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Thread: Lansing Library Board meeting tonight 5:30

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    Lansing Library Board meeting tonight 5:30

    Is there anyone available to attend this meeting? It was brought to my attention the board will be discussing the firearm policy/incident. I'd love to have some ears in the room so we can hear their line of thought.


    401 South Capitol Avenue, Lansing, MI 48933

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Is there anyone available to attend this meeting? It was brought to my attention the board will be discussing the firearm policy/incident. I'd love to have some ears in the room so we can hear their line of thought.

    401 South Capitol Avenue, Lansing, MI 48933
    I'll try to make it. I'll pack my XDm.

    ETA: I'm here, with my XDm and my very long coat that I'm still wearing.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Meeting started at 17:30. Adjourned at 17:45. No mention of OC or the recent encounter.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Sorry to have wasted your time. Thanks for going.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    Sorry to have wasted your time. Thanks for going.
    As I said on the phone. My house is 1 mile away from the meeting. It was no problem.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    The article seemed mostly accurate.

    The legal counsel can investigate all they want. According to the meeting last night CADL has only budgeted 28,000 for legal counsel. That's less than 200 hours of lawyer time. I hope he doesn't waste too much of their money to tell them something we already know...

    ETA: The article doesn't mention the shotgun was slung. One person I know that wasn't familiar with the incident, after reading the article, had visions of someone having shotgun in hand walking about. When he heard it was slung he changed his mode of thinking from terrorism to "just weird".

    The article does mention in the sub-headline it was "over his shoulder".
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Campaign Veteran Glock9mmOldStyle's Avatar
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    Question More info is needed in my opinion.

    Okay, we all should take a breath & think for a minute before we jump in here. I support the right to carry period! Now that being said if the person had a choice between carrying a pistol or a long gun in the Library, the choice that seems to meet our goals is a pistol. Some people simply cannot afford a pistol or cannot buy one due to age restrictions etc... We are not out to scare folks, but one cannot be held responsible for peoples fears/feelings either.

    In the laws eyes - carrying a long gun in public is as legal as carrying a kite down the street, we need to ease the public into that reality when ever possible. I'm not sure what the individual's motivation was in this case? Thus I will refrain from comment until more is known about the details involved.

    Kind regards - G9OS

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Sorry but I have to take this opportunity to throw a little crow.

    Shortly after the infamous "Ponderosa" incident; I had stated that it wasn't a good choice to carry a long gun or Mich pistol out in public...just yet.
    Our beginning ideals were baby steps and get the public used to seeing a holstered handgun first, then work on the long gun issue.
    I won't name names, nor cite posts but many on here "flamed" those of us who said this. Anyone familiar with the whole issue can look it up for themselves.
    Myself and others were chastised for being "safe" carriers and only supporting "some" of our 2A rights.
    Not long ago OCDO was also chastised for their position on the long gun issue and was forced into making it clear and change their posting rules.
    Another forum took some offense to the ruling and specifically made a long gun thread to post in.
    Now this same forum has publicly stated that they "DO NOT" agree with long gun carry "in the city" for self defense.
    Has this decision been made because:

    A: They realize that maybe those of us were right in the fact that it wasn't the right time to attempt long gun carry...just yet.

    B: Their "contempt and dislike" for the person involved in the incident prompted some sort of "saving face", since the person is a member of said forum?

    C: BOTH of the above

    Myself I pick C.

    This is not directed towards the person involved in the incident. I happen to like the guy and feel he is a good person and has a lot to contribute.

    My personal opinion as stated many times before;
    ANYONE carrying a long gun or Mich pistol for daily self defense is only looking for the attention it draws to them. Collateral damage is an extreme possibility should you need to use such a firearm for self defense.
    I used the comparison of squirrel hunting with a 300 win mag;
    Is it legal...YES
    Is it the wise/right tool for the job...NO
    I support your right to do so; but I also support the saying...you can't fix stupid.

    Okay, rant off; so flame away. I said what I wanted to and don't really care about any replies.

    This is just food for thought on how people/politics swing with the "perceived opinion" of others.........

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    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    Has this decision been made because:

    A: They realize that maybe those of us were right in the fact that it wasn't the right time to attempt long gun carry...just yet.

    B: Their "contempt and dislike" for the person involved in the incident prompted some sort of "saving face", since the person is a member of said forum?

