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Thread: is your weapon going to stop a gun fight?

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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    is your weapon going to stop a gun fight?

    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Great read, thank you for posting. There is something to be said for the difficult yet effective head shot.

    I like to use bad guy targets to practice a vertical string of 3-5 shots starting from the abdomen and working up to the head, pretty much riding the recoil upwards, essentially just pointing the bullets in a line, and walking them to the head. I do this from a fast draw hip shooting stance right up close, while charging the targets, as well as while running side to side which is by far the hardest. Whether or not that type of practice would apply well to this or a similar situation, I consider myself lucky not to have to know from experience. But I've never heard a strategy that I feel would work better to practice.

    2 other thoughts from a veteran I respect a lot who posts on another forum.

    "When in doubt, empty the magazine"

    also

    "Don't stop shooting until you see brains"
    Last edited by Michigander; 12-08-2010 at 11:24 PM.
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  3. #3
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    Always have cover, you never know when you are in a gun fight with Super Man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Great read, thank you for posting. There is something to be said for the difficult yet effective head shot.

    I like to use bad guy targets to practice a vertical string of 3-5 shots starting from the abdomen and working up to the head, pretty much riding the recoil upwards, essentially just pointing the bullets in a line, and walking them to the head. I do this from a fast draw hip shooting stance right up close, while charging the targets, as well as while running side to side which is by far the hardest. Whether or not that type of practice would apply well to this or a similar situation, I consider myself lucky not to have to know from experience. But I've never heard a strategy that I feel would work better to practice.

    2 other thoughts from a veteran I respect a lot who posts on another forum.

    "When in doubt, empty the magazine"

    also

    "Don't stop shooting until you see brains"
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    I read the story & it makes one aware of just how tough the human body is. 17 hits center mass with 40Cal Ranger SXT's rounds and the bad guy is still alive? All the more reason to carry a 2nd, 3rd or 4th firearm.

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    Regular Member Nikki_Black's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock9mmOldStyle View Post
    I read the story & it makes one aware of just how tough the human body is. 17 hits center mass with 40Cal Ranger SXT's rounds and the bad guy is still alive? All the more reason to carry a 2nd, 3rd or 4th firearm.
    This times 100000.
    If you're out of ammo and the BG is still firing, you're SOL.

  6. #6
    Regular Member cmdr_iceman71's Avatar
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    I read the aforementioned story earlier this year, shortly after I began OCing, and after reading it, I was inspired to be far more cognizant of the type of personal defense ammo I carry as well as ensure I’m carrying a small arsenal’s worth around my waist.
    "Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples' liberty's teeth." - President George Washington

    "Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty." - Thomas Jefferson

    "He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself." - Thomas Paine

  7. #7
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
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    "He who has the most ammo, wins"
    "He who runs out of ammo just lost"
    "He who can't fight back, lost"
    "If you have ammo and the bad guy doesn't, you're in control"

    "I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it"

  8. #8
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I have been criticized for strapping on 3 extra magazines when I even go to walmart. To me it's better to have over 50 rounds than run out, Call me simple. I also don't like those Ranger sxt rounds, yea I know the religious Ranger Zealots will tell me they are the best round on earth, but in N.I.J. studies I saw they were not that good. I stick with Corbons for a factory round, or my own loads which pack slightly more punch. I don't shoot to stop wet telephone books, or Jello (ballistic gelatin) I shoot to stop vicious living things bent on my destruction. These things have far more water mass in their tissue than any telephone book I ever met, and more than any block of jello I ever shot. But I also have a backup cannon loaded with 1534 + FPS rounds that push those lovely 125 grain semi JHP's which still today in NIJ studies are hands down the most effective one shot man stoppers. I carry that 357 Magnum just in case the perp is uncooperative and won't lay down.


    Quote Originally Posted by dougwg View Post
    "He who has the most ammo, wins"
    "He who runs out of ammo just lost"
    "He who can't fight back, lost"
    "If you have ammo and the bad guy doesn't, you're in control"

    "I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it"
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  9. #9
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    I carry 36 rounds for my primary and 25 for my large bug... my small bug has another 15 rounds... this gives me a total of 76 rounds... 15 of which are .22 Mag... the rest are 9mm..
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Regular Member DanM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    "Don't stop shooting until you see brains"
    Ten out of ten OC'ing zombies agree!
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    "The principle of self-defense, even involving weapons and bloodshed, has never been condemned, even by Gandhi . . ."--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr

    “He who cannot protect himself or his nearest and dearest or their honor by non-violently facing death, may and ought to do so by violently dealing with the oppressor. He who can do neither of the two is a burden.”--M. K. Gandhi

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." --M. K. Gandhi

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    I forgot the 4 to 5 HKS speed loaders (357 Magnum) that I also carry. Wow I carry over 82 rounds lol I never realized I carried that much. I always forget to count the backup weapons rounds.


