at highway speeds with full bags (of course like I said, I am a heavy sucker).

    :guns are cool: <-- there, this post is on topic
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Given the realities of operating a motorcycle when faced with a hostile driver, I'd be pretty reluctant to "fill my hand" when I already had both hands full of grips/throttle/clutch/brake.

    Speaking of... are you right handed, or lefty? It's sure going to matter, unless you've got a throttle lock. Most righties really suck at shooting weak-hand-only. And how fast can you re-holster one handed? If you have to take evasive action, are you going to do so with one hand, or just toss the gun?

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by rickc1962; 12-12-2010 at 09:40 PM.

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    If you ever want dismal mileage and crappy ergonomics in the seat to bar relationship area, by all means ride a TL1000S.

    Now don't get me wrong, I loved my TL because of the nasty it was, and out of the 20+ bikes I have owned, it is amongst the most memorable.

    However, the damn thing got 35mpg, and even @ 28 years old an hour ride beat the crap out of my wrist. The bonus was anywhere between 1st and 4th it really didn't care where you were in the powerband much, just twist 1-3, and chop 4th, and you got a high powered unicycle spotlight.

    To the topic, I usually ride what I have always referred to as Offensive/Defensive.

    To the aspects of defensive riding, we know and attempt to exercise the following.

    -Knowledge and observation of all obstacles around us at all times. (Are you boxed in by multiple vehicles? Do you have an escape route?)
    -Lane position as relative to road (Straight? Curve? Where are you in relation to centerline?)
    -Speed. (Are you traveling at an acceptable rate of speed given road/weather conditions?)

    To the aspects of offensive, I offer the following:

    -Cage drivers do not typically operate in an environment of total concentration. There are times where YOU must make the appropriate decision. Decide what happens for them.
    -Command your lane. Any encroachment demands action/response.

    I am not sure where I stand as to the topic about firing from a bike in motion. I don't really think it's a good idea as unless you are on a loaded down bagger or Skirtster 883, anything as fast or faster than a 5.0 Mustang shouldn't be too much problem, and you have no other choice but to stop the threat.

    Kind of hard to draw, aim, and fire in the split seconds that normally comprise a traffic scenario, especially when ones instinctual reaction SHOULD be seeking an escape route, especially on a motorcycle.

    I've been riding since I was 4 (1984 ATC70), and my first streetbike was a 1988 CBR600F (Hurricane) I scooted around on when I was 16 up through 21.

    That being said, I have never confirmed my commentary to be worth more than .02

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    Quote Originally Posted by rickc1962 View Post
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    i think someone identified that sheriff's car as a Texas jurisdiction. The motorcycle colors sure match UT.

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    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GWbiker View Post
    Got a Kawasaki Ninja, eh and you claim to be 6'4 tall. Aren't you a bit "Scrunched Up" on that 250CC Ninja?

    Just asking.
    It was like a clown car.....for 43,000 miles.

    I find all bikes to be luxurious and comfortable now.

    And it's not a 250 anymore. ;-)
    Last edited by ixtow; 12-14-2010 at 01:09 AM.

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    Yes but what about Triads, Yakuza, and/or Ninjas?

    OK, what if you're completely airborne on your motorcycle and you are about to land on the back of a flatbed truck, except the aforementioned Triads, Yakuza, and/or Ninjas are on the flatbed truck?

    And, okay, say you have an A-list actress riding with you and she's in form-fitting leather and she says, "You better take care of those Triads, Yakuza, and/or Ninjas."

    The Triads, Yakuza, and/or Ninjas draw their swords and point it at your motorcycle, now a mere 70 or 80 feet from landing, having launched off of the back of the incline you find on truck trailers, such as those designed to transport cars.

    Can you, then, draw and fire, say in a hypothetical instance where you are fighting for America and God and All Mankind?

    I would think in a state that has made progress in the area of gun rights, there should be a provision somewhere, perhaps in the penumbras and emanations of existing statutes, that the State of Arizona recognizes the right to employ a firearm in defense against Triads, Yakuza, and/or Ninjas in the event you are fighting for America and God and All Mankind while airborne on a motorcycle with a very hot A-list actress in form fitting leather holding on to your waist.

    And if indeed we cannot find this in the penumbras and emanations of existing statutes, I would like to formally request that the AzCDL pursue this in the Arizona state legislature.

    And don't even say, "it can't happen here." Famous last words.
    Last edited by crisisweasel; 12-14-2010 at 04:09 PM.

  20. #20
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    BTW, I have the same opinion about shooting from a car: if you're not pinned in, your best defense is already in your hands. No need to reach for a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomtaurus View Post
    I ride also. What if it were legal to shoot when they are 2 feet off your a$$$.
    I OC a 1911A1 when I ride. I don't get tailgated a lot, but when someone comes too close, I will adjust the holster on my belt. People generally decide not to crowd me, after their attention has been drawn to the pistol.

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    Riding a Road King on I-70 outside of Denver I had one of those "should I or shouldn't I" moments like you're describing. A man tried to cut me off, I didn't budge, and he began swerving at me. He screamed, he shouted, and he drove partially in my lane.

    Unyielding to his encroachment, I remember thinking "would he do this if he knew I was carrying 20+ rds of 10mm?" That was my "open carry" moment, FWIW. I had the cruise control on (right hand free) and began running through scenarios in my mind.

    As others have said, maneuverability and power are to your advantage. If he had followed me to the gas station...different story. But, he was driving a minivan and that to me is a much worse fate than a 10mm rd to the face.

    Any shots from a moving motorcycle would be extremely hard to justify.

  23. #23
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    Shots from a motorcycle could be justified

    I can envision a scenario where you have armed assailants, perhaps gang members both in front and behind you, both firing at you and some distance away. You cannot exit the sides due to obstacles. Firing at the people shooting at you, in order to make them take cover/reduce their accuracy as you pass, would be justifiable.

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    Am I to believe NO bikers in AZ carry spare parts for their bikes? I mean a responsible biker would always have a spark plug or two in their vest pocket, or an 1 1/2 in flat washer or 10.
    Just remember to be safe, if these spare parts happened to fall out of your pocket after a pothole an hit the windshield of a dangerous person it would be a shame.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by KBCraig View Post
    With that kind of mileage, you do a lot of "traveling". In Texas, traveling is exempt from PC 46.02, so there's no requirement to conceal while traveling.
    Yes there is such a requirement. The law states that the firearm must not be readily observable.

    Your advice will get him arrested in Texas.
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