Wierd bank/sheriff issue

So I swing by my bank (NCSECU) Friday afternoon, to convert coin into paper (this was yesterday afternoon, I was too busy to post until this morning).

After I put all my change in the change machine, I stand in line to talk to a teller. The whole time, I end up being eye-raped by the guy in front of me, and I could tell it's because he's staring at my gun (he had the slightly wide-eyed sheeple response). Anyways, I get up to the teller, do my business (he asks if I was a student at ECU, if I was a ECU Student Safety [which I'm not], whats my major, etc etc). I conclude my business, walk out the door, and head to Sam's club.

After I park, and while I was making my way to the entrance, I get a call from the sheriff's office (yes the sheriff). I answer, and Detective Lengwood(?) (direct phone number: 252-378-5009 - he is a public official, ergo his number can be posted) confirms who I am, goes on to say that I have a CHP (I believe I interrupted him at this point and state that I know my duplicate is ready to be picked up - they hashed my address the first go around). He says 'OK, were you at the bank about 20 minutes ago?' To which I respond yes, I was. He asks if I was armed, to which I say yes, or course. He then starts to spout of that carrying in a bank is illegal (by federal law), and that there's a law called (can you guess it?) gatttotp.

I start to inform him that I am allowed to carry in a bank as long as its not concealed (I even told him I have a picture of the sticker they have at the entrance on my phone - I posted it here somewhere in another bank thread), and then I informed him of the conditions of being charged with gatttotp, both of which he didn't seem too inclined to listen to. He then spouts off that he called the DA and the DA told him that it is illegal, by federal law, to carry a gun into the bank. After he started spewing this nonsense, I tried to arrange a time to meet him face to face, during which my phone disconnects (doesn't do that unless I have 1 bar of service, I had 3). Before I got D/C'ed, he did state that he was going to be in the office come Monday, so I may be swinging by to get some information out of him.

No I did not have the recorder going, because 1) I was not expecting a phone call about this, and 2) I don't thing the 'memo recorder' app would work over the phone, because it uses the built in mic to record everything, and 3) I don't have a habit of recording phone calls anyway.


So, I see a few issues here.
-The bank gave out my name (possibly contact info, but doubtful because I have enough info at the Sheriff's office that this wasn't needed), without a warrant, and without a reason (apart from a possible MWAG call) - I have not dealt with this issue yet, nor will I be able to until Monday
-A detective from the Pitt County Sheriff's office called me *directly* on my personal number
-a detective from the Pitt County Sheriff's office started spewing pure utter BS, and doesn't know the law
-Whichever DA he supposedly called needs to go back to law school, and actually learn the law

I called Dreamer right after this (adrenaline got pumping hardcore, and I needed someone to rant to about this immediately - I'm getting worked up over this just typing it...). We both discuss how many ways this detective is wrong, how he has no basis to back up anything that he said, and possibly a few issues I have to take up with the bank. We also discussed the possibility of SECU being state or federal property (which it's not - did a bit of research, and it is a 'Not for profit bank' that is run by a board of directors, i.e. a corporate entity).

We also discussed how there seems to be a disturbingly growing trend of more and more reports of OCDO NC members getting harassed by LEOs for going about their daily business. The media also seems to be picking up a lot more gun stories in general as well, from what I've noticed.

We also discussed the possibility of me having to lawyer up. I really hope that this incident doesn't come to this, because I'm a broke college student. However, if it does, I will probably be seeking out a civil suit lawyer, and go from there.

Dreamer did mention that I should be thankful that a couple cruisers didn't pull up, cuff me, run my gun number, etc etc, which I am. The last thing I want is an embarrassing (for me at the time) situation like that to happen in parking lot of the bank. But he also said it would be hella lot easier to drill them into the ground in the court room.

I'll keep everyone informed of whats going on. Something like this is NOT going to be taken lightly from me. The only downside, is it'll have to wait for all my effort to kick in until finals are over for me (Tuesday). I'll make sure I get as clear of a recording as possible, to which I might have to walk down to a lawyer with before I post it.

These incidents are getting a little more common, as you said, and I don't like it.

I carry in SECU as well, haven't had issues as of yet. I don't usually go in, but I have OCd inside a couple of times without issue.

