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Thread: OC in a public library

  1. #1
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    OC in a public library

    Just had a quick question...

    The way I understand it, I am legally allowed to carry in a public library, because MCL 123.1102 prevents a city from restricting carry, and because its not on the list of PFZs.

    Am I correct?

    -Harry

    Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk..

  2. #2
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry25 View Post
    Just had a quick question...

    The way I understand it, I am legally allowed to carry in a public library, because MCL 123.1102 prevents a city from restricting carry, and because its not on the list of PFZs.

    Am I correct?

    -Harry

    Sent from my Droid Incredible using Tapatalk..
    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...-here./page377 see post 5723

    Yes you are correct. The link above is about a MOC member being asked to leave the downtown Lansing library. MOC, Inc. is addressing it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  3. #3
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    You are correct. This does not mean you won't get hassled as lil_freak did recently. See his recent post in the stickied "list your open carry experience" thread.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  4. #4
    Regular Member lil_freak_66's Avatar
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    Yes preemption makes a public library unable to legally make you leave due to lawfully carrying a firearm.

    but,just like cities,occasionally you will find one trying to squirm around preemption one way or another,but they always get corrected sooner or later.
    not a lawyer, dont take anything i say as legal advice.


  5. #5
    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    You are generally correct, however remember that state law could theoretically come into play beyond the scope of simple city or county interference. For example, a library could be in the same building as a court house which would prohibit all carry, or it could be operated by a k-12 school system, requiring CPL holder OC. Lastly, it could be a college library, and the community colleges act (state law, not subject to preemption or any other laws, including the constitution apparently) grants colleges nearly unbounded authority to do whatever the hell they want, and it seems all prohibit weapons unless it's for their kop skools or their own kops. No matter what, always, always ask yourself if you are certain that you are within your rights to OC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    You are generally correct, however remember that state law could theoretically come into play beyond the scope of simple city or county interference. For example, a library could be in the same building as a court house which would prohibit all carry, or it could be operated by a k-12 school system, requiring CPL holder OC. Lastly, it could be a college library, and the community colleges act (state law, not subject to preemption or any other laws, including the constitution apparently) grants colleges nearly unbounded authority to do whatever the hell they want, and it seems all prohibit weapons unless it's for their kop skools or their own kops. No matter what, always, always ask yourself if you are certain that you are within your rights to OC.
    Please correct me if i am wrong: In order for OC be prohibited in Court or building where Court is housed, there should be a sign posted at the entrance with very specific language dictated by the Court Order. And, the way this order is written, if such sign is not there then legally OC is ok.

  7. #7
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasha601 View Post
    Please correct me if i am wrong: In order for OC be prohibited in Court or building where Court is housed, there should be a sign posted at the entrance with very specific language dictated by the Court Order. And, the way this order is written, if such sign is not there then legally OC is ok.
    That's my understanding.

    No weapons allowed by order of the court. Persons entering are subject to search.

    ...or the like.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

  8. #8
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    Read This Section (d) Posting of notice

    US Supreme Court
    http://law.onecle.com/pennsylvania/c...9.013.000.html

  9. #9
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    lil_freak_66 was kicked out of the library for OCing a shotgun. He intentionally misled everyone here on OCDO and within MOC.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    are shotguns banned from libraries or are you just clarifying what he was carrying?
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    are shotguns banned from libraries or are you just clarifying what he was carrying?
    No, they are not from municipally owned ones. The point is, the Capitol Area Library can't ban firearms or those that carry them....That's the big picture which at times can be missed.

    Either we are free or we are not.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    that's what i thought.
    "If it ain't loaded and cocked it don't shoot." - Rooster Cogburn
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  13. #13
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    MOC leadership is handling this situation, long gun discussions can be posted on MOC's website's long gun thread.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  14. #14
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    lil_freak_66 was kicked out of the library for OCing a shotgun. He intentionally misled everyone here on OCDO and within MOC.
    Whats misleading about OCing as he stated.I remember the same treatment of those with holstered handguns before any of you thought about it.Someone has to stand up for our rights.Toss out all PC ideas and fears,our lives depend on those who are willing to fight and die for our rights!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    MOC leadership is handling this situation, long gun discussions can be posted on MOC's website's long gun thread.
    Yes they are handling it by moving the post to the member section where you have to pay to post and view. Gives new meaning to their "nothing to hide" catch phrase

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    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt232004 View Post
    Yes they are handling it by moving the post to the member section where you have to pay to post and view. Gives new meaning to their "nothing to hide" catch phrase
    When a topic relates specifically to a members conduct we prefer to discuss that among the other members. Not the public at large.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    When a topic relates specifically to a members conduct we prefer to discuss that among the other members. Not the public at large.
    So if I was to pay for a membership to support MOC anything that I oc on my own time would have to be discussed among other members and not with the public at large just because I had shown my support and was legally carrying a firearm.

