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Thread: A question about conceal carry with a CCW permit.

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    A question about conceal carry with a CCW permit.

    A friend of mine has the CCW permit and carry's his gun in a fanny pack that he never wears on his person but just holds in his hand or over his shoulder. I know that in Texas a woman cannot carry in her purse and must carry on his or her body. I'm wondering if it is legal in Arizona to conceal carry in a bag other than on your person even with a CCW permit? He told me once he took it to a theater and left it on the seat after the show and raced back only to find it sitting there just as he left it. Seems dangerous to be able to do that legally, so I'm guessing you need to have the gun on your body, in your pocket, or otherwise where you wouldn't be apt to leave it laying around.

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    I don't believe there is any such requirement for licensed (or unlicensed) concealed carry in AZ.

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    Women in Texas certainly can and do carry in a purse, and I know at least on state trooper who carries in a fanny pack that is never worn. As with anything else, you are responsible for keeping it under control.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrjenn View Post
    A friend of mine has the CCW permit and carry's his gun in a fanny pack that he never wears on his person but just holds in his hand or over his shoulder.
    The law is ARS 13-3102 .

    If you are over 21 in Arizona (residency NOT required), the method of carry is irrelevant, whether or not you have a CCW permit. Under the old law as interpreted by State v Moerman (a fanny pack case), fanny pack carry was not permitted. All that went away on July 26, 2010.

    CAVEAT - Even though the underlying statute that the decision was based on went away this year, the fanny pack court case will probably be cited by some liberal activist judge, given the opportunity.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 12-14-2010 at 03:49 PM.

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    Regular Member Sonora Rebel's Avatar
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    I have no idea why people put their guns in 'bags' not attached to them... but they do. Stuff like that is too easy to forget about and complacency kills. This is Arizona... not Texas or any other place. If you're going to carry a piece... then carry it in the tried and true traditional method... 'On you'! All this other stuff is a cultural hold-over from wherever else you may have come from.

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    Regular Member mFonz77's Avatar
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    Far be it for me to criticize anyone's method of carry, however, personally, as I am still remotely slim, trim, and good-looking (and modest!) I would never carry in a fanny pack. They just look weird, regardless of how tactically sound they may or may not be. That said, if I see someone not over the age of 60 wearing a fanny pack, I try to catch their eye and give them a wide berth, as there's a good chance there's a gun in there.
    My location says I am from Sierra Vista, AZ which is where I live now but I actually lived in MO for 26 years! So please stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about when I post in the Missouri forum!

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    Thanks for the information. The ambiguity of gun laws make carry either open or concealed a bit hazardous. Another question on concealed carry without a CCW permit I have is about concealed carry while driving a car. My brother says the instructor told him that if you carry concealed without a permit while driving a car you are in violation of the law. What the heck kind of law is that? I can walk around with a gun in my pocket legally, but if I get into my car with that same gun in my pocket, I'm in violation?
    He said it has something to do with transporting guns and is illegal. Is that true?

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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    The Arizona law on concealed carry does not care if you are in your car or in a porta-potty. If he is quoting the instructor then the instructor is mistaken. You may carry concealed while you are operating your motor vehicle and you do not need a permit.

    The only time you need a permit is to carry concealed (correct me if I am wrong Fred) is when you are in a place that serves alcohol and is not posted with a No Firearms notice and you are carrying concealed Open carry is not permited. . You are also not allowed to drink.
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Regular Member lykwidtepp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrjenn View Post
    Thanks for the information. The ambiguity of gun laws make carry either open or concealed a bit hazardous. Another question on concealed carry without a CCW permit I have is about concealed carry while driving a car. My brother says the instructor told him that if you carry concealed without a permit while driving a car you are in violation of the law. What the heck kind of law is that? I can walk around with a gun in my pocket legally, but if I get into my car with that same gun in my pocket, I'm in violation?
    He said it has something to do with transporting guns and is illegal. Is that true?

    Technically, doesn't that only apply to those 18-20? From what I understand if your in the ages of 18 to 20 and you open carry, once you enter your vehicle you then have to place your pistol in a holster, inside your glove compartment or scabbard. (13-3102 -B3) Ever since the new law that doesn't restrict those to conceal over 21.

