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Thread: Questionable Handling

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Questionable Handling

    Went to a sporting goods store last night to shop for holsters. I was told to bring the firearms in to ensure a proper fit. I did (unloaded and no mags).

    The young gentleman behind the counter uncased the firearms, checked them, released the slides and hammers, then placed them on the counter. Pointed directly at my ample midsection. I was a bit freaked to say the least so I stepped to the side. He took one pistol and entered the holster isle. While we searched he continually spun my pistol on the palm of his hand. I was so freaked I couldn't even look. I immediately concluded my business and left.

    In my day we walked barefoot, up hill, 20 miles in snow just to go to school. So am I being a prude? Or has gun safety and handling changed?

  2. #2
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    I don't think gun safety has changed, I'm thinking you were dealing with somebody that never had an training.
    This person didn't show any respect to you or the firearm. I suggest that you let somebody at that store know how the co-worker behaved.

    I wouldn't do business there.

    JMHO

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    Founder's Club Member springfield 1911's Avatar
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    I suspect that he was trying to get a feel for your piece. Kidding aside he did check to see if it was clear but has a lot to learn about true safety that all guns are loaded and should be treated as such and etiquette .

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    That was just WAY wrong for him to be doing that. Whenever I've gone looking at guns they lock the slide back and set it on the gun pad facing either to the right or left and I hand it back the same way. I just can't believe he was spinning it in hins hand though .
    Last edited by XDFDE45; 12-14-2010 at 01:30 PM.
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XDFDE45 View Post
    That was just WAY wrong for him to be doing that. Whenever I've gone looking at guns they lock the slide back and set it on the gun pad facing either to the right or left and I hand it back the same way. I just can't believe he was spinning it in hins hand though .
    Neither did the manager I called. Wasn't trying to be a dick but I think it is a big enough issue they should know about it. And yes, he was spinning it. It was flat on his open palm and he was spinning it, stopping/catching it, then doing it again. I am almost positive he didn't even know he was doing it as we were both searching through the holsters.

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    It would freak me out too.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Neither did the manager I called. Wasn't trying to be a dick but I think it is a big enough issue they should know about it. And yes, he was spinning it. It was flat on his open palm and he was spinning it, stopping/catching it, then doing it again. I am almost positive he didn't even know he was doing it as we were both searching through the holsters.
    Do you mind telling me what store this was so I can make a note to avoid it? If you don't want to name them here just shoot me a PM then.
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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    ..care to name the store?? or location?

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Gander Mountain in Kenosha.

    I didn't get the clerk's name I was dealing with. I guess I could have handled it differently but I'm still not even comfortable carrying firearms in public. Cased, uncased, OC, whatever. I hail from a Police State originally. I have been out of the firearms scene for quite a while hence my apprehension.

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Thanks. It is a little intimidating at first but once you do it and continue to do it on a regular basis it will become second nature.
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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Gander Mountain in Kenosha.

    I didn't get the clerk's name I was dealing with. I guess I could have handled it differently but I'm still not even comfortable carrying firearms in public. Cased, uncased, OC, whatever. I hail from a Police State originally. I have been out of the firearms scene for quite a while hence my apprehension.
    Unsafe handling is reason enough for apprehension.

    Try Jalensky's they are my store of choice and they have a nice lay away program.
    Last edited by oak1971; 12-14-2010 at 01:52 PM.
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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Personally, I would take the opportunity to call his supervisor and ask the supervisor to show the man how to properly handle a firearm in public whether "empty" or not. Whether or not to patronize that business, it would depend upon the rest of the employees and how they interact with me and the prices offered on the store's merchandise.

    One person does not a crowd make. I frequent some businesses all the time that have a few employees that don't ring my bell. That does not keep me from doing business with them. Now if it were the owner, that would be a different thing; it would also depend upon how serious the owner upset me. I had a lousy next-door neighbor who still manages a store in town for his elderly parents. I do business in that store because as a manager he has never treated me poorly. I keep my marbles separate from my ball bearings.

    ETA: I would have told the man not to spin my firearm. I would have asked him to hand it back to me. I can try the firearm in holsters.
    Last edited by CenTex; 12-14-2010 at 02:32 PM.
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    Regular Member LR Yote 312's Avatar
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    What an a+shat !!!!

    If that is all the respect a persons property is entitled too...That store dont deserve my business.

