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Thread: Fed Gov't found VA Tech violated Federal Law in 07 Shootings

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    Fed Gov't found VA Tech violated Federal Law in 07 Shootings

    VA Tech is getting blamed again for violating the Clery Act in the 2007 shooting.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/09...mass-shooting/

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    Emails and text messages don't stop mass shootings. I wonder how many years of finger-pointing it will take before they realize "hey, a legally armed student or faculty member could have stopped this."
    Last edited by Curtis; 12-11-2010 at 03:29 PM.

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    The biggest think I get out of that atrticle is just the reaffirmination that the Department of Education should be done away with completely. That is more of a hinderance to the education of the nation than any other single entity in existance. All the cries about zero tolerance and similar can be traced directly to the DOE.

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    Regular Member ocholsteroc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    VA Tech is getting blamed again for violating the Clery Act in the 2007 shooting.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/12/09...mass-shooting/
    They also broke (and rest of all the schools in the country) the right to bear arms..... When will they ever learn.
    Last edited by ocholsteroc; 12-11-2010 at 05:04 PM.
    How come a DUI you can get your driver licence back, which it is a privilege. But if commiting a felon, even something non violent like stealing, you are denied your constitutional rights for the rest of your life?
    If you don't support the Second Amendment to the Constitution, what other parts of the Constitution do you reject?
    More restrictions on guns? how about restrictions on chainsaws and knives?

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    When you put your life in someone else's hands, you take a risk. The VT tragedy is another lesson that gun control is a dismal failure. A school policy didn't deliver those people from harm. VT PD was ill prepared for such a situation.

    Be armed. Know your surroundings - where the cover is and where the exits are located. Train often. You don't rise to the occasion, you revert back to your highest level of training.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ocholsteroc View Post
    They also broke (and rest of all the schools in the country) the right to bear arms..... When will they ever learn.
    I hear Utah got it right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    I wonder how many years of finger-pointing it will take before they realize "hey, a legally armed student or faculty member could have stopped this."
    As long as it takes to do some major house cleaning, actually.
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Emails and text messages don't stop mass shootings. I wonder how many years of finger-pointing it will take before they realize "hey, a legally armed student or faculty member could have stopped this."
    Quote Originally Posted by AbNo View Post
    As long as it takes to do some major house cleaning, actually.
    Or the loss of a couple of major law suits.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Or the loss of a couple of major law suits.
    ... which may lead to those same house cleanings. :wink:

    Edit: Wait, what happened to our "wink" emote?
    Why open carry? Because 1911 > 911.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbNo View Post
    ... which may lead to those same house cleanings. :wink:

    Edit: Wait, what happened to our "wink" emote?

    Multiple choice:
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    These recent posts raised the question in my mind: Did any of the Virginai Tech victims hold a Concealed Handgun Permit? While we all know the media is quick to jump on reporting any criminal who might have had one, I'm just as sure that even if they had been aware of any of the victims who held one, they would never have reported it.

    I read through a couple of the old news reports on the victims, and while I did not find a report that any held a permit, here is what I did find:

    The 32 victims fall into these categories:

    Students, under 21 years old: 12

    Students, 21 years or older: 14

    Faculty or Staff, 21 years or older: 5


    The remaining victim was a student whose age was not reported.

    This means it is quite likely that almost 20 of the 32 victims would have been eligible to carry a concealed handgun, had they chosen to go through the process, and had the university allowed them to do so.

    It's a sad state indeed, when you must choose the continuation of your academic career over the protection of your life.

    TFred

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Virginia Tech fined $55K for response to shooting

    Virginia Tech fined $55K for response to shooting

    RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Virginia Tech will have to pay the maximum $55,000 fine for violating federal law by waiting too long to notify students during the 2007 shooting rampage, the U.S. Department of Education announced Tuesday.

    TFred

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Virginia Tech fined $55K for response to shooting

    RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Virginia Tech will have to pay the maximum $55,000 fine for violating federal law by waiting too long to notify students during the 2007 shooting rampage, the U.S. Department of Education announced Tuesday.
    TFred
    So now the will raise the student fees a little bit more to cover this "inconvenience."

