URGENT! Concealed and Open Carry Reform - Senate Bill 234 Filed Today

ixtow said:

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Let's bring some context into the discussion, shall we?

Section 3. Subsection (1) of section 790.065, Florida
99 Statutes, is amended to read:
100 790.065 Sale and delivery of firearms.—
101 (1)(a) A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or
102 licensed dealer may not sell or deliver from her or his
103 inventory at her or his licensed premises any firearm to another
104 person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
105 licensed dealer, or licensed collector, until she or he has:
106 1.(a) Obtained a completed form from the potential buyer or
107 transferee, which form shall have been promulgated by the
108 Department of Law Enforcement and provided by the licensed
109 importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, which shall
110 include the name, date of birth, gender, race, and social
111 security number or other identification number of such potential
112 buyer or transferee and has inspected proper identification
113 including an identification containing a photograph of the
114 potential buyer or transferee.
115 2.(b) Collected a fee from the potential buyer for
116 processing the criminal history check of the potential buyer.
117 The fee shall be established by the Department of Law
118 Enforcement and may not exceed $8 per transaction. The
119 Department of Law Enforcement may reduce, or suspend collection
120 of, the fee to reflect payment received from the Federal
121 Government applied to the cost of maintaining the criminal
122 history check system established by this section as a means of
123 facilitating or supplementing the National Instant Criminal
124 Background Check System. The Department of Law Enforcement
125 shall, by rule, establish procedures for the fees to be
126 transmitted by the licensee to the Department of Law
127 Enforcement. All such fees shall be deposited into the
128 Department of Law Enforcement Operating Trust Fund, but shall be
129 segregated from all other funds deposited into such trust fund
130 and must be accounted for separately. Such segregated funds must
131 not be used for any purpose other than the operation of the
132 criminal history checks required by this section. The Department
133 of Law Enforcement, each year prior to February 1, shall make a
134 full accounting of all receipts and expenditures of such funds
135 to the President of the Senate, the Speaker of the House of
136 Representatives, the majority and minority leaders of each house
137 of the Legislature, and the chairs of the appropriations
138 committees of each house of the Legislature. In the event that
139 the cumulative amount of funds collected exceeds the cumulative
140 amount of expenditures by more than $2.5 million, excess funds
141 may be used for the purpose of purchasing soft body armor for
142 law enforcement officers.
143 3.(c) Requested, by means of a toll-free telephone call,
144 the Department of Law Enforcement to conduct a check of the
145 information as reported and reflected in the Florida Crime
146 Information Center and National Crime Information Center systems
147 as of the date of the request.
148 4.(d) Received a unique approval number for that inquiry
149 from the Department of Law Enforcement, and recorded the date
150 and such number on the consent form.
151 (b) However, if the person purchasing, or receiving
152 delivery of, the firearm is a holder of a valid concealed
153 weapons or firearms license pursuant to the provisions of s.
154 790.06 or holds an active certification from the Criminal
155 Justice Standards and Training Commission as a “law enforcement
156 officer,” a “correctional officer,” or a “correctional probation
157 officer” as defined in s. 943.10(1), (2), (3), (6), (7), (8), or
158 (9), the provisions of this subsection does do not apply.
159 (c) This section does not apply to the purchase, trade, or
160 transfer of firearms by a resident of this state when the
161 resident makes such purchase, trade, or transfer in another
162 state, in which case the laws and regulations of that state and
163 the United States governing the purchase, trade, or transfer of
164 firearms shall apply. A National Instant Criminal Background
165 Check System check shall be performed prior to such purchase,
166 trade, or transfer of firearms by a resident of this state.
167 Section 4. This act shall take effect July 1, 2011.

790.065 regulates DEALER sale of firearms. NICS is not available to anyone but authorized individuals, such as law enforcement agencies and firearms dealers. Private individuals do not have access to NICS. what is is also saying is that when a resident of Florida goes to another state to buy a firearm in that state, that resident only has to comply with the laws of that state, not Florida's law, but they must be NICS checked. That's all. There is no elimination of private sales here.

Peter t said:

Hmm... ixtow I am glad you pointed out the fact that you have to produce ID and permit upon request by an officer when you are carrying concealed. I was planning on declining politely before I learned that. Could of gotten me in some trouble had I not known that.

From what I understand, the statute states that you must carry the permit and produce ID and show the permit upon demand ONLY when you carry concealed. You do not have to carry or produce any ID or permit upon demand by LEO if you are not carrying a concealed weapon on you.

The question now is: Are you still bound by law to produce the permit when you are open carrying? It can be argued that you do not have to show LEOs the permit or identification at all since the weapon is in plain view and there is no weapon concealment. Unless you are open carrying while fishing, hunting, or conducting shooting activites, it would be understood that you are a holder of a CWP. Even with the understanding, I believe that you would be in the right and the LEO would be in the wrong if they detain and demand ID just for the action of open carrying since the new bill states nothing about producing a CWP while open carrying.

In the end, I think it is a step in the right direction of getting rights back. A small step is better than no step I believe. I can only hope that it will not end at that step and we keep on moving until we have the ability to open carry with no licenses or classes in all the states.

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The practical reality is that, as has been the case elsewhere, people will be charged under the concealed part even when it isn't concealed.

SS 790 is just huge. Context of these convoluted and wordy subsections is what gives LEOs their qualified immunity.