    Sorry but layin all the firearms on the counter...and then walkin away and leaving them unattended...plus the gun spinning would have set me off right then and there.
    Screw the manager....The employee can deal with a p+ssed off customer that he p+ssed off.

    After my encounter with a certain PD where the officer insisted on cuffing me and removing my firearm from my holster....and have to ask for instructions on how to unload my 1911....I have a little problem handing my firearm over to just anyone.

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    Regular Member XDFDE45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    After my encounter with a certain PD where the officer insisted on cuffing me and removing my firearm from my holster....and have to ask for instructions on how to unload my 1911....I have a little problem handing my firearm over to just anyone.

    LR Yote
    Now THAT is scary!!!!
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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LR Yote 312 View Post
    Sorry but layin all the firearms on the counter...and then walkin away and leaving them unattended...
    To clarify about the counter.

    The clerk took one pistol to the isle. I did not leave the other one. I placed it back in the case and took it with us. I hear you loud and clear though.
    Last edited by HandyHamlet; 12-14-2010 at 02:53 PM.

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    Regular Member BROKENSPROKET's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by springfield 1911 View Post
    I suspect that he was trying to get a feel for your piece. Kidding aside he did check to see if it was clear but has a lot to learn about true safety that all guns are loaded and should be treated as such and etiquette .
    I might get schooled for saying this but...

    The firearm safety rules that states treat every gun should be treated as if it's loaded is in place because off all the people that have gotten shot with a firearm that was ASSUMED to be empty.

    After a firearm has been cleared where the handler and myself know that it is cleared in a controlled environment, where we not assuming it's cleared, but we are confident it is cleared, it does not phase me if the barrel is inadvertantly gets pointed at me.

    But If we are hunting or at the range, it bothers me extremely.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Shop somewhere else!

    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    Gander Mountain in Kenosha.

    I didn't get the clerk's name I was dealing with. I guess I could have handled it differently but I'm still not even comfortable carrying firearms in public. Cased, uncased, OC, whatever. I hail from a Police State originally. I have been out of the firearms scene for quite a while hence my apprehension.
    That Gander Mountain is barely half a mile or so from my house and EVERY time I have gone in that store to the back where all the guns and ammo are I have NEVER been helped by ANY of the staff that actually work in the firearms department. That is the absolute worst firearms department I have ever been to. I have walked the gun racks and ammo aisles for over an hour several times over the past three years and not one of those idiots would offer assistance. I have stood at the counter waiting for the idiot to come over and help with pistols and instead he leaves and goes in the back of the store. The last time I was there the assistant manager told me I couldn't carry in the store....yeah....I took him to the Gander Mountain sign and asked him to read it. I haven't been back but once and that was only because I needed a gun case for a pistol. I refuse to shop at Gander Mountain in Kenosha.

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    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    That is the absolute worst firearms department I have ever been to.
    You know... I didn't want to get into it. But. When I called the manager today I described the two young men and one young lady behind the firearms counter. I couldn't recall the clerk's name who "helped" me. The manager told me there was supposed to be one older gentleman in charge of and running the counter and not the three I described.



    Live and learn.

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    Campaign Veteran rcawdor57's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    You know... I didn't want to get into it. But. When I called the manager today I described the two young men and one young lady behind the firearms counter. I couldn't recall the clerk's name who "helped" me. The manager told me there was supposed to be one older gentleman in charge of and running the counter and not the three I described.



    Live and learn.
    It is a shame too since G.M. supports open carry BIGTIME. But....that store sucks! Every gun I have purchased at Cabelas SHOULD have been purchased at that G.M. Instead I would rather drive the 61 miles EACH WAY to Cabelas and back AND GO BACK AGAIN after 48 hours for my handgun purchases. Let's see...in the past 14 months I have purchased two shotguns, a semi auto .22 carbine, a revolver and several boxes of ammo from Cabelas instead of that G.M. store. All because they have terrible customer service in the firearms department.

  20. #20
    Regular Member Kelevra's Avatar
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    I feel the same way as you about a barrel pointed at me. Any time. I have mentioned it to both counter people and other customers. One guy pointed a rifle at me. I grabbed the end of the barrel and moved it away. He was miffed but I won't put up with it. Guns that are supposed to be cleared have gone off in stores and at gun shows so I do not appreciate inattentive gun handling anywhere.

    I have had counter people berate me for checking chamber right after they did. I don't care. A gun is not empty till I know it is.