    I'd say it's still a good reason to have your CCW since you'll be able to skip NICS checks when purchasing a new firearm. So purchasing from gun dealers will go alot quicker.
    Last edited by lykwidtepp; 12-15-2010 at 11:24 PM.
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    Regular Member Phoenix David's Avatar
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    Ooops.. I tend to forget about the youngins out there. hehe. My comments were for those 21 and older
    Freedom is a bit like sex, when your getting it you take it for granted, when you're not you want it bad, other people get mad at you for having it and others want to take it away from you so only they have it.

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    Thanks for this info guys especially the statute number 13-3102. I looked it up and found what I was looking for.

    http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....13&DocType=ARS

    13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

    A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
    1. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation:
    (a) In the furtherance of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706, a violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03 or any other felony offense; or
    (b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon; or
    2. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or concealed within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation if the person is under twenty-one years of age; or...

    Makes no obvious sense to me why they restrict someone under 21, but being 58 says it doesn't apply to me anyway.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrjenn View Post
    A question about conceal carry
    on OPEN CARRY.ORG?
    Carry On.

    Ed

    VirginiaOpenCarry.Org (Coins, Shirts and Patches)
    - - - -
    For VA Open Carry Cards send a S.A.2S.E. to: Ed's OC cards, Box 16143, Wash DC 20041-6143 (they are free but some folks enclose a couple bucks too)

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    13-3102 A.1.(b) written too broadly?

    Quote Originally Posted by rrjenn View Post
    Thanks for this info guys especially the statute number 13-3102. I looked it up and found what I was looking for.

    http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument....13&DocType=ARS

    13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions

    A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
    1. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation:
    (a) In the furtherance of a serious offense as defined in section 13-706, a violent crime as defined in section 13-901.03 or any other felony offense; or
    (b) When contacted by a law enforcement officer and failing to accurately answer the officer if the officer asks whether the person is carrying a concealed deadly weapon; or
    2. Carrying a deadly weapon except a pocket knife concealed on his person or concealed within his immediate control in or on a means of transportation if the person is under twenty-one years of age; or...

    Makes no obvious sense to me why they restrict someone under 21, but being 58 says it doesn't apply to me anyway.
    It seems to me that (b) is currently written too broadly. The way I read it, an officer could approach anyone at random and force them to answer the question under threat of arrest. If you were to add the requirement of being "lawfully detained", then I think my objection would go away. Anyone agree?

    A4L

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rrjenn View Post
    Makes no obvious sense to me why they restrict someone under 21
    No logic was invovled, just politics.

    Prior to Constitutional Carry, 18-21 year olds could not have permits. With Constitutional Carry, permits were no longer required. In order to get the bill through, Constitutional Carry was limited to adults.

    We (AzCDL) intend on revisting the 18-21 restrictions in future sessions.

    "Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made" - Otto von Bismark.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armed4Life View Post
    It seems to me that (b) is currently written too broadly. The way I read it, an officer could approach anyone at random and force them to answer the question under threat of arrest. If you were to add the requirement of being "lawfully detained", then I think my objection would go away. Anyone agree?A4L
    Scroll down to ARS 13-3102.L.1 for the definition of "contact."

    Fred

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    A3 baffled me till someone told me it refers to dry ice bullets that will dissipate leaving no proof what gun was used. Can't imagine a brain so devious as to come up with that. 007 James Bond maybe.

    3. Manufacturing, possessing, transporting, selling or transferring a prohibited weapon, except that if the violation involves dry ice, a person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly possessing the dry ice with the intent to cause injury to or death of another person or to cause damage to the property of another person

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    Quote Originally Posted by rrjenn View Post
    A3 baffled me till someone told me it refers to dry ice bullets that will dissipate leaving no proof what gun was used. Can't imagine a brain so devious as to come up with that. 007 James Bond maybe.

    3. Manufacturing, possessing, transporting, selling or transferring a prohibited weapon, except that if the violation involves dry ice, a person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly possessing the dry ice with the intent to cause injury to or death of another person or to cause damage to the property of another person
    Actually, it's nothing so exotic. It refers to dry ice bombs, made by putting dry ice into a sealed container so that it will explode when the pressure generated by the sublimating dry ice exceeds the strength of the container. It's one of the prohibited weapons defined in ARS 13-3101.

    They were a popular form of summer entertainment when I was a teen.

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    Seem to be a few of the last posts to this subject were deleted? Was it due to content?

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