Man with a gun call ends tragically?

http://www.sacbee.com/2010/12/13/3254393/long-beach-police-say-officer.html


LONG BEACH, Calif. -- Police responding to a man-with-a-gun call in an upscale Long Beach neighborhood shot and killed a 35-year-old man sitting on his porch.

Investigators say Douglas Zerby, whose name was released Monday, was shot to death at about 4:40 p.m. Sunday.

A Police Department news release says officers observed a man believed to be armed with a handgun and took cover. While waiting for backup officers, the department says an officer involved shooting occurred and Zerby was killed.

It's not known if a weapon was found.

The man's father Mark Zerby was enraged, confronting investigators and shouting, "You shot a kid. He's unarmed."

Neighbor Gilbert Salas told Fox Television that officers drove up and immediately began shooting. Witnesses say several shots were fired.

Police have refused comment since the sketchy Sunday night news release



Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/12/13/3254393/long-beach-police-say-officer.html#ixzz181aXDvfY

not sure what to say or make of this, would like to get more details.

Headline:Long Beach police say officer shoots, killes man
Proofreaders day off. :idea:

Need a followup story on this one.

Gundude said:

Headline:Long Beach police say officer shoots, killes man
Proofreaders day off. :idea:

Need a followup story on this one.

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Yeah, those are automated titles. There's always mistakes on them. The one saving grace is that at least they are not in S-Pan-Yol

AyatollahGondola said:

It's not known if a weapon was found.

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Fortunately for the police it doesnt matter if the man was armed or not. Shoot first and then cry "officer safety".

I'd like more details as well.

I think the family is going to get a big check and the officers a "slap on the wrist".

Somehow "Oops" won't cover it. But the city will...

So far, it looks like the dead was holding a hose nozzle when he was abruptly terminated

AyatollahGondola said:

Yeah, those are automated titles. There's always mistakes on them. The one saving grace is that at least they are not in S-Pan-Yol

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I would think that if they were automated, their ez know ekscuse fore messpelings.

CenTex said:

I would think that if they were automated, their ez know ekscuse fore messpelings.

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Not to get off on a tangent here, but when one computer copies code from another, the encoding has to be the same or reasonably close or the paste will not end up exact. If you've ever tried to copy and paste some PDF excerpts you'll have seen how this plays out. I see a few hundred of these each week, and some of them are real headscratchers without reading the accompanying stories
"Golfer loses balls during errant swing at celebrity event"

This is very sad!

It all comes down to training. Or lack of. I feel LEO in general are programed to think of officer safety as the most important thing. This and the fact that we citizens DONT protect ourselves any more. Has created a very dangerous atmosphere. One where innocent people will continue to be gunned down like dogs.

On fri my wife and I had lunch in Long Beach. I was still working so was not UOCing. Three LBPD came in to eat. I asked the three cops if they had received any training on UOC recently. One said yes maybe twice this year. Another said he would NOT recommend UOCing because when cops see a gun they ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH IT and if you make the slightest movement YOUR GOING TO GET SHOT! My wife and I could not believe our ears. Then on Sunday the LBPD guns down an UNARMED man on HIS OWN porch. Very sad. They heard gun and they WERE GOING TO DEAL WITH IT! He moved and THEY SHOT HIM. The cop on fri was telling the truth. Repeating what other officers say and feel.

When will more people wake up. The only way this will change is if we demand massive layoffs of this police state. AND are willing to protect ourselves. The last part is the most important. ITS OUR FAULT! We make others do what we are not willing to do.

Sorry to rant just very upset. In the end the cops will say the cops were in the right. We will never hear the true story one man dead no one will ever think about him agin.

R.I.P

More on this news:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_water_nozzle_shooting

Water nozzle

It appears he was holding a WATER NOZZLE.

For another version of the story, check here.

Conclusion?

I'm sorry, but bring to bear everything I learned through the gifted program, high school AP classes, college, and post-graduate studies, my conclusion is that:

CA GOOFS YET AGAIN.

Seriously, folks, their agenda no longer has anything to do with 2A rights of self-protection, but rather, CA law rights towards being re-elected, so as to perpetuate their income as well as a retirement income should they hang on long enough to grab onto it.

The underlying, yet overriding issue is that the system of government is at odds with the will of the people.

