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Laws On Discharging A Firearm On Someone?

B

bgreene89

Guest
Okay I got confused reading a thread up here so now I got some questions? I took Concealed Weapons Course Last year but I forgot some laws. Can you shoot someone though a door or window if they are breaking and entering? After they have entered the are room where you are then they have to cause bodily harm to you correct? Can you shoot someone if they are harming another person but not you? And Do you Have To pronounce you have a gun? And do you have to try to flee from the scene?

Someone just list the laws for me to refresh my memory

Also if someone is robbing a store and you happen to be there and they are beening held at gunpoint can you discharge your firearm on the gunman?




Blake
 

jlamb

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Okay I got confused reading a thread up here so now I got some questions? I took Concealed Weapons Course Last year but I forgot some laws. Can you shoot someone though a door or window if they are breaking and entering? After they have entered the are room where you are then they have to cause bodily harm to you correct?

NC doesn't have a Castle Doctrine on the books yet. This is what's available right now:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-51.1.html

GRNC will be working on getting a Castle Doctrine passed during the next legislative session.

Can you shoot someone if they are harming another person but not you?

If you did not witness the altercation from the get-go, it is recommended to not get involved other than calling 911 and being a good witness. You can protect others using deadly force as long as the person you're protecting has the same right to deadly force. You have to be certain the person you want to render assistance was not the aggressor to begin with, and is now getting their butt whipped by the victim.

And Do you Have To pronounce you have a gun?

No. More importantly, would you want to give an assailant a warning which may give them an opportunity to shoot you before you shoot them?

And do you have to try to flee from the scene?

I'm trying to find the statute on this, but yes, you have a duty to retreat when the situation does not apply to GS 14‑51.1, and you're able to retreat safely.

Someone just list the laws for me to refresh my memory

Additional information available here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdf

Also if someone is robbing a store and you happen to be there and they are beening held at gunpoint can you discharge your firearm on the gunman?

Blake

The threat of serious bodily harm or death has to be present. And you still have the duty to retreat if you can safely.

IANAL
 
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sultan62

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No offense, but these are really questions you should know the answer to, especially if you've taken the CHP course and intend to carry. You've already been told the answers to these questions once, and the knowledge didn't stick. I'm not going to list the answers here, as I don't think it will help you in the long run. With some internet research, specifically reading NC statutes and the AG release, you should easily find the answers to your questions.

Please don't take this as an insult or me trying to be an ass; I just really think you need to form a firm grasp on the situations when deadly force is appropriate, and I don't think you can get that from such a simple question and answer situation if you didn't get it from your CHP course.
 

jlamb

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Alright, maybe I did that for nothing. :banghead: Not that it took much effort, but please don't let it go to waste.
 

JoeSparky

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The short and dirty answer is that generally you may elect to use force that is potentially lethal in a situation where you are actually facing what you believe AND CAN PROVE a potentially lethal force against YOU.

Some states allow you to intervene for the benefit of someone whom you are witnessing a potentially lethal use of force against them. Some states may restrict this to a family member or relative, others expand it to anyone in your presence.

Also beware, some states require the you first retreat BEFORE you use or threaten to use potentially lethal force.

Disclaimers: I am not a resident of YOUR state. I am not an attorney, and this has not been legal advise. The above information is worth exactly what you have paid for it.... NOTHING! Your mileage may vary!
 

sultan62

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Clayton, NC
There is no duty to retreat in NC, provided it is an altercation you did not start nor unjustifiably escalate.
 

chiefjason

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There is no duty to retreat in NC, provided it is an altercation you did not start nor unjustifiably escalate.

Since I was looking for this and did not find it the other day. Do you have a site for it? In your home or on your property there is no duty to retreat. That's in the use of force on an intruder statute.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_14/GS_14-51.1.html

But NC definitely does not have a stand your ground law. You don't have to retreat from an immediate threat to life, great bodily harm, or sexual assault. But you can't stand your ground and have it escalate into a deadly force situation even if you did not start it. You have to attempt to retreat. Or I am missing something here?
 

sultan62

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Since I was looking for this and did not find it the other day. Do you have a site for it? In your home or on your property there is no duty to retreat. That's in the use of force on an intruder statute.