I'm glad you're pursuing this. Hopefully it will just come down to a little department reeducation, and no legal problems will come of it.

Good luck, keep us updated, let us know if you need help, etc.

Issue resolved.

I just got off the phone with the same detective (robbery division), and he told me what happened.

The guy that was eye raping me (more than likely, as he was openly staring at me) ended up catching my last name, and called in that I had a gun. The sheriff, doing their duties, punched in my last name, and found that I have a file with them (because I have a CHP). The detective called me, and after I confirmed who I was, he started off on his spiel.

Since I spouted off so much legal jargon concerning GATTTOTP and carrying in a bank, him and his partner both said "He knows his sh!t, we should double check this." and yes, he did just say that to me over the phone. They both did some more research, learned that I was in the right on both carrying in a bank (they even called a ATF agent stationed in Wilmington about that), and about the GATTTOTP. We talked a bit how it is completely legal to openly carry in a bank, as long as the bank isn't posted otherwise. He did say that NCSECU doesn't have any issue with me carrying a gun on premises.

I'm still planning on meeting with him, however, since we are getting a new sheriff this week, he did state that everything was a bit hectic, so I might wait a couple days (at least until finals are over with).

Issue resolved, and I educated 2 sheriff detectives. Overall, an outstanding result, as he blatantly said that he (and his partner) know the GATTTOTP statute, and about carrying in a bank. Since the bank didn't give out my personal information, I won't have to do anything with them either (thank god, because I love that bank).

Excellent response! They decided to get educated without their hand being forced.

I wish they had already known the law before trying to enforce a nonexistent one, but all things considered this was a good response.

I, too, am glad about NCSECU. I was considering switching banks pending the outcome of this, but I'm glad to know they had nothing to do with it.

Now for the rant part of my post - to the guy behind you at the bank: Mind your own damn business!

great job!!!!
I think if a leo told me my actions were "illegal" I would respond with "well arrest me then" I don't break the law so I have no fear of arrest... If my weapon is take for evidence I can buy a new gun as soon as I leave the dept.. I have a CHP.... Cops just being bullies trying to turn you into a sheep...

Sounds like a good ending. As far as the original call. Yeah, the guy should mind his own business. But it looks like the cops were just responding to the call. Unfortunately, they tried to pressure you with improper interpretations of the law. Good job getting that part straightened out.

Im SO glad this turned out for the best.

Wow I thought u could not carry a gun into a bank at all. I thought it was federal crime so some one show me the law that says u can

hydroxside said:

Wow I thought u could not carry a gun into a bank at all. I thought it was federal crime so some one show me the law that says u can

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Show me the law that say's I can't

hydroxside said:

Wow I thought u could not carry a gun into a bank at all. I thought it was federal crime so some one show me the law that says u can

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First, it depends on your state gun laws. If your state has no law against it, it is then up to the bank. Banks are private property therefore it is up to the individual bank whether they allow carry or not. Here in Washington state it is legal unless it is against the bank's policy. Some banks allow it, some don't. Please keep in mind, with the exception of federal laws, if there is no law against something in your state, it is probably legal; that is why it is very important to know your state's gun laws.

elixin77 said:

Show me the law that say's I can't

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+1

hydroxside said:

Wow I thought u could not carry a gun into a bank at all. I thought it was federal crime so some one show me the law that says u can

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Some UNEDUCATED SHEEP THINK that because a bank/financial institution is insured by FDIC that the institutions are federal agencies or property.

Think about it this way---- I assume you have insurance on your car or house. In my case, I am insured by State Farm. Now, does State Farm OWN my house or car JUST BECAUSE THEY INSURE THEM?

elixin77 said:

SNIP He says 'OK, were you at the bank about 20 minutes ago?' To which I respond yes, I was. He asks if I was armed, to which I say yes, or course. He then starts to spout of that carrying in a bank is illegal (by federal law), and that there's a law called (can you guess it?) gatttotp.

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This is why one never answers questions from police. "No offense, officer. I know you are just doing your job, but I would never answer questions without an attorney."

In this particular case, everything turned out more than fine--a few educated police. But, it could just as easily gone the other way.