    As for your experience, I really would not have liked that at all.

  21. #21
    Founder's Club Member protias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcawdor57 View Post
    It is a shame too since G.M. supports open carry BIGTIME. But....that store sucks! Every gun I have purchased at Cabelas SHOULD have been purchased at that G.M. Instead I would rather drive the 61 miles EACH WAY to Cabelas and back AND GO BACK AGAIN after 48 hours for my handgun purchases. Let's see...in the past 14 months I have purchased two shotguns, a semi auto .22 carbine, a revolver and several boxes of ammo from Cabelas instead of that G.M. store. All because they have terrible customer service in the firearms department.
    Fletcher Arms in Waukesha is closer. They also are perfectly fine with people carrying in there.
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    Regular Member theoicarry's Avatar
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    Wow,
    I have never seen that in a store before, much less Gander. I have always found everyone dealing with weapons to be professional. I knew better than that at age 10.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    I'm in the camp of those who believe this type of disrespect for a firearm is never ever appropriate. Even if you've verified that it is indeed unloaded, the idea is to always treat that firearm with the same respect as one that isn't verified to be so. That way you never get in the habit of bad muzzle control and improper handling. There's no excuse for this garbage.

    I actually used to work for Gander Mt. a long time ago. At that time, they had a rather extensive test before hiring someone in the firearms department but after you were hired there wasn't any real type of training for the safe handling of firearms. I bet now there is no such test and still is no training once you are hired. I reach that conclusion not only because of this incident but also from witnessing similar activity myself.

    When I worked there, I would verify a chamber was clear and if it wasn't unwiedly; would hand the firearm to the customer with the action open. If by the design of the firearm it would be hard to hand over action open; I would show the customer that the chamber was empty before closing it and handing it over. I never once objected to a customer rechecking it himself and all this was done with proper muzzle control. Although I did receive one complaint for doing so I would be quick to correct a customer on proper handling if I saw it. I received many more letters of praise for my customer service so I never got a hard time from the manager.

    Also, when I worked there it seemed that all the employee's were "gun guys (and gals)" who were knowledgable and really liked talking to customers about the subject. Now days; not so much.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    When I worked there, I would verify a chamber was clear and if it wasn't unwiedly; would hand the firearm to the customer with the action open. If by the design of the firearm it would be hard to hand over action open; I would show the customer that the chamber was empty before closing it and handing it over. I never once objected to a customer rechecking it himself and all this was done with proper muzzle control. Although I did receive one complaint for doing so I would be quick to correct a customer on proper handling if I saw it. I received many more letters of praise for my customer service so I never got a hard time from the manager.

    Also, when I worked there it seemed that all the employee's were "gun guys (and gals)" who were knowledgable and really liked talking to customers about the subject. Now days; not so much.
    This is why I go to Dam Road Gun Shop in Delavan. They check it and put it on the counter pointing at neither of us, I usually re-check it and then when I'm done I lay it the same way they did on the counter.

    In addition, they are a small, locally owned shop who supports constitutional carry.

    Even if they are a couple bucks more, I buy from them.

  25. #25
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BROKENSPROKET
    After a firearm has been cleared where the handler and myself know that it is cleared in a controlled environment, where we not assuming it's cleared, but we are confident it is cleared, it does not phase me if the barrel is inadvertantly pointed at me.
    Before I bought my first pistol, while I was discussing setting up a safety lesson & trying on various makes to see if they fit my hand, the safety trainer handed me a pistol (which both he & the counter guy checked to be sure it was clear) & wanted me to point it at him!!! I kept trying to point it to one side or the floor, and it was really wierd to point it AT the safety guy, even though I'd just seen that it was safe & he was telling me to do it. (He wanted to see how it lined up in my hand / wrist.)

    Quote Originally Posted by kelevra
    I have had counter people berate me for checking the chamber right after they did.
    When I bought my second pistol, this wasn't a make I'd handled before (more than to shoot a rental at the range & fall in lust with it). So I asked the sales guy to show me how to break it down for cleaning. I saw him clear it before he handed it to me, and started to go on with his instructions about how to take it apart when he stopped me & insisted I also check it. Since it's a Glock this double-check makes sense - have to pull the trigger in order to take it apart.

    "All guns are always loaded" is a good rule, with the most allowance for safety. Everyone can make a mistake, and that's an extra layer of oops prevention, when an oops can be pretty painful & messy.
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