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Thread: No longer confident OCing in my own city

  1. #1
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Exclamation No longer confident OCing in my own city

    So last week I was arrested for "Resisting a Public Officer" by pulling away while a local officer was trying to illegally search me (Not OCing at the time). Ive got my date in court but the exspernce has had an interesting effect. I no longer feel comfortable OCing in my own city. After witnessing a local police officer violate my 4A rights so carelessly it disturbed me and what will they do. If they wont respect my 4A rights whats to mean they will my 2A rights? Plus I know how they talk?

    Advice?
    Last edited by Sc0tt; 12-09-2010 at 09:17 PM.
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    So last week I was arrested for "Resisting a Public Officer" by pulling away while a local officer was trying to illegally search me (Not OCing at the time). Ive got my date in court but the exspernce has had an interesting effect. I no longer feel comfortable OCing in my own city. After witnessing a local police officer violate my 14A rights so carelessly it disturbed me and what will they do. If they wont respect my 14A rights whats to mean they will my 2A rights? Plus I know how they talk?

    Advice?
    You should contact an attorney. Assuming you didn't actually do anything wrong, you should counter sue for civil rights violation. More info is needed on what actually occured during the event.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    I dont need advice on the 4A violation, I plan on dealing with it. I am no longer comfortable OCing becuase the local police have violated one set of rights whats to stop them from violating my 2A rights while OC
    Last edited by Sc0tt; 12-09-2010 at 09:18 PM.
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    I dont need advice on the 14A violation, I plan on dealing with it. I am no longer comfortable OCing becuase the local police have violated one set of rights whats to stop them from violating my 2A rights while OC
    Actually stop them, other than the threat of a lawsuit? Nothing.But that has always been the case. The only thing that has changed is you switched from the list of people yet to be violated to the list of people yet to be violated again.
    Last edited by Darkshadow62988; 12-09-2010 at 03:14 AM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member hydroxside's Avatar
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    Wow for what reason did u pull away from an officer. I know what he was doing was wrong if you did not consent to the search if that would have been me I would have told him I did not agree or consent to the search but let him do it anyway then I would have talked to his SO aand make a rrreport so I would get charged with RaPo but......... on the other had about OCing just think if you don't OC the possabilties of you getting into something where u will need your firearm you will rregret it if you r still alive from the encounter just stay the course bro the police can't. Be everywear all the time.

  6. #6
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    Agency?

    What agency was this? Curious as I live in Randleman. Also, If you don't feel comfortable posting the officer's name here would you pm me with it, I know a lot of officers in the area, and hope that none of my friends are guilty of treating a citizen like this.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by hydroxside View Post
    I know what he was doing was wrong if you did not consent to the search if that would have been me I would have told him I did not agree or consent to the search but let him do it anyway then I would have talked to his SO aand make a rrreport so I would get charged with RaPo but.........
    As aggravating as it is, it's probably better to let the finish and illegal search and file a complaint or lawsuit after the fact. You come out with no charges and nothing to make you look like the badguy to a jury. As it stands, you would have to explain away the charges and explain what the LEO did wrong. Since I was not there I can't say you handled it right or wrong. Or that I would have done it differently. Just something to think about. As for OC. How much you are willing to deal with is entirely up to you.

  8. #8
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    This is exactly why you need to ALWAYS have video and audio recorder available. Turn your audio on ANY time you see an officer approaching you and you think there might be a confrontation.

    If/when they are doing anything illegal, make it clear on the audio recording. "officer ___name here___, I DO NOT consent to your search of my person, but I will not resist you", "officer ___name here___, am I being detained? Am I free to go? I do not consent to you disarming me since I am carrying legally and am not committing a crime, but I will not resist" etc....

    make your case clear on tape, and even better, encourage him/her to admit that they are breaking the law.

    You do NOT have to tell them you are recording them in NC by the way.

    Come join us Saturday at Stameys for OC meetup and try to regain your confidence.

  9. #9
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sapper217 View Post
    What agency was this? Curious as I live in Randleman. Also, If you don't feel comfortable posting the officer's name here would you pm me with it, I know a lot of officers in the area, and hope that none of my friends are guilty of treating a citizen like this.
    Sent you a PM about it

    Very good point people, and ive been puting off getting a audio recorder Im going to have to now.

    Of course I will be at Stameys, The organizer has to be there
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  10. #10
    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Scott, I'm begging you...

    Find a qualified self-defense instructor and take a NC CHP class--if for no other reason than to get educated on the law.

    And you need to find a good attorney ASAP.

    You're obviously on some "list" with your local LEA, and the harassment will not stop until you get "official" with them.