    C: BOTH of the above

    Myself I pick C.
    you forgot D: Leadership Change.
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

    I am not a lawyer (merely an omnipotent member of a continuum). The contents of this post are not a substitute for sound legal advice from a licensed attorney in your jurisdiction.

    Comments and views stated in my post are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of Michigan Open Carry, Inc. unless stated otherwise in the post.

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    I wish this joker would just move out of state, he does more to bring negative attention to the cause than anyone i've ever seen
    Last edited by detroit_fan; 12-16-2010 at 12:43 PM.

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    Regular Member WARCHILD's Avatar
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    Who ME...

    Just curious...

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    I wish this joker would just move out of state, he does more to bring negative attention to the cause than anyone i've ever seen
    Is that not the same that eveyone thought about oc before it became viewed so openly today before they became imformed and adjusted to it?

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    Regular Member detroit_fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emt232004 View Post
    Is that not the same that eveyone thought about oc before it became viewed so openly today before they became imformed and adjusted to it?
    no it's not, and if you think that firing a shotgun in the public library is a good idea then I don't know what to say, and if it's not a good idea to fire it in there why the hell would you take it in there in the first place? I'm not anti-long gun OC, it has it's place(primarily outdoors), but this was not the place. the bigger issue is that it's the same person who keeps doing this crap to try and bring negative attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by detroit_fan View Post
    no it's not, and if you think that firing a shotgun in the public library is a good idea then I don't know what to say, and if it's not a good idea to fire it in there why the hell would you take it in there in the first place? I'm not anti-long gun OC, it has it's place(primarily outdoors), but this was not the place. the bigger issue is that it's the same person who keeps doing this crap to try and bring negative attention.
    So if you are wakling down a public street exercising your right to oc a long gun and you pass by and stop in a public library why should you have to disarm? Who eversaid anything about firing it in the library but it would be the same reason as carrying a pistol I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have access to it.

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    I think the point Detroit_fan raises is legitimate. We carry for personal protection and the possible protection of others if need be. We carry full well knowing there is a chance we will need to use our firearms. If you aren't prepared to use it, then why carry it. Would anyone feel confident shooting a shotgun with 00 buck(insert round of choice) in a close quarters situation(library or otherwise) and not inflicting possible mass collateral damage? Putting a defensive round on target is paramount, especially in an urban environment.
    Last edited by scot623; 12-17-2010 at 04:14 PM.

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    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    In my opinion,carrying a rifle or shotgun slung over your shoulder to a public library is just asking for negative attention. The guns in public buildings issue has been a hot topic in the news this past year.A (few) cities or townships are asking law makers in Lansing for legislation to put the end to it. The more negative publicity they have to fuel their arguments,the worse off the open or concealed carriers chances to carry in these places will be.

    There are more sheeple out in the public,then there is gun toteing freedom loving 2nd amenment supporters. If we portray ourselves in a positive light as everyday people just going about our business,the people sitting on the fence about the issue might just see the light.
    But if a few over the top in your face kind of open carriers ,go around scaring the sh!t out of the public, looking like they are about to go postal with the scary carry long gun.
    then the open carry movement just took two steps backwards.
    Just my thoughts on the matter, Dennis
    Last edited by DetroitBiker; 12-17-2010 at 08:09 PM. Reason: Edited to make Brian Happy :)

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    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WARCHILD View Post
    Sorry but I have to take this opportunity to throw a little crow.

    Shortly after the infamous "Ponderosa" incident; I had stated that it wasn't a good choice to carry a long gun or Mich pistol out in public...just yet.
    Our beginning ideals were baby steps and get the public used to seeing a holstered handgun first, then work on the long gun issue.
    I won't name names, nor cite posts but many on here "flamed" those of us who said this. Anyone familiar with the whole issue can look it up for themselves.
    Myself and others were chastised for being "safe" carriers and only supporting "some" of our 2A rights.
    Not long ago OCDO was also chastised for their position on the long gun issue and was forced into making it clear and change their posting rules.
    Another forum took some offense to the ruling and specifically made a long gun thread to post in.
    Now this same forum has publicly stated that they "DO NOT" agree with long gun carry "in the city" for self defense.
    Has this decision been made because:

    A: They realize that maybe those of us were right in the fact that it wasn't the right time to attempt long gun carry...just yet.

    B: Their "contempt and dislike" for the person involved in the incident prompted some sort of "saving face", since the person is a member of said forum?