Gray Peterson said:

Let's bring some context into the discussion, shall we?

790.065 regulates DEALER sale of firearms. NICS is not available to anyone but authorized individuals, such as law enforcement agencies and firearms dealers. Private individuals do not have access to NICS. what is is also saying is that when a resident of Florida goes to another state to buy a firearm in that state, that resident only has to comply with the laws of that state, not Florida's law, but they must be NICS checked. That's all. There is no elimination of private sales here.

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The point I'm making is that this is worded independently. The 'context' intended need not actually apply. You can SAY it is meant for Dealers, but it is written so that it can be taken out of that context and applied willy-nilly.

If all sales require NICS, and only dealers can use NICS, poof.

This is FL; give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile. And get away with it.

Maybe you rich guys can afford to fight this in court when it happens, but not everyone can.

Licensed Open Carry

I used to be against the bill, but have changed my mind and think it's a step in the right direction. This is really a pivot point to Constitutional Carry. There is the danger that this will solidify the sheeples' notion that carry is a privilege. They're going to see hostile thugs in black uniforms-sorry, "heroes", demanding people Ocing produce their papers. Then again, gun control is falling out of favor nationwide-and once OC is old news here, then we can go for the whole enchilada: either gold star status then constitutional carry or just right to constitutional carry. Even though the country is going to hell in a handbasket-it seems more and more people are waking up to the importance of the RKABA, so I think it more likely licensed OC will grease the skids to unlicensed open and concealed carry. There is a reason the antigun groups are terrified of OC-it "norms" society to the notion that guns are just tools that people have a right to have.

@ixtow

I had to go to New Jersey recently, and I researched their gun laws. Let me tell you, Florida is not NJ with palm trees. NJ is a gun owner's hell. It's hard to believe that a state in this union can be so tyrannical. Just know that NJ and North Korea have similar gun laws.

ixtow said:

The point I'm making is that this is worded independently. The 'context' intended need not actually apply. You can SAY it is meant for Dealers, but it is written so that it can be taken out of that context and applied willy-nilly.

If all sales require NICS, and only dealers can use NICS, poof.

This is FL; give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile. And get away with it.

Maybe you rich guys can afford to fight this in court when it happens, but not everyone can.

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....and I think you're intentionally misrepresenting things in order to perpetuate your personal sense of victim-hood, especially in your bizarro worldview that Florida is New Jersey with Palm trees. Just sayin.....

I don't agree that OC should require a permission slip, but I am holding out hope that we can go Constitutional Carry as a next step.

To all of you who plan to call your legislator to encourage passage of the bill, please be sure to mention that they need to adopt an amendment that drops Florida's arbitrary and unconstitutional U.S. resident requirement for permit applicants. If you are a U.S. Citizen then Florida shouldn't deny permits to (or recognize reciprocity for) expatriate American citizens who are residing overseas. If you are studying abroad or on a work assignment and slip back into Florida on a break or holiday to visit family, you could get jacked up for a felony if you mistakenly think that your otherwise valid concealed carry permit (from any state, not just Florida) is still honored. It is not . . . once you start residing outside the U.S. I even have my permanent domicile in Florida and was still denied the ability to renew my Florida concealed weapons permit over Florida's unconstitutional U.S. resident requirement for American Citizens.

Nearly all of you won't be effected by this, but those of you who are college students who study in Canada or Mexico could find out one day that you are charged with a felony if you get caught carrying on your otherwise valid 'permit' in Florida when you come back for a visit.

I'm trying to fight this. The fix is simple. Ask your legislator to amend the current carry bill to drop the United States residency requirement for American Citizens.

Florida Statute 790.06(2)(a) states that an applicant must be both "a resident of the United States and a Citizen of the United States". Just ask that the residency test be dropped for law-abiding U.S. Citizens.

I'm pointing out what experience has taught me.

OC4me said:

I don't agree that OC should require a permission slip, but I am holding out hope that we can go Constitutional Carry as a next step.

To all of you who plan to call your legislator to encourage passage of the bill, please be sure to mention that they need to adopt an amendment that drops Florida's arbitrary and unconstitutional U.S. resident requirement for permit applicants. If you are a U.S. Citizen then Florida shouldn't deny permits to (or recognize reciprocity for) expatriate American citizens who are residing overseas. If you are studying abroad or on a work assignment and slip back into Florida on a break or holiday to visit family, you could get jacked up for a felony if you mistakenly think that your otherwise valid concealed carry permit (from any state, not just Florida) is still honored. It is not . . . once you start residing outside the U.S. I even have my permanent domicile in Florida and was still denied the ability to renew my Florida concealed weapons permit over Florida's unconstitutional U.S. resident requirement for American Citizens.

Nearly all of you won't be effected by this, but those of you who are college students who study in Canada or Mexico could find out one day that you are charged with a felony if you get caught carrying on your otherwise valid 'permit' in Florida when you come back for a visit.

I'm trying to fight this. The fix is simple. Ask your legislator to amend the current carry bill to drop the United States residency requirement for American Citizens.

Florida Statute 790.06(2)(a) states that an applicant must be both "a resident of the United States and a Citizen of the United States". Just ask that the residency test be dropped for law-abiding U.S. Citizens.

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I agree 100% but who do we contact?

lowlux said:

I agree 100% but who do we contact?

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We at Florida Carry, Inc. have this on our list of issues to discuss with the legislature.

http://www.floridacarry.org/