    I don't know if you've done something to get on the bad side of your local LEA, but that's not the issue.

    The issue is that LEAs don't understand reason. They don't understand individual rights. They don't respond to your petty little complaints, or letters or personal visits to "discuss the law" with the Chief of Police.

    The ONLY thing these people respond to is the serious threat of legal action, and a potential threat of having to pay out a HUGE Federal Civil Rights settlement. And the ONLY way to accomplish that is a few letters on the letterhead of a NC Bar-certified attorney.

    Lawyer-up, bro. The system is set up to almost guarantee you will lose if you take this on your own...

    And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, take a CC course. I'm begging you...
    Last edited by Dreamer; 12-09-2010 at 03:18 PM.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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  11. #11
    Regular Member rotorhead's Avatar
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    Well I see one problem: If you carry a half dozen donuts with you, you could have tossed one out on the street while you drove away. By the time he finished it and looked around, you'd be long gone and forgotten

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    Quote Originally Posted by rotorhead View Post
    Well I see one problem: If you carry a half dozen donuts with you, you could have tossed one out on the street while you drove away. By the time he finished it and looked around, you'd be long gone and forgotten

  13. #13
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer View Post
    PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, Scott, I'm begging you...

    Find a qualified self-defense instructor and take a NC CHP class--if for no other reason than to get educated on the law.

    And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, take a CC course. I'm begging you...
    IDK why people are so far up my rear about taking classes and getting educated on the law, I am a Certified Armed Security Guard with the state, I have studied (and passed state exams ) [on] the stautes on lethal use of force, detainment, ect, ect

    I know everyone says this but its not me its them Im going to name the agency ASHEBORO POLICE are out of control. Arrest in the area for resisting arrest and ATOTP are up almost triple (I found out after talking with a lawyer today)

    I am moving out of this area anyways
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  14. #14
    Regular Member smlawrence's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    IDK why people are so far up my rear about taking classes and getting educated on the law, I am a Certified Armed Security Guard with the state, I have studied (and passed state exams ) [on] the stautes on lethal use of force, detainment, ect, ect

    I know everyone says this but its not me its them Im going to name the agency ASHEBORO POLICE are out of control. Arrest in the area for resisting arrest and ATOTP are up almost triple (I found out after talking with a lawyer today)

    I am moving out of this area anyways
    I think one point he is trying to exercise is that "Physically" resisting the search was illegal. Granted what he was doing was wrong, following it up by doing something wrong yourself put you from a bad situation into a much worse situation. Plus there are more complaints that a Lawyer will be able to come up with when confronting the LEA other that just the 4A Violation.

    I certainly wouldn't let that stop me from OC'ing. I would be sure to carry the audio recorder, do alot of OC'ing with a friend or family member tagging along. I don't want to say go out looking to try to catch a LEO doing wrong, but I would certainly be able to prove it the next time it happened.

    I used to live in Trasheboro and I don't miss it a single lick. I got pulled over once because the officer thought I had someone riding with me. Pulled me over, was looking behind the seat, under the seat, and was furious because noone was with me. I told him that sounded like a B.S. excuse to search my singlecab truck.

    Keep your head, think hard and in advance, and good luck with handling this previous violation.
    "God, Guns, & Guts Made America, Lets Use All 3!!!"

  15. #15
    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sc0tt View Post
    1. IDK why people are so far up my rear about taking classes and getting educated on the law, ~snip~

    2. I am a Certified Armed Security Guard with the state,
    1. I'll say it if no-one else will. You getting arrested for "Resisting a Public Officer" is in no way what we try to project on OCDO.org, especially as a trained armed security guard.

    You did not take into account any of the advice you have received here. If you had, you would not have been arrested or even on the light side, you would have posted the specifics of your arrest, which you have not.

    This is not the 'poor me' forum.

    You ask for advice on an 'ambiguous' confrontation without specifics. We're not lawyers here, just 2A friendly folks trying to exercise our rights. You state you weren't OC'ing and you don't have a CHP, so why are you even posting in this forum?? Is your arrest relevant to any ANY topic that we discuss here?

    Just doesn't jive. Your quote: (Not OCing at the time), not mine.

    If the popo violated your 4A rights, how so? Does it include RTKBA?

    """"The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is the part of the Bill of Rights which guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. The amendment specifically also requires search and arrest warrants be judicially sanctioned and supported by probable cause. It was adopted as a response to the abuse of the writ of assistance, which is a type of general search warrant, in the American Revolution. Search and arrest should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer, who has sworn by it.""""

    I'm confused.

    2. So you're an armed security guard who needs to be educated a bit more on 4A and 2A. So what? The majority of the folks that post here understand 2A and 4A. Your situation has nothing to do with anything we talk about here.