God. Where are the Mamas and the Poppas when you need them?

OMG! OH YEAH (follow the links)

Aarrgghh!!!!!

OCDO, CA LEO, and whoever else is listening, please listen up:

1. CA LEOs are doing the best they can given the rather diverse, and often adverse environments in which they're operating.

2. CA policies towards disarming everyone FAIL as they FAIL to realize 95% of all citizens are law-abiding, while just 5% are law-breaking.

Ok, so let's follow CA logic and strip the 95% of law-abiding citizens of defending themselves in favor of the 5% of those criminals who would take advantage of the rest of us...

Yeah. Case closed. Anyone with any funds in excess of $1 million, please pound sand at the base of Yosemite's Half Dome.

I've been there. A very peaceful place.

As for CA, may they rediscover the rights of Americans. I'd prefer they not have to do so through mankind's expulsory orifices. But...

Guh...

Has anyone noticed in the video????
The cops claim 6 rounds from a handgun and 2 rounds from a shotgun..
Why then can you clearly see 9 bullet strikes in the wood rails on the porch???

MAGIC BULLETS?

Sorry, won't let me post pic of bullet strikes.

I wish I could say I'm shocked this happened...

WARCHILD said:

Has anyone noticed in the video????
The cops claim 6 rounds from a handgun and 2 rounds from a shotgun..
Why then can you clearly see 9 bullet strikes in the wood rails on the porch???

MAGIC BULLETS?

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Buck shot??? several large pellets. I have not seen the photo.

OK, so he POINTED this knozzle at the cops. While that may seem less than threatening due to the nature of the object itself, it at least sets this away from mere assassination. The mindset of police training is, that if you point ANYTHING at the cops OR the general public, they may shoot. The object doesn't matter; It's the action. Point a knife, and you'll get shot; point a pipe and you'll get shot.
Several years ago, just some feet away from where I was taken to the asphalt during my slung rifle hike, a mentally different man about 60 years old, well dressed and clean, was standing on the corner at the offramp pointing his cane at cars. I was just caught up in the center of this while I was waiting for the light, and because the cops arrived with lights and sirens. The one cop behind me pulled over and drew a shotgun through his open door, and was drawing bead on the crazy guys every move. It was clearly a cane, but I could tell that the cop was ready to fire regardless. Fortunately for the crazy man, that didn't happen, but open carry or no, don't point anything...anything!

I'm holding off judgment on this.

After reading the thread, my inclination was to think the cops acted precipitously. After reading the news accounts which offer more detail, specifically that neighbors said he was handling a small revolver, that he was drunk, and that he pointed the presumed weapon at one of the officers, I was less convinced that the police reacted badly. Reading more lead to conflicting reports that the police pulled up and started firing and that the took positions of cover and observed the man, waiting for backup.

The first possibility lends credence to the charge that he pointed the presumed gun at one of them. The second makes me wonder why they did not take the opportunity to tell him to drop the gun.

I'll wait for details to be firmed up on this one. I the cops arrive and a drunk immediately points what they reasonably believe to be a gun at them, they are correct to drop him. If they had any time to give him instructions, they should do so before opening fire.

I apply the same standard of self-defense to officer that I would apply to any citizen--or myself. If someone is pointing a gun at me (or if I reasonably believe that he is), I am going to shoot. Period.

The stupidest thing I have ever seen on TV is two bad guys pointing guns at each other at point-blank range, yelling, "Drop it!" and "No, you drop it!!" What's with that BS? First one who fires wins. I'm firing while he attempts to get the word "drop" out. He'll be saying "it" from the ground.

When cops or citizens find themselves with a gun (or what they reasonably believe is a gun) pointed at them, it is not unreasonable that they should fire.

Like I said, though, as far as I am concerned, the jury's out on this one. Heck, the jury still hasn't heard everything yet.

eye95 said:

I apply the same standard of self-defense to officer that I would apply to any citizen.

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I agree with what you are saying, but what stands out to me is that our justice system doesn't apply the same standards to citizens that they apply to police officers.

When something might be a gun is justification for an officer to shoot, a citizen in the officers shoes will almost certainly find themselves with much more of a burden to prove they were in fear for their life. Where an Officer may reasonably believe that what they were seeing could have been a gun, a citizen my not be held to the same standard of reason that an officer would.