    I have not been around long but as someone new this is not the first thing I have seen them move to a members only section it does not look good to the public on their part from my point of view.

  18. #18
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt232004 View Post
    So if I was to pay for a membership to support MOC anything that I oc on my own time would have to be discussed among other members and not with the public at large just because I had shown my support and was legally carrying a firearm.

    I have not been around long but as someone new this is not the first thing I have seen them move to a members only section it does not look good to the public on their part from my point of view.

    Read my response on the MOC forum... it may help you understand what we chose to do. Also the leadership reserves the right delete or move any post or thread for any reason at any time on the MOC forums.
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

  19. #19
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    This certainly isn't an MOC forum.I remember someone OCing an AR near an Obama rally.
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 12-17-2010 at 04:38 PM.
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt232004 View Post
    Yes they are handling it by moving the post to the member section where you have to pay to post and view. Gives new meaning to their "nothing to hide" catch phrase
    What I meant was that the MOC forum has a thread on long gun OC for discussion, whereas OCDO doesn't want any discussing on long gun OC. that's all.

    And there are certain things discussed in the members only forum...so do many other orgs. If you want in just join.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt232004 View Post
    Yes they are handling it by moving the post to the member section where you have to pay to post and view. Gives new meaning to their "nothing to hide" catch phrase
    Welcome to OCDO!

    Quote Originally Posted by autosurgeon View Post
    When a topic relates specifically to a members conduct we prefer to discuss that among the other members. Not the public at large.
    agreed.
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    I just don't get it. Why are so many of you so PO'ed about lil's not mentioning what he was carrying (do we now need to notify the forum of the specific make, model, and caliber of the firearms we are OCing to make you happy)? He was OCing a firearm in a library. They have an illegal rule that seeks to keep carriers of all firearms out of the library. The pertinent information is just that. What he was carrying is irrelevant (I happen to agree that a shotgun in that setting is not the best application, but who am I to judge?).

    See Michigander's response; the matter regarding libraries is quite nuanced, and requires knowledge about the legality to carry at a specific library.

  23. #23
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrenchudm View Post
    I just don't get it. Why are so many of you so PO'ed about lil's not mentioning what he was carrying (do we now need to notify the forum of the specific make, model, and caliber of the firearms we are OCing to make you happy)? He was OCing a firearm in a library. They have an illegal rule that seeks to keep carriers of all firearms out of the library. The pertinent information is just that. What he was carrying is irrelevant (I happen to agree that a shotgun in that setting is not the best application, but who am I to judge?).

    See Michigander's response; the matter regarding libraries is quite nuanced, and requires knowledge about the legality to carry at a specific library.
    Ditto!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

  24. #24
    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jfrenchudm View Post
    I just don't get it. Why are so many of you so PO'ed about lil's not mentioning what he was carrying (do we now need to notify the forum of the specific make, model, and caliber of the firearms we are OCing to make you happy)? He was OCing a firearm in a library. They have an illegal rule that seeks to keep carriers of all firearms out of the library. The pertinent information is just that. What he was carrying is irrelevant (I happen to agree that a shotgun in that setting is not the best application, but who am I to judge?).

    See Michigander's response; the matter regarding libraries is quite nuanced, and requires knowledge about the legality to carry at a specific library.
    It is my opinion that, as in all things, it depends on who is doing it. The high school jock hero can do something outrageous and, because of his popularity, everyone thinks what he did is "oh so cool" and is immediately accepted and praised.... but let the school nerd/dork do the same thing and suddenly it isn't "oh so cool" but is "oh so dumb" and is not accepted nor praised.

    Bottom line... lil_freak's carrying a long gun into the library begs one question and one question only........... was it legal?

    All other questions delve into the realm of people's opinions of if it was a wise decision to do so and/or their personal opinion of lil_freak himself.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

  25. #25
    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post
    It is my opinion that, as in all things, it depends on who is doing it. The high school jock hero can do something outrageous and, because of his popularity, everyone thinks what he did is "oh so cool" and is immediately accepted and praised.... but let the school nerd/dork do the same thing and suddenly it isn't "oh so cool" but is "oh so dumb" and is not accepted nor praised.

    Bottom line... lil_freak's carrying a long gun into the library begs one question and one question only........... was it legal?

    All other questions delve into the realm of people's opinions of if it was a wise decision to do so and/or their personal opinion of lil_freak himself.
    Ditto!
    Today JESUS would tell me to sell my coat and buy two Springfield XD Compact 45acp's!

    NRA LIFER,GOA,MOC Inc.,CLSD,MCRGO,UAW! MOLON LABE!!

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