Also, if the cops really wanted to know, they could have called the bank and asked a teller if Mr. "X" had just been there. If it had been an important aspect of a criminal investigation, they could have gotten a warrant for the deposit records to confirm Mr. "X"s presence at the bank.

Damn, that would have caught me so off guard. A call on my cell phone from the sheriff's dept... I wonder how the sheep got your last name? When I deposit money, I never have to mention my last name and the teller never mentions it either. Good thing it turned out the way it did. If you had lied and said it wasn't you, you would have never been able to educate the cops. I'm also happy that SECU didn't give out any of your info. If they had, I would have closed out my account there immediately.

I have an account with Bank of America and have been happy with them. They don't have anti-gun signs on the door either. SECU is still my favorite, but I prefer the online access with BoA.

In the event that I am eye-raped for OCing, I always say something to them. Just a "hi, how are you" or even "Sorry if my handgun makes you uncomfortable." I generally will only say it to people I will be around for longer than 10 seconds (cashier or even another customer in line).

I must say, the one place I still don't feel comfortable OCing is at the bank. But I'll get there eventually! I think we should be able to OC/CC in a bank without problems. If I give them the responsibility of storing my money, I should be able to protect it myself.

Right after I got off the phone with "exilin77" with his initial report, I placed a call to the NC AG's office to get some guidance...

Once again, the AG's office very deftly gave me a very polite non-answer. First they told me that they didn't know, and therefore couldn't comment on Federal Law. Then they went into the whole GAttTotP thing. They DID aknowledge that OC in a bank that was not posted was legal, but tried to press the GAttTotP thing...

I asked the AG rep if she had actually READ the common law ruling that defines GAttTotP. She said she didnt have it at hand, but that th police could charge you with it if someone called about a MWAG.

So I asked her if I could read it to her, and she said OK. I read it the FOUR conditions yu have to meet, and the fact that it is an INTENT-based violation), and asked her how a person who was lawfully carrying a firearm, with the intent of proficing self-defense and protection for them self, in a place that idn't have any issues with carry on their property would meet those conditions.

She said, that it was up to the police to interpret that, to which I responded, it was my understanding that it was the police's job to ENFORCE the law, and it was the courts and judges who were tasked with interpreting the law. I went on to stat that as the AG, it was her office's job to provide guidance to the law enforcement community in our state. I suggested that perhaps the AG's office issue a memo to clear this up, and educate the LE community of our state that GAttTotP is not a charge that can be used for bulying lawfully OCers into following the personal bias of a LEO, but rather it is a VERY specific charge with VERY specific conditions.

Her response to this was perhaps I should have my attorney or my State REpresentative contact the AG's office and make this request. She then asked me if I had any other questions.

I told her no, but there were thousands of other law-abiding firearms owners who held similar concerns, and we would REALLY appreciate some sort of guidance for our own personal edification, and that we would ESPECIALLY appreciate it if the AG's office would educate the LE community as to the true nature of GAttTotP, because we really don't appreciate being bullied under color of law...

Kudo's to "exilin77" for keeping his cool. And congrats to him for speaking eloquently enough to the responding officer that they actually double-checked their accusations, and LEARNED a little something in the process. Hopefully their educational experience will trickle through the entire Pitt County Sheriff's department.

Had it been me, I would have driven DIRECTLY to the Sheriff's office WHILE I had them on the phone, and appeared in their lobby for a little FTF, with my laptop full of NC and Federal Codes, Statutes and laws...

But don't you know? Haven't you heard?

Government said:

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, but we're not going to tell you what the law means.

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I can't believe they actually called. Oh, Dreamer, can you give me a link to the conditions of GAttTotP. I'm thinking I might start carrying around a printoff in my wallet just in case something happens. It'd be nice to have the law on hand since cops seem to play this one as a wildcard when they can't charge you for anything else.

I love how its like pulling teeth to get public officials to fulfill the duties of their office, and you the lowly citizen are not entitled to know what the actual laws are that they want us to abide by.

I have learned something today. I go to NC one week a year on vacation. I thought I had read that NC has a state law against carrying in banks. I guess not!

They do have a law against carrying in banks - you can't carry concealed.

Open carry, however, is fair game.