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OC: "Dumbest thing I could do"
- Thread starter OCglock1988
- Start date
M
McX
Guest
i always wondered, maybe the brethren can answer this; if someone makes a clear grab for your gun, which to me shows intent to harm you or others, can you use lethal force to stop the grab?
littlewolf
Regular Member
Neat ain't it ,your talking to her and 3 or 4 people are looking at you like your stupid or lost in your own mind.
Sonora Rebel
Regular Member
Correct. Many such are true statists who cannot concieve of carrying a firearm w/o a 'permit'. Such permit is their cash cow... creating a symbionic relationship. 'Been openly heeled here in AZ/NM for the past 100 years 'n prior w/o permits. ya might mention that to 'em.
phred
Regular Member
I have four questions for you.
1. Are you innocent of instigation ("provocation") ?
2. Are you in reasonable fear of danger of death or great bodily harm?
3. Are sure that no lesser force will do?
4. Are you not able to retreat (withdraw)?
Me too, (I agree with Protias.)
"totality of circumstances"?
M
McX
Guest
shut up phred, i hate it when your smarter than me! totality of circumstances!- were gonna get alot of mileage out of that one. wonder if chief knobby knows were laughing at him?
Krusty
Regular Member
M
McX
Guest
i thank you guys for your input on this subject. the point i am trying to understand fully; if an individual goes for your gun, to me that he has proven his intent to cause you, or others serious harm. so it would warrant a strong defensive response, people my age are just not in the position to duke it out, and may not get the time to do much of anything else other than shoot. please continue the discussion, and sharing your thoughts on this.
oak1971
Regular Member
To me, it would be a threat. Threats need to be stopped.
"He went for my gun, I feared for my life and was forced to defend myself."
"He went for my gun, I feared for my life and was forced to defend myself."
ed
Founder's Club Member - Moderator
That is a common misnomer. One does not have to be in fear for their life in order to justifiably defend yourself.
phred
Regular Member
Sorry McX,
The chief talks about "totality of circumstances" concerning the carriers, but he should be more concerned about the "totality of consequences" of HIS words and actions.
With regards to your original question, if and when you obtained the upper hand after an attack, and the attack did not persist, you could not use your gun on an unarmed (under-advantaged) person. That is why I posted the 4 questions. I know there are a lot of "what ifs" involved. Just MHO
M
McX
Guest
you and i both know your right Phred- dead if you dont/ damned if you do!
MKEgal
Regular Member
phred said:
If someone's trying to take my gun...
1) almost certainly; can't think of a situation where the answer would be 'yes'
2) ABSOLUTELY - if he a) gets the gun, b) has another weapon, or c) is physically superior
3) if neither of #2 b&c apply, I'll try kicking & such first, break his nose, elbow or knee
4) depends on situation
Another thing to consider is that if the gun is in the holster, neither of you can use it.
Once it's drawn, I'd answer #3 'yes'.
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RR_Broccoli
Regular Member
It's not a misnomer, it's pretty good advice to articulate your state of mind without saying something they can use against you as leverage later. The DA is out to make arrests and convictions. He does not give a hair on a rat's tail whether or not those arrests and convictions are just or not. (That's for juries to decide.)
Say it ONCE, then ask if you are under arrest, then ask for your lawyer. Wait until you have told your lawyer what happened before saying anything else. It might seem like the "right" thing to do to justify your actions, but you do NOT owe the police any justification, and they won't listen to it before arresting you anyway.
This is one of those cases where you have to put on an adversarial and defensive posture right away or you risk huge additional consequences.
Once we get CC and OC popularized, maybe the castle doctrine laws aught to be the next target.
Spartacus
Banned
Everything you say is true and I have experienced much of it. I have personally blabbed my way into citations in the past where if I would have just kept my mouth shut I would have been able to walk away.
Heres a good example:
A couple years back I was riding my bike fast and furious and some lady got offended. About an hour after getting home I got a phone call from a cop asking if I had been out riding and where and I began to answer his questions as truthfully as possible. He said thank you and hung up and 20 minutes later there was a cop at my door with a ticket for reckless driving or some such BS.
From the Maas:
"The formula that justifies exerting lethal force: Immediate, Otherwise Unavoidable Danger of Death or Grave Bodily Harm to the Innocent.
But it doesn't stop there. Nothing complicated ever stops with a simple formula. The definitions continue.
Both training and considerable experience in court in shooting cases has taught me that the formula for justifiable homicide is determined by three criteria. They are Ability, Opportunity, and Jeopardy."
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Expla..."justifiable+homicide."+(Massad...-a011199334
M
McX
Guest
truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
to all my friends, this song is for you; round here we all look the same, round here we all sacrifice like friends.
http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=SAe3sCIakXo&feature=related
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HandyHamlet
Regular Member
Or you could have just not been riding like a ****head... making us all look bad and have to suffer through lame ass excuses.
..........---Moderator Edited--
Let's remember this is a publicly viewed forum.
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