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Thread: Pacific Mo man confronts armed buglars in garage, on video

  1. #1
    KansasScout
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    Pacific Mo man confronts armed buglars in garage, on video

    This homeowner confronted two burglers in his Pacific Mo. garage with a handgun. One of the men had a pistol himself. No shots were fired. Personally I think the homeowner did not handle this well at all and is lucky he was not shot. Had he shot the burglar he might have had a problem with the law given that the garage was detached and not the residence. Not sure about Mo laws on that.
    Anyhow, watch this interesting clip

    http://www.fox2now.com/news/ktvi-hom...0,553236.story

    Me? Shotgun and waited outside for the PD. Going in the garage was nearly a suicidal move. He was just lucky.

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    Well, they got some lineup material. One guy's face and the other's ass. I can't believe folks are still wearing pants so stupidly.

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    Regular Member usmcbess's Avatar
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    I am from Pacific

    I'm pretty sure our revision to castle doctrine would cover the guy. But yeah the dude definatly almost got himself shot.

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    The criminal had a gun in his hand, pointing it at the owner. I don't even think a jury in New York or Maryland would convict the guy for shooting him if he chose to. In Missouri, slim chance he would even have been charged with that video.
    Last edited by MK; 12-14-2010 at 01:53 AM.

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    Regular Member CharleyMarbles's Avatar
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    Honestly I would have shot. The moment I seen the weapon I would have downed him and headed for the second perp. as I would have had no reason to belive he was not armed as well. My thought process would have been is he headed to my house to take my family hostage? Sorry but I'm not as young as I once was and I don't intend to play tough guy games anymore I fully intend to end any encounter as fast as I am safely able to and secure me and my family's safety.

    I'm glad it worked out for the guy but he realy needs to get more training if he is going to be armed.
    Just to play devils advocate here for a sec what if the bad guy had had a LOADED firearm and shot the good guy? now the bad guy has 2 firearms to terrorize his next victoms with. Not to metion if the two of them had decided to take the house and create either a stand off situation or had managed to get the wife to send the LEO away at gunpoint? Now not only is he dead but now his wife and family are in peril.

    My stance is Identify the target and STOP the threat !!!!!

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    my take,,

    the home owner knew there was 2 BGs in the garage, threatening no one!
    going in after them was a bad plan.

    he should have just took cover in the yard in front, and ordered them to come out, with your hands up!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    he should have just took cover in the yard in front, and ordered them to come out, with your hands up!!
    While I agree with this from a moral stand point, it seems to me the law seems to favor actuly shooting them, VS brandishing your weppon, and holding them at gun point. Doesn't look so good when you are the one with a gun in your hands pointed at another human being when the cops show up, more likely to get yourself shot in that situation.

    Just a quick comment, I admit I did not have time right now to watch the video. Hope to do so later...
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    Actually, I would have preferred they remain in the garage until the police arrived. They get paid to actually confront the BGs and take them into custody. Let them take the risks.

    I'd pull my firearm and keep it at the ready, stationing myself outside the garage, and wait. If they tried to come out, then I'd announce that they were under arrest and tell them to get on the ground. Hopefully they'd comply. I wouldn't shoot them in the back if they attempted to flee. If the one with the gun attempted to fire at the cover I selected for myself, I'd return fire, center mass.

    The best outcome would be that the BGs would think they had time and stick around inside the garage, unaware of my presence, until the cops arrived.

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    The police recovered the gun which had been ditched. It was NOT loaded...which is disconcerting in that it is easy to presume that the bad guy hesitated to use the weapon because he lacked nads (mental note to myself - that kind of thinking can get a good guy killed).

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    In this case, i would have called the police and let them know of the burglary in progress. There would have been no need to confront them considering they were doing myself no harm. I rather lose items that can be replaced than lose my life which cannot.

    Also, if i were in a situation where someone pulled a gun on me and was aiming at me i would defend myself without hesitation. It only takes a split second to pull a trigger and how do i know if he intends to shoot me or not. It is better to be safe than sorry.
    Last edited by HolyOrangeJuice; 12-14-2010 at 06:49 PM.