    No personal liability for creating this monumental failure.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member 2a4all's Avatar
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    And for the 32?

    That's amazing! A $55,000 fine for providing a killing field for 32 students!

    That's $55,000/32 = $1,718.75 for each student.

    That's disgusting!
    A law-abiding citizen should be able to carry his personal protection firearm anywhere that an armed criminal might go.

    Member VCDL, NRA

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    Of course, the real question is whether the classes would have been cancelled if the alert had been issued on time. Meaning would the other 51 dead and wounded have been absent from the killing zone?

    Of course, not.

    Thus, this fine over a late warning is worse than pointless. It distracts.

    A couple dead students were discovered, and nobody imagined a larger killing was coming shortly. Just an isolated crime, I'm sure was the attitude towards the first murders. "Killer is long gone. Nobody hangs around a murder." Unless the killer is planning to stroll across campus and use up the rest of his ammunition.
    Last edited by Citizen; 03-30-2011 at 01:27 AM.

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    Regular Member Shovelhead's Avatar
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    IIRC, The fine for late notification also hinged on the fact that some school administrators notified their friends and relatives before they notified the students on campus.


    Since most "Mass Shootings" have taken place in "Gun Free Zones", maybe they should be trying to outlaw GFZs.
    Assault Weapon (N) “Any firearm whose design disturbs the sleep of progressive politicians.”.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shovelhead View Post
    IIRC, The fine for late notification also hinged on the fact that some school administrators notified their friends and relatives before they notified the students on campus.


    Since most "Mass Shootings" have taken place in "Gun Free Zones", maybe they should be trying to outlaw GFZs.
    Ah yes, they notified their "special" loved ones.

    The students and staff must have been less "special."

    Don't look for logic in GFZs - there is none.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  18. #18
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    I don't remember where I saw it, but I seem to recall a report that they canceled trash pickup before they notified the student body at large. How disgusting is that?

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Another question to ask is, if an alert had been sent out and they "locked down" the campus after the first two murders, would Cho have gone on his killing spree in Harper Hall (dorm) instead if he was "locked" in his dorm?
    Hee, hee. Good question. Keep them squirming.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curtis View Post
    Emails and text messages don't stop mass shootings. I wonder how many years of finger-pointing it will take before they realize "hey, a legally armed student or faculty member could have stopped this."
    New slogan:

    When seconds count, text-messages are only a few hours away.

    We will file an appeal. The University's notice was issued to its campus community within a matter of hours. Reasonable people can disagree about what is a timely notice because the DOE doesn't define 'timely notice.'

    I issued the notice. We find it really incredulous that we are being fined because the university communications office sent out a communications notice to our university community while its police, who were over investigating a very serious crime, did not have the time to issue that notice.
    -- Larry Hincker, Va. Tech mouthpiece

    Hincker doesn't understand what timely means:
    As we noted before, neither the Department of Education nor the Clery Act defines 'timely.' The university actions on April 16 were well within the standards and practices in effect at that time.
    Remember Larry is proud VT banned campus carry. Such a tool.

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    Box of Federal HST: $25

    Unlimited text messaging plan: $30

    Pulling the trigger instead of sending a text SOS: Priceless

    There are some things a college can't provide. For everything else, there is the Second Amendment.

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    I also recall hearing something at the time about some blocked/chained emergency exits...Am I remembering correctly or confusing some other incident?? MAJOR fire code violation if true though.
    Lower the crime rate by lowering the criminal survival rate!
    When people say 'God Bless America' I'm sure He says, "I gave you Texas!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark-in-texas View Post
    I also recall hearing something at the time about some blocked/chained emergency exits...Am I remembering correctly or confusing some other incident?? MAJOR fire code violation if true though.
    We know that Cho chained at least one door.

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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    Box of Federal HST: $25

    Unlimited text messaging plan: $30

    Pulling the trigger instead of sending a text SOS: Priceless

    There are some things a college can't provide. For everything else, there is the Second Amendment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nova View Post
    Well I'm sure that Cho contemplated the legal consequences of that!
    If he had just waited a few years, he could have posed as a Mexican drug cartel gun buyer and ATF would have given him automatic weapons.

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