    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    I carry 36 rounds for my primary and 25 for my large bug... my small bug has another 15 rounds... this gives me a total of 76 rounds... 15 of which are .22 Mag... the rest are 9mm..
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    Always have cover, you never know when you are in a gun fight with Super Man.
    if my bullets start bouncing of his eyes i think i might just run away.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Ten out of ten OC'ing zombies agree!
    indeed!

    i carry 2 spare magazines for a total of 46 rounds.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Me to, @ 34rd. XD and theres usually an extra box in the car. Funny thing, when I go to the range, that box always comes up missing.
    Last edited by stainless1911; 12-09-2010 at 04:37 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Coded-Dude's Avatar
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    15 rounds for my .38 S&W - (Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 +P 130gr JHP / HKS Speedloader)

    Ideally I want to carry:
    32 rounds for my .45 S&W 1911 - (?)
    However that would mean carrying 4 loaded clips on my belt since LOC is illegal here and I have yet to file for "loaded carry"(waiting on the 1911 before I try). I may end up only going with 24 rounds

    I get the 1911 out of jail on Saturday and haven't made up my mind on a Self Defense round

    [edit] i put 40...i meant 45 also this is from the article:

    Be ready to beat him over the head with your empty gun, gouge his eyes out, or even thrash his throat with your patrol knife, if necessary.
    Last edited by Coded-Dude; 12-09-2010 at 05:24 PM.
    If guns cause crime.....mine must be defective.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanM View Post
    Ten out of ten OC'ing zombies agree!
    In this case, it would be 10 out of 10 dead Viet Kong and Iraqi rebels. The empty the magazine saying was his dad's from vietnam, and the brain one was his. This attitude kept both of them alive as I understand it.
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    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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    I carry a 15rd and 17rd mags for my glock 19 and i have an additional mag i might carry in my pocket or jacket havent found a mag holder for that big mag yet

  17. #17
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    No, my weapon is not going to stop a gun fight. It, all by itself, can't do squat.

    It is my brain and my thinking/processing abilities that will win, or lose, the day regardless of what weapon(s) I bring, how many of them I bring, how big/small they are, and how much/little ammo I brought for them

    Entirely too often folks get lost in thinking the gun and it's accessories is the self defense weapon. It isn't. The most important self defense weapon is the thing between our ears..................
    Last edited by Bikenut; 12-13-2010 at 06:01 PM.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    No, my weapon is not going to stop a gun fight. It, all by itself, can't do squat.

    It is my brain and my thinking/processing abilities that will win, or lose, the day regardless of what weapon(s) I bring, how many of them I bring, how big/small they are, and how much/little ammo I brought for them

    Entirely too often folks get lost in thinking the gun and it's accessories is the self defense weapon. It isn't. The most important self defense weapon is the thing between our ears..................

    Yep the hardware is useless without the software to go with it!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    or you could just use a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    However that would mean carrying 4 loaded clips on my belt since LOC is illegal here and I have yet to file for "loaded carry"(waiting on the 1911 before I try).
    What is LOC?

  21. #21
    Regular Member Recoil88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry25 View Post
    What is LOC?
    LOC is loaded open carry.
    In a situation when seconds count-The police will be there in minutes.

  22. #22
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Not trying to derail the thread but somebody brought a bunch of American Rifleman magazines from the '60s and '70s into work. In reading the "Armed Citizen" section it's interesting to note that the vast majority of the people in the those stories that had to defend themselves with a firearm did so with a .22.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. – Thomas Paine

  23. #23
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    Not trying to derail the thread but somebody brought a bunch of American Rifleman magazines from the '60s and '70s into work. In reading the "Armed Citizen" section it's interesting to note that the vast majority of the people in the those stories that had to defend themselves with a firearm did so with a .22.

    Bronson
    Did it "stop" the perp in his tracks or cause him to flea. My guess is with a .22 if the perp isn't himself armed he'd flea.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coded-Dude View Post
    15 rounds for my .38 S&W - (Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 +P 130gr JHP / HKS Speedloader)

    Ideally I want to carry:
    32 rounds for my .45 S&W 1911 - (?)
    However that would mean carrying 4 loaded clips on my belt since LOC is illegal here and I have yet to file for "loaded carry"(waiting on the 1911 before I try). I may end up only going with 24 rounds

    I get the 1911 out of jail on Saturday and haven't made up my mind on a Self Defense round

    [edit] i put 40...i meant 45 also this is from the article:
    magazines,,,,,sorry for being a terminology nazi,,,,,,

    golden sabre, gold dot, hornady TAP red or black box, winchester silver tip or ranger, federal hydra-shok, corbon and several others are great rounds. but when i had a .45ACP it was 230gr golden sabre rounds. they fed and cycled perfectly without any trouble in ejection or extraction. through several guns kimber, nighthawk, sig 1911 springfield armory.

    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    Yep the hardware is useless without the software to go with it!
    good point!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Bailenforcer View Post
    I have been criticized for strapping on 3 extra magazines when I even go to walmart. To me it's better to have over 50 rounds than run out, Call me simple. I also don't like those Ranger sxt rounds, yea I know the religious Ranger Zealots will tell me they are the best round on earth, but in N.I.J. studies I saw they were not that good. I stick with Corbons for a factory round, or my own loads which pack slightly more punch. I don't shoot to stop wet telephone books, or Jello (ballistic gelatin) I shoot to stop vicious living things bent on my destruction. These things have far more water mass in their tissue than any telephone book I ever met, and more than any block of jello I ever shot. But I also have a backup cannon loaded with 1534 + FPS rounds that push those lovely 125 grain semi JHP's which still today in NIJ studies are hands down the most effective one shot man stoppers. I carry that 357 Magnum just in case the perp is uncooperative and won't lay down.
    That reminds me of my incident.LEO's were amazed that I carried 2 extra mags,said I was armed for war.I was amazed at their amazement!When they asked why, I told them in case I need em! DUH!I've heard them say that several times!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

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