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    Regular Member Griz's Avatar
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    Missouri allows for deadly force in protection of property.

    http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5630000041.HTM

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    Regular Member ooghost1oo's Avatar
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    That situation makes me seriously wonder about:

    A stand-off on your property (pretty sure lethal force is legal when trying to stop a felony in progress?).

    At what point are you authorized to shoot after warning to BG to 'drop it'. How is this situation different for a civilian versus a cop? Or did he have just cause to shoot as soon as the BG had a gun on HIM?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ooghost1oo View Post
    That situation makes me seriously wonder about:

    A stand-off on your property (pretty sure lethal force is legal when trying to stop a felony in progress?).

    At what point are you authorized to shoot after warning to BG to 'drop it'. How is this situation different for a civilian versus a cop? Or did he have just cause to shoot as soon as the BG had a gun on HIM?
    Warn? At least in AZ, as soon as he comes into my home- that includes the garage, I can drop him. I watched the video stunned that the BG was still alive. Someone pointing a gun at me in my home is going to be on the receiving end of some Federal LE Tactical flavored 00 buck, no warning, no standoff.

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    Regular Member Ivan Sample's Avatar
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    Oh yes he is very lucky that he didn't get shot. If that gun would have been loaded, I think the outcome would have been different.
    Capricorn

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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyMarbles View Post
    Honestly I would have shot. The moment I seen the weapon I would have downed him and headed for the second perp. as I would have had no reason to belive he was not armed as well. My thought process would have been is he headed to my house to take my family hostage? Sorry but I'm not as young as I once was and I don't intend to play tough guy games anymore I fully intend to end any encounter as fast as I am safely able to and secure me and my family's safety.

    I'm glad it worked out for the guy but he realy needs to get more training if he is going to be armed.
    Just to play devils advocate here for a sec what if the bad guy had had a LOADED firearm and shot the good guy? now the bad guy has 2 firearms to terrorize his next victoms with. Not to metion if the two of them had decided to take the house and create either a stand off situation or had managed to get the wife to send the LEO away at gunpoint? Now not only is he dead but now his wife and family are in peril.

    My stance is Identify the target and STOP the threat !!!!!
    Agreed.. If you don't have the ability to shoot a bad guy like this idiot didn't, you’re not only going to get killed but your family as well. It may even get your wife and daughter raped to boot. If you can’t pull the trigger don't own a gun, just sit there like an idiot and beg for your life. I am sorry I really hate it when people have the ability to save their family but don't have the marbles to do it. Same goes for all the fools who watch another person get the crap kicked out of him and they just stand there watching it like it’s a UFC match.

    It may be heartless of me but that is the cold hard truth, you do 10 times more damage than good by having the ability but no balls to do what is needed. It all boils down to how you want to go out in this world. It’s either on your knees begging for mercy or on your feet fighting till you have no more blood pumping through your veins. You don't always have to shoot a bag guy but when you have a threat like this fool did your a complete idiot if you don't. This fool got lucky period.


    "If you're not shootin', you should be loadin'. If you're not loadin, you should be movin', if you're not movin', someone's gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick."---Clint smith

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    Last edited by zack991; 12-30-2010 at 09:57 PM.
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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HolyOrangeJuice View Post
    Also, if i were in a situation where someone pulled a gun on me and was aiming at me i would defend myself without hesitation. It only takes a split second to pull a trigger and how do i know if he intends to shoot me or not. It is better to be safe than sorry.
    I could not agree more.
    BG points a gun at me, no hesitation lights out for the BG.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC4me View Post
    The police recovered the gun which had been ditched. It was NOT loaded...which is disconcerting in that it is easy to presume that the bad guy hesitated to use the weapon because he lacked nads (mental note to myself - that kind of thinking can get a good guy killed).
    In my state, it matters not if the BG's gun was or was not loaded. The apprehension of the victim that he is in imminent danger of serious harm is what matters.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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  18. #18
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    So it appears that a number of you good folks who have responded that you would shoot the perp immediately have shoot BG's before, eh? Not being a jerk with this, but let's face it. Unless you have been in a similar situation, you really don't know how you'll respond. We all hope that we will do what is necessary if something like this actually happens to us. But until it does, we really can't say with absolute certainty how we will respond and what we'll do.

