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Thread: Washington Bill Attempts to Restrict Knife Length

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Washington Bill Attempts to Restrict Knife Length

    http://www.ammoland.com/2010/12/14/w...%28ammoland%29

    Rep. Sherry Appleton's (D – LD23) bill would mean that the average fisherman, fishing one of Washington’s many coastal areas or rivers whose jacket falls over their 6-inch filet knife would suddenly be committing a crime. Washington has many hunters and is a popular hunting destination for those who travel to hunt.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Question

    Any idea of the likelihood of passage? I always carried what many people would consider "big" knives when I lived in Washington, sometimes openly, sometimes not, but am somewhat out of touch with the current political climate in the legislature, especially in light of the last election.

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    Unfortunately I think it has a pretty good shot at passing. The rational they will likely use is that there are a lot of cities that restrict blades to the length called out in the bill. The only rational thought that went into this was keeping the text that requires one to furtively carry with intent to conceal. Most prosecutors know that you have to be pretty articulate in describing the actions that caused an officer to believe the actions of the subject were furtive.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Quote Originally Posted by joeroket View Post
    Unfortunately I think it has a pretty good shot at passing. The rational they will likely use is that there are a lot of cities that restrict blades to the length called out in the bill. The only rational thought that went into this was keeping the text that requires one to furtively carry with intent to conceal. Most prosecutors know that you have to be pretty articulate in describing the actions that caused an officer to believe the actions of the subject were furtive.
    That is very unfortunate.

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    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    Maybe its time for a Concealed Deadly Weapons License and just lump knives, nun-chucks, throwing stars and what ever else is considered a deadly weapon.

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    Campaign Veteran gogodawgs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    Maybe its time for a Concealed Deadly Weapons License and just lump knives, nun-chucks, throwing stars and what ever else is considered a deadly weapon.
    Bricks, sticks, fists, lawnmowers, Vulcan mind melds.....
    Live Free or Die!

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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    Maybe its time for a Concealed Deadly Weapons License and just lump knives, nun-chucks, throwing stars and what ever else is considered a deadly weapon.

    While I obviously would prefer constitutional carry everywhere, I never did understand how I was allowed to have a loaded firearm under my coat but not a dagger, or brass knuckles, etc., depending on the silly rules of whatever jurisdiction I happened to be in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Bricks, sticks, fists, lawnmowers, Vulcan mind melds.....
    Yea, those Mind Melds can be tricky!

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Her Response..........

    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    Maybe its time for a Concealed Deadly Weapons License and just lump knives, nun-chucks, throwing stars and what ever else is considered a deadly weapon.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    This may look familiar to some
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Dear Whitney,

    This will be a new session and there is no HB 1006. We are working on some new legislation about knives longer than 3 1/2 inches and I will take into consideration your e-mail. Thanks so much,

    Sherry

    Representative Sherry Appleton
    23rd Leg. District, Position 1
    Vice Chair, State Government and Tribal Affairs John L. O'Brien Building, Room 424 P.O. Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600
    (360) 786-7934
    Executive Assistant: Donna Bezon
    bezon_do@leg.wa.gov


    OOPs!!! Just realized it is my bill from this session - after the special session I am a bit tired. Sorry. I sent your suggestions to staff and will see what they say about the legalities. Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing out these flaws in the legislation. I do believe dirks and daggers are a little out of date as terminology - and need to be updated. Most people would call them a knife.



    Sherry

    Representative Sherry Appleton
    23rd Leg. District, Position 1
    Vice Chair, State Government and Tribal Affairs John L. O'Brien Building, Room 424 P.O. Box 40600 Olympia, WA 98504-0600
    (360) 786-7934
    Executive Assistant: Donna Bezon
    bezon_do@leg.wa.gov


    -----Original Message-----
    From: whitney.
    Subject: NC: HB 1006

    HOUSE INTERNET E-MAIL DELIVERY SERVICE

    TO: Representative Sherry Appleton

    FROM: Whitney (Non-Constituent)

    BILL: 1006 (Against)

    SUBJECT: HB 1006

    MESSAGE:

    Since I carry a pretty large knifes in my hunting and diving gear I am concerned about what the letter of the law says here. I suspect the intent is to "clean up" the legal vernacular. If I have a knife exceeding three and one half inches in my dive bag or in my backpack I could potentially be in some legal trouble depending on the interpretation. I interpret the word "Furtively" to mean a secretive or similar motive.

    If this passes, I and every other diver and hunter could have a problem. Unless there is added an exception for people engaging in either activity as evidenced by the presence of other gear associated with the activity (divers would have tanks, mask, fins, suit, etc and hunters would have bow, rifle, etc) then everyone will be at the mercy of any law officer that wants to make it an issue.

    Eliminating the terms "dirk" and "dagger", and substituting "knife" may have some unintended consequences. There is more than one "legal expert" that has successfully argued that a knife is not a dirk or dagger. Might open up the legal concealment of both those old weapons.

    "fur•tive/ˈfərtiv/Adjective
    1. Attempting to avoid notice or attention, typically because of guilt or a belief that discovery would lead to trouble; secretive.
    2. Suggestive of guilty nervousness. "

    To avoid being "furtive" one should then just carry the knife openly. Of course then they will fall victim to all the local regulation of knives such as Seattle where you can't carry a knife of ANY length. Pretty much covers most hunting knives and diver's knives that I've ever seen.