    C: BOTH of the above

    Myself I pick C.

    This is not directed towards the person involved in the incident. I happen to like the guy and feel he is a good person and has a lot to contribute.

    My personal opinion as stated many times before;
    ANYONE carrying a long gun or Mich pistol for daily self defense is only looking for the attention it draws to them. Collateral damage is an extreme possibility should you need to use such a firearm for self defense.
    I used the comparison of squirrel hunting with a 300 win mag;
    Is it legal...YES
    Is it the wise/right tool for the job...NO
    I support your right to do so; but I also support the saying...you can't fix stupid.

    Okay, rant off; so flame away. I said what I wanted to and don't really care about any replies.

    This is just food for thought on how people/politics swing with the "perceived opinion" of others.........
    I like your post, well thought out and probably needed to be said.

  19. #19
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scot623 View Post
    I think the point Detroit_fan raises is legitimate. We carry for personal protection and the possible protection of others if need be. We carry full well knowing there is a chance we will need to use our firearms. If you aren't prepared to use it, then why carry it. Would anyone feel confident shooting a shotgun with 00 buck(insert round of choice) in a close quarters situation(library or otherwise) and not inflicting possible mass collateral damage? Putting a defensive round on target is paramount, especially in an urban environment.
    Slugs?
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    The guns in public buildings issue has been a hot topic in the news this past year.Many cities or townships are asking law makers in Lansing for legislation to put the end to it. The more negative publicity they have to fuel their arguments,the worse off the open or concealed carriers chances to carry in these places will be.
    Plese Cite all of these guns in public building issues you speak of.

    I'm not sure I believe that MANY cities are asking law makers anything. My guess is that a couple of the thousands of cities may have inquired abut the whole OC issues, but not many.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  21. #21
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Plese Cite all of these guns in public building issues you speak of.

    I'm not sure I believe that MANY cities are asking law makers anything. My guess is that a couple of the thousands of cities may have inquired abut the whole OC issues, but not many.
    To date, I know that Royal Oak and Berkley have passed resolutions asking the MI Legislature for the ability to limit firearm carry/possession in Public Buildings and/or Public Festivals. It appears that Huntington Woods is asking for the same here this next week.

    ETA - These were not inquiries, these were actual requests to change the law from city approved resolutions.
    Last edited by PDinDetroit; 12-17-2010 at 06:09 PM.

  22. #22
    Regular Member DetroitBiker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    Plese Cite all of these guns in public building issues you speak of.

    I'm not sure I believe that MANY cities are asking law makers anything. My guess is that a couple of the thousands of cities may have inquired abut the whole OC issues, but not many.
    You can read all about it in my book that im in the prosses of writing . Its titled,How we lost our right to Open Carry in Michigan. Its a nice little illustrated book with pictures of Dumbazz`s walking around showing off there longarms/ruger1022`s,with the attitude of "hey look at me".

    While responsible open carriers tried to stear these overzealous young lads in the right dirrection, They were told that it was there rights and they were gonna flaunt them.


  23. #23
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitBiker View Post
    You can read all about it in my book that im in the prosses of writing . Its titled,How we lost our right to Open Carry in Michigan. Its a nice little illustrated book with pictures of Dumbazz`s walking around showing off there longarms/ruger1022`s,with the attitude of "hey look at me".

    While responsible open carriers tried to stear these overzealous young lads in the right dirrection, They were told that it was there rights and they were gonna flaunt them.

    Can't wait to read it, just hope you have a good editor.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    To date, I know that Royal Oak and Berkley have passed resolutions asking the MI Legislature for the ability to limit firearm carry/possession in Public Buildings and/or Public Festivals. It appears that Huntington Woods is asking for the same here this next week.

    ETA - These were not inquiries, these were actual requests to change the law from city approved resolutions.
    A fart in a hurricane. Still, two is far from many, was my point. We have heard that they would outlaw OC and CC for years now because of OC. While it could happen I doubt it will, especially with Heller and McDonald behind us. Be vigilant yes, but lets not use hyperbole as our opponents do.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  25. #25
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    A fart in a hurricane. Still, two is far from many, was my point. We have heard that they would outlaw OC and CC for years now because of OC. While it could happen I doubt it will, especially with Heller and McDonald behind us. Be vigilant yes, but lets not use hyperbole as our opponents do.
    A Royal Oak City Commissioner referred to their 2 Resolutions as "spitting into the wind"...

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