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Thread: One of our strongest allies could be...

  1. #1
    Regular Member JerryD's Avatar
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    One of our strongest allies could be...

    The Wisconsin Wildlife Federation that represents sportsmen and women statewide on a variety of issues. What better group to have fighting along side of us for the repeal of car carry prohibition and the rest of the laws we would like to see repealed.

    Wisconsin Bear hunters, Wisconsin trappers Association and others where their members have to load and unload their weapons everytime they get in and out of a vehicle would make great allies and we would also benefit from their membership numbers. Both of the mentioned org.'s have several 1000 of members each.
    Last edited by JerryD; 12-16-2010 at 03:13 PM.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good idea to me. I wonder if Nik has tried to get a hold of him? One of the officers of WCI should give their officers a call and see what's up.
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    Loading and unloading each time you enter and leave a vehicle is dangerous

    Quote Originally Posted by JerryD View Post
    The Wisconsin Wildlife Federation that represents sportsmen and women statewide on a variety of issues. What better group to have fighting along side of us for the repeal of car carry prohibition and the rest of the laws we would like to see repealed.

    Wisconsin Bear hunters, Wisconsin trappers Association and others where their members have to load and unload their weapons everytime they get in and out of a vehicle would make great allies and we would also benefit from their membership numbers. Both of the mentioned org.'s have several 1000 of members each.
    The loaded fireams in the vehicle law was never really intended as a safety measure. Its purpose was to make Wisconsin Conservation Wardens job easier when prosecuting people for jacklighting deer, and to make road hunting harder. It actually decreases safety because each time you load and unload a firearm, there is a small chance for an accidental discharge.

    I contend that the law actually makes hunting in Wisconsin less safe. Compare Wisconsin hunting accident rates to those of Arizona, where no such law exists. While not scientific, between 1999 to 2002, Arizona had 2 fatal firearms accidents, while Wisconsin had 16. There are many different factors involved, but it is clear that a law that requires you to keep your firearm unloaded and cased in a vehicle does not make you safer.

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Sounds like a great idea.
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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    It actually decreases safety because each time you load and unload a firearm, there is a small chance for an accidental discharge.
    If you understand the operation of your firearm and and conscientiously follow the rules of safe gun handling and don't carry a defective gun, the chances are zero. That said, there may be a small percentage of people who are not conscientious or who lack adequate firearms proficiency; just as we see a much greater percentage of drivers who are neither conscientious nor proficient while driving a vehicle. It's a simple fact of life that there are risks in everything we do.

    I object to the load/unload scenario less on grounds of safety and much more on the grounds of public perception of seeing a person exit a vehicle and immediately loading a firearm. Public perception is strangely and strongly based on countless Hollywood depictions that indicate something bad is about to happen when a person is shown loading a gun.

    From a safety angle, the greatest decrease in safety is due to the fact that in Wisconsin one cannot lawfully have a loaded gun inside a vehicle, increasing the time it takes to be ready by several seconds when perhaps the difference between life and death can be measured in fractions of a second.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    If someone wanted to carry their 1911 in condition 2 (don't ask me, just putting it out there), then there is a definite benifit to safety if it doesn't need to be unloaded and reloaded again and again. Same would go for a single/double action without a decocker. It's gonna slip on somebody some day.

    My uncles dad put a hole through the roof of his shed while decocking a winchester 30-30 one day while we were hunting. All the rules of firearms safety were being followed so everything was OK.
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    Wisconsin Carry, Inc. Shotgun's Avatar
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    Condition 2 for a 1911 is a loaded chamber with the hammer down. How would that negate the load and unload requirement? Not to mention a the process of lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber is risky, so is dropping the gun in that condition.
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    Condition 2 for a 1911 is a loaded chamber with the hammer down. How would that negate the load and unload requirement? Not to mention a the process of lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber is risky, so is dropping the gun in that condition.
    I think you missed my point. Yes it's more unsafe to load and unload if you wanted to carry a 1911 in condition 2 because you would need to lower the hammer, with the safeties disengaged. So, in that case, there is a safety issue with the state law.

    I was replying to the post in which you said the chances are zero if your criteria were met.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 12-17-2010 at 01:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    I think you missed my point. Yes it's more unsafe to load and unload if you wanted to carry a 1911 in condition 2 because you would need to lower the hammer, with the safeties disengaged. So, in that case, there is a safety issue with the state law.

    I was replying to the post in which you said the chances are zero if your criteria were met.
    You're right, I should have read more carefully. Let's hope nobody would WANT to carry in Condition Two, too!
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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shotgun View Post
    You're right, I should have read more carefully. Let's hope nobody would WANT to carry in Condition Two, too!
    +1
    You and i know it's silly; however, for people without as much training with pistols and who are used to hunting guns (especially with the amount of lever action 30-30's in this state) it may be their first instinct if they decide to get a 1911 style handgun.
    Last edited by Brass Magnet; 12-17-2010 at 01:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    +1
    You and i know it's silly; however, for people without as much training with pistols and who are used to hunting guns (especially with the amount of lever action 30-30's in this state) it may be their first instinct if they decide to get a 1911 style handgun.

    Now that is a scary thought.

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    It is much safer to keep a handgun holstered than it is to be loading and unloading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    I think you missed my point. Yes it's more unsafe to load and unload if you wanted to carry a 1911 in condition 2 because you would need to lower the hammer, with the safeties disengaged. So, in that case, there is a safety issue with the state law.

    I was replying to the post in which you said the chances are zero if your criteria were met.
    It is much safer to keep the handgun holstered than constantly loading and unloading it each time you get in or out of a vehicle. While you will not hurt someone if you follow all the rules diligently, the existance of random elements in nature assure the at some point, something will happen which may prevent you from following exact procedure. The most common thing to happen is that something distracts the person at a crutial time.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccwinstructor View Post
    It is much safer to keep the handgun holstered than constantly loading and unloading it each time you get in or out of a vehicle. While you will not hurt someone if you follow all the rules diligently, the existance of random elements in nature assure the at some point, something will happen which may prevent you from following exact procedure. The most common thing to happen is that something distracts the person at a crutial time.
    Yes, but why did you quote me? I agree.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member JerryD's Avatar
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    this thread definitely went way off course.
    I had to change my signature because you know who got upset about it.

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    Your information was relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Yes, but why did you quote me? I agree.
    I was simply expanding on it. I don't think we need to disagree to quote one another.

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    Regular Member johnny amish's Avatar
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    To get back on topic here, I think anybody who is willing to help get constitutional carry in this state is a friend of mine.
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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny amish View Post
    To get back on topic here, I think anybody who is willing to help get constitutional carry in this state is a friend of mine.
    I hope the hell ....... out of the fray. Doing this kind of stuff doesn't win you influence with influenitial people that are on your side.

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    Last edited by Flipper; 12-18-2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: To avoid speaking negatively about other firearm rights organizations
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