    This could all be solved if the State added knives to preemption and went back to calling the CPL a "Concealed Weapons License". Can anyone there list the number of cities that "outlaw" knives over 3-1/2 inches and any with "fixed blades" such as Seattle?


    Very Respectfully
    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManInBlack View Post
    While I obviously would prefer constitutional carry everywhere, I never did understand how I was allowed to have a loaded firearm under my coat but not a dagger, or brass knuckles, etc., depending on the silly rules of whatever jurisdiction I happened to be in.
    The "powers to be" recognize that the possibility of a gun failing to fire is greater than the possibility of the blade falling off the knife. Therefore, the knife is more dangerous.
    Both are extremes but we know how they try to think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Dr View Post
    The "powers to be" recognize that the possibility of a gun failing to fire is greater than the possibility of the blade falling off the knife. Therefore, the knife is more dangerous.
    Both are extremes but we know how they try to think.
    Very true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1Gunr View Post
    Maybe its time for a Concealed Deadly Weapons License and just lump knives, nun-chucks, throwing stars and what ever else is considered a deadly weapon.
    Yes, it might be time to do that... again.

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    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    or,,,

    just get rid of all references to cpls!
    and any other words that address any objects that may be defined as dangerous or weapons!
    replace all that crap with words that say,

    carrying any thing you want, any way you want, any where you want, any time you want,
    in defense of your self or any one else, is lawful.

    also make crime, CRIMINAL!

    only making this post to inflate my count, and see my total.
    Last edited by 1245A Defender; 12-15-2010 at 02:38 AM.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

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    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1245A Defender View Post
    just get rid of all references to cpls!
    and any other words that address any objects that may be defined as dangerous or weapons!
    replace all that crap with words that say,

    carrying any thing you want, any way you want, any where you want, any time you want,
    in defense of your self or any one else, is lawful.

    also make crime, CRIMINAL!

    only making this post to inflate my count, and see my total.
    Exactly!!!!

    It's not what you carry it is your actions that make you criminal.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Ever notice that all of these laws and bills regarding guns and other weapons are proposed by people who more than likely don't own any?!?
    Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world; it's the only thing that ever does.- Margaret Mead


    Those who will not fight for justice today will fight for their lives in the future,

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogodawgs View Post
    Bricks, sticks, fists, lawnmowers, Vulcan mind melds.....
    Don't forget the mind of an ignorant politician. That can be deadly too, taking into consideration the number of "victim zones" they seem to want to create.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    So if they remove the terms "sword", "dagger" and "dirk", does that mean it will no longer be unlawful to "furtively carry" one of those? Or will they now all be lumped under the "knife" definition?

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    So if they remove the terms "sword", "dagger" and "dirk", does that mean it will no longer be unlawful to "furtively carry" one of those? Or will they now all be lumped under the "knife" definition?
    Depends what they might put in the "definitions" section.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    So if they remove the terms "sword", "dagger" and "dirk", does that mean it will no longer be unlawful to "furtively carry" one of those? Or will they now all be lumped under the "knife" definition?
    Here's your knife back.

    Sword.

    Whatever.
    "If we were to ever consider citizenship as the least bit matter of merit instead of birthright, imagine who should be selected as deserved representation of our democracy: someone who would risk their daily livelihood to cast an individually statistically insignificant vote, or those who wrap themselves in the flag against slightest slights." - agenthex

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    Spoke to the legislative aide of Sherry Appleton and she told me she has been getting many calls, emails, etc... in regards to this bill. The majority of which are against. Hunters, fishermen, divers, etc...

    IMHO this aint going anywhere. Keep up the phone calls, emails and if this does get to committee storm the place like you guys did when the assault weapons ban bill came up, and make some friggin NOISE. This crap can be defeated, or even turned into something that's beneficial to all. In fact ask your reps to counter this bill with something that makes sense, like Preemption for Knives, or a Concealed Weapons Permit, instead of CPL's.

    Some of these legislative clowns have no idea, except that it feels good to them.

    PUSH BACK. GET THE WORD OUT.

    XD

    P.S Supposedly this bill is being requested by law enforcement. Too many people (Gangbangers) are concealing knives and the cops are scared!
    Last edited by XD45PlusP; 12-16-2010 at 12:51 AM. Reason: p.s

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XD45PlusP View Post

    P.S Supposedly this bill is being requested by law enforcement. Too many people (Gangbangers) are concealing knives and the cops are scared!
    Do you have a source for this? It doesn't surprise me but it would be good to know which cops are trying to trample on our freedom.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Email sent on my end.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XD45PlusP View Post
    ......In fact ask your reps to counter this bill with something that makes sense, like Preemption for Knives, or a Concealed Weapons Permit, instead of CPL's........

    Please, no!
    No "government permission slips" for knives!

    Preemption would be good though.
    A wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government.- Thomas Jefferson March 4 1801

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Do you have a source for this? It doesn't surprise me but it would be good to know which cops are trying to trample on our freedom.
    SVG,

    The source is Sherry Appletons legislative assistant/aide. When the legislature convenes on Jan 10th the bill will be updated with "By Request" like this

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summ...2009&bill=4220

    I'm pretty sure it's these guys > https://fortress.wa.gov/cjtc/www/

    and WSP

    There's no other sponsors besides Appleton. Which is a good sign, but others can be added later. Write her, call her, and especially talk to your reps.
    XD
    Last edited by XD45PlusP; 12-17-2010 at 04:03 AM.

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