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Thread: ARS Title 13-418

  1. #1
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    ARS Title 13-418

    My question is: Does this include a bicycle or skate board? It does say "non motorized". As an avid bike rider I would like to know what this does include.


    13-418. Justification; use of force in defense of residential structure or occupied vehicles; definitions

    A. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, a person is justified in threatening to use or using physical force or deadly physical force against another person if the person reasonably believes himself or another person to be in imminent peril of death or serious physical injury and the person against whom the physical force or deadly physical force is threatened or used was in the process of unlawfully or forcefully entering, or had unlawfully or forcefully entered, a residential structure or occupied vehicle, or had removed or was attempting to remove another person against the other person's will from the residential structure or occupied vehicle.

    B. A person has no duty to retreat before threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force pursuant to this section.

    C. For the purposes of this section:

    1. "Residential structure" has the same meaning prescribed in section 13-1501.

    2. "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport persons or property.

  2. #2
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phoenixOC View Post
    My question is: Does this include a bicycle or skate board? It does say "non motorized". As an avid bike rider I would like to know what this does include.


    13-418. Justification; use of force in defense of residential structure or occupied vehicles; definitions

    A. Notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter, a person is justified in threatening to use or using physical force or deadly physical force against another person if the person reasonably believes himself or another person to be in imminent peril of death or serious physical injury and the person against whom the physical force or deadly physical force is threatened or used was in the process of unlawfully or forcefully entering, or had unlawfully or forcefully entered, a residential structure or occupied vehicle, or had removed or was attempting to remove another person against the other person's will from the residential structure or occupied vehicle.

    B. A person has no duty to retreat before threatening or using physical force or deadly physical force pursuant to this section.

    C. For the purposes of this section:

    1. "Residential structure" has the same meaning prescribed in section 13-1501.

    2. "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport persons or property.
    We (AzCDL) slipped the revised language in this section into this year's bill dealing with unauthorized "registration" via the Public storage process. The intent was to clarify that a person has no duty to retreat in any place they have a right to be.

    Regarding "A" - If it's not worth dying for, it's not worth shooting (or threatening to shoot) for.

    Fred

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    quoteing original poster--
    "My question is: Does this include a bicycle or skate board? It does say "non motorized". As an avid bike rider I would like to know what this does include.
    '

    Per the statute--- 2. "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport persons or property.

    So, YEP, that does include a Bicycle or skate board, in fact as it is written it would include a "pallet mover" device in a warehouse as it is specifically designed as a conveyance to move property! Maybe even a set of "furniture dollies"

    Just for the record.... I like this statute!

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    Excellent stuff Fred! I love the AzCDL.. And Sparky, me too!
    Last edited by phoenixOC; 12-10-2010 at 02:40 AM.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    quoteing original poster--
    "My question is: Does this include a bicycle or skate board? It does say "non motorized". As an avid bike rider I would like to know what this does include.
    Per the statute--- 2. "Vehicle" means a conveyance of any kind, whether or not motorized, that is designed to transport persons or property.
    So, YEP, that does include a Bicycle or skate board, in fact as it is written it would include a "pallet mover" device in a warehouse as it is specifically designed as a conveyance to move property! Maybe even a set of "furniture dollies"
    Just for the record.... I like this statute!
    As an FYI, this statute has NOTHING to do with carrying a pistol. That is covered in the misconduct statues (ARS 13-3102).

    The statute you're quoting deals with when you can threaten or use deadly force. The rule to live by is that if it's not worth dying for, it's not worth shooting (or threatening to shoot) for.

    If I was on something that's moving that I had control over (car, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard, etc.), I'd concentrate on getting the hell out of the situation rather than yelling at someone that I'm going to kill them.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 12-10-2010 at 01:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    As an FYI, this statute has NOTHING to do with carrying a pistol. That is covered in the misconduct statues (ARS 13-3102).

    The statute you're quoting deals with when you can threaten or use deadly force. The rule to live by is that if it's not worth dying for, it's not worth shooting (or threatening to shoot) for.

    If I was on something that's moving that I had control over (car, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard, etc.), I'd concentrate on getting the hell out of the situation rather than yelling at someone that I'm going to kill them.

    Fred
    I am confused..... after RE-READING my post that you previously quoted, I am unable to discern where your reference to pistols came from as I made NO MENTION WHATSOEVER to any firearm.

    But, carry on where ever legal and where it ain't legal CHANGE THE LAW TO MAKE IT SO!

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I am confused..... after RE-READING my post that you previously quoted, I am unable to discern where your reference to pistols came from as I made NO MENTION WHATSOEVER to any firearm.
    My mistake. I thought your reference to the "threatening" stautes was more of a question about where you can carry a "weapon." Sorry to confuse you with my answer.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    But, carry on where ever legal and where it ain't legal CHANGE THE LAW TO MAKE IT SO!
    If you want to make a difference, the answer is here: http://www.azcdl.org/html/join_us_.html.

    Fred

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    And

    Don't miss that important AND. Deadly force is not justified if I'm stealing your bike or skateboard.

    a person is justified in threatening to use or using physical force or deadly physical force against another person if the person reasonably believes himself or another person to be in imminent peril of death or serious physical injury and
    In opinion, I'm really not sure why we need anything after the word injury. That line should cover every circumstance and justifiable use of force no matter where I am.

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    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Looks like that pesky "AND" may be going away.

    If I read this right, and it's late so I might not be, looks like you'll soon be able to shoot someone for stealing your bike or trying to take your car stereo.

    This one may go a little too far.

    http://www.azleg.gov/DocumentsForBil...Session_ID=102

  10. #10
    Regular Member sharkey's Avatar
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    Whew! I missed the word occupied when referencing vehicle. Now I don't have to worry about every stereo thief being shot their corpse paraded around town, though it would be effective to lower the crime rate.

    I'm still worried about the poor squatters or even worse, the person who truly believes they rented a house they have no right to who gets legally shot by the true property owner. We do have a lot of vacant properties and snowbirds. Did I miss anything in regards to that scenario?

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