    I do suspect most people on this site would probably handle the situation in accordance with its immediate severity. I say this because this is a topic which is frequently addressed and as a result, causes us to give serious thought to extreme encounter situations.

    Just be prepared and safe, friends.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    In my state, it matters not if the BG's gun was or was not loaded. The apprehension of the victim that he is in imminent danger of serious harm is what matters.
    As it shouldn't matter. What should matter is the reasonable belief by the victim that he is in grave danger.

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    Who knows, maybe the homeowner went out there with an unloaded gun as well. He could have been a little panicked and not taken a safety off or missed racking a round. Who knows if he tried to squeeze that trigger or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    Who knows, maybe the homeowner went out there with an unloaded gun as well. He could have been a little panicked and not taken a safety off or missed racking a round. Who knows if he tried to squeeze that trigger or not.
    There are a lot of what ifs and needless to say if he did forget to rack the slide than he needs to get back to the basics and thank whatever God he believes in that he and his family were not killed. If anyone here beside me who has been in incidents like this knows you resort back to your training first.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4lDJziTP1Y
    Last edited by zack991; 01-04-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    Wow. Dumbness abounds.

    I don't have anything in my garage worth dying or killing for. I would only risk my life for a life, never for stuff. I have a wife and four little kids who are irreplacable. I can buy more stuff but I cannot replace myself if I am injured, killed or wrongfully jailed.

    On the other hand, threats to my wonderful and irreplacable items noted above or myself will get you a nice .45ACP accupuncture treatment.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom First View Post
    I don't have anything in my garage worth dying or killing for. I would only risk my life for a life, never for stuff. I have a wife and four little kids who are irreplaceable. I can buy more stuff but I cannot replace myself if I am injured, killed or wrongfully jailed.

    On the other hand, threats to my wonderful and irreplaceable items noted above or myself will get you a nice .45ACP acupuncture treatment.
    The simple fact of you “a bad guy “that has made the horrible choice to enter my home is enough for me to take action, I don't know what your intentions are that is true. I don't know if your here to rob me, rape my wife, or worst. Yet I damn well know I am not going to ask you 20 questions to find out. If you enter my home for whatever reason I will shoot you down that very inch that you cross that imaginary line. People who play the question games are fools; the simple truth that they have entered your home to begin with is enough to say they want to roll the dice with their life and cause you harm.
    Last edited by zack991; 01-04-2011 at 05:34 PM.
    -I come in peace, I didn't bring artillery. But I am pleading with you with tears in my eyes: If you screw with me, I'll kill you all.
    -Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.
    Marine General James Mattis,

  24. #24
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    The homeowner's approach was dumb!

    Safest legal procedure:

    Step 1: Always assume the suspect is armed.

    Step 2: Call police while directing your family to take cover.

    Step 3: You already have video footage, so grab a license-plate number, if you can, provided you won't be risking yourself beyond cover should the perps exit the garage.

    Step 4: Take cover with your family inside the house.

    Step 5: Blow the perps away if they step inside the house.

    Seriously: Law enforcement is paid good money to confront criminals, they're well-trained to do so, and they volunteered for the duty. Let them chase down and take down the suspects.

    If the criminal's gun had been loaded, I seriously believe you'd have had one dead homeowner, one widow, and two or more orphans. There's nothing worse than being a dead hero, when you could have been a live husband and father, and hero to your wife and kids for using sound judgement and protecting them.
    Last edited by since9; 01-06-2011 at 01:51 AM.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Freedom First's Avatar
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    My garage full of stuff...

    I draw a very distinct line between a threat to my stuff and a threat to my family or other humans. With a criminal in garage I would follow along with since9's plan outlined above. Criminal in the house I agree with Zack991 and he goes down.
    Freedom can never be lost, only given away by ignorance, by choice, or at the point of a gun. Here in America we can still choose.

    Freedom First 1775

    "I aim to misbehave..." Malcolm Reynolds

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