    Take the advice of the people on the NC and OCDO.org forums. I learn something new everytime I open NC.

    Last edited by razor_baghdad; 12-09-2010 at 10:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor_baghdad View Post
    [1.] you would have posted the specifics of your arrest, which you have not.

    This is not the 'poor me' forum.

    [2]You ask for advice on an 'ambiguous' confrontation without specifics.

    [3]you don't have a CHP, so why are you even posting in this forum??

    [4]Is your arrest relevant to any ANY topic that we discuss here?

    [5]If the popo violated your 4A rights, how so? Does it include RTKBA?
    [6]2˘
    1. No I havnt posted the details of my arrest and it is not relevant and I have SAID THIS, READ BEFORE YOU POST.
    I dont need advice on the 4A violation, I plan on dealing with it. I am no longer comfortable OCing becuase the local police have violated one set of rights whats to stop them from violating my 2A rights while OC
    I am asking for advice on should I cont to OC in my city despite several local LEO's who have no respect for my 4A right so whats to say they will respect my 2A rights? It is not my intention to have a poor me post.

    2. Becuase Im not asking about adivce on an ambiguous' confrontation (see # 1)

    3.Becuase this is an OPEN CARRY fourm if I wanted to talk about CC I would goto a CC fourm. A CHP has nothing to do with ones right to OC.

    4. Not really but once again see #1

    5.See #1

    6. While I know your in-titeled to it doesnt mean I have to respect it and you dont have to be such an ass about it

    *Hey 50 Post! Yay!
    Last edited by Sc0tt; 12-10-2010 at 12:43 AM. Reason: added 50 post and quote
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  17. #17
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    No longer confident OCing in my own city
    Me either... Even still I can't since they took my gun...

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...on-while-OCing

  18. #18
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calynn View Post
    Me either... Even still I can't since they took my gun...

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...on-while-OCing
    I remember reading this but I dont remember hearing that they seized the weapon, Im going to have nightmares now
    Last edited by Sc0tt; 12-10-2010 at 12:52 AM.
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  19. #19
    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    Red face sorry

    Didn't mean to be an ass. We just don't have any details about why you were arrested in the first place and for some reason you refuse to post the details.

    OC at will and don't be afraid. It's legal.

    Happy 50th!

  20. #20
    Regular Member Sc0tt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor_baghdad View Post
    Didn't mean to be an ass. We just don't have any details about why you were arrested in the first place and for some reason you refuse to post the details.

    OC at will and don't be afraid. It's legal.

    Happy 50th!
    Thank you and sorry to jump down your throat like that
    -----------------
    --SCOTT

    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

    "A government that is big enough to give you everything you need is beg enough to take everything you have, the course of history shows that as government incresses - liberty decreases."


    LEGAL NOTICE: I am not a lawyer, no content in the above post should considered legal advice

  21. #21
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    as long as police officers have no fear of personal consequences, they will continue to violate laws and constitutional rights. It is only once they realize that their very lives can be in danger by those they choose to violate, will we see any cognizant appreciation for constitutional rights.

  22. #22
    Regular Member razor_baghdad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DKSuddeth View Post
    as long as police officers have no fear of personal consequences, they will continue to violate laws and constitutional rights. It is only once they realize that their very lives can be in danger by those they choose to violate, will we see any cognizant appreciation for constitutional rights.
    +1,000,000.

    Excellent post.

  23. #23
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    As to your fear of OC'ing... It is YOUR choice and yours alone. But I seem to have read this someplace and it seems very appropriate here....

    "A Right Unexercised is a Right Lost"

    I wonder just where I might have heard that... OH, YEAH! RIGHT HERE ON THE FIRST PAGE OF OCDO!!!!!!!!!!

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member ixtow's Avatar
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    Like any enemy of freedom, they won't stop until they face consequences. At some point the ego trip of being a traitor while dressed like a self-proclaimed hero just isn't worth it anymore. You have to make it happen. Unfortunately the America of our Founders doesn't exist anymore, you have to fight for justice if you want any.

    Make it expensive. You should erase all references to your own actions from this thread. LEOs make false claims of resistance all the damn time. "Fix it in the report" as it is taught in the Academy. Once he is discredited in one area, it is likely all charges he brings would be dropped.

    Then you can give him his very expensive consequences.
    Last edited by ixtow; 12-14-2010 at 01:53 AM.

  25. #25
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    Last edited by Smith45acp; 12-18-2010 at 08:23 AM.
    "In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain

    I don't bother with pragmatic statistics while discussing my constitutional rights. The issue is far less complex, to me. Free men should be able to act like free men.

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