If there is a cite regarding duty to retreat, it would be required that it be specifically to retreat. If it is not enumerated, the duty isn't there.

But you can't stand your ground and have it escalate into a deadly force situation even if you did not start it. You have to attempt to retreat. Or I am missing something here?

Also, do you have a cite for this?
 
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cricketdad

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billv

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Houston now, Asheville soon
NC doesn't have a Castle Doctrine on the books yet. This is what's available right now:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-51.1.html

GRNC will be working on getting a Castle Doctrine passed during the next legislative session.


What you have cited is the NC Castle Doctrine. What GRNC will be doing is making it stronger. One point will be protection from civil litigation.

What is different between the NC law (14-51.1 above) and "The Castle Doctrine"? What is GRNC trying to change and add to it to make is stronger?
 
B

bgreene89

Guest
Dont take this TheWrong Way Please Really!

No offense, but these are really questions you should know the answer to, especially if you've taken the CHP course and intend to carry. You've already been told the answers to these questions once, and the knowledge didn't stick. I'm not going to list the answers here, as I don't think it will help you in the long run. With some internet research, specifically reading NC statutes and the AG release, you should easily find the answers to your questions.

Please don't take this as an insult or me trying to be an ass; I just really think you need to form a firm grasp on the situations when deadly force is appropriate, and I don't think you can get that from such a simple question and answer situation if you didn't get it from your CHP course.

Don't take this the wrong way I am not trying to be rude nothing. I do remember alot from concealed handgun class, but I also want to make double sure about the laws before I shoot someone no matter what the situation is! Id rather someone shoot me, and then I shoot back before I get sent to prison. And I found my book he gave us in the class to take home so now I know the laws.


Thanks for the information everyone, yall are a real help and very friendly most friendlest forum yet I have found!
 

hotrod08

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Don't take this the wrong way I am not trying to be rude nothing. I do remember alot from concealed handgun class, but I also want to make double sure about the laws before I shoot someone no matter what the situation is! Id rather someone shoot me, and then I shoot back before I get sent to prison. And I found my book he gave us in the class to take home so now I know the laws.


Thanks for the information everyone, yall are a real help and very friendly most friendlest forum yet I have found!


http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/

The link above doesn't have much to do with firearms, But There is some GREAT info, Including but not limited too, ways to prevent having to use deadly force (and what to expect IF you have to use your weapon. )


http://www.conflictcommunications.com/
 
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cricketdad

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What is different between the NC law (14-51.1 above) and "The Castle Doctrine"? What is GRNC trying to change and add to it to make is stronger?

We will meet next month and write a bill. The details of the bill won't be announced to the public until it is introduced. That should happen January 26th if I am remembering correctly.
 

chiefjason

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Also, do you have a cite for this?

Concealed Handgun Training Manual, NC Justice Academy.

"(2) Duty To Retreat Before Using Deadly Force Unless and exception such as those listed below applies, a citizen must retreat before using deadly force if retreat is possible.
Exception
A. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the assault threatens imminent death or great bodily harm - a murderous or felonious assault or sexual assault.
Exception
B. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the victim is on his or her own premises, or on his or her business premises, or is at home. "

Oddly enough, the only place I can find this on the net is on a local news website.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/13653578/detail.html


I have not seen this spelled out in the General Statutes. But it appears to be the common way duty to retreat is interpreted by LEO's. If you can leave, you need to leave.

hotrod, my intent with that statute is that it's the only place I can find where the duty to retreat is not applicable. In your home or on your property.
 

sultan62

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I'd like to see a NCGS for that.

Even if it's present somewhere, it's completely redundant. You can only use deadly force if one of the exceptions listed above for duty to retreat is true anyway.
 

hotrod08

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Concealed Handgun Training Manual, NC Justice Academy.

"(2) Duty To Retreat Before Using Deadly Force Unless and exception such as those listed below applies, a citizen must retreat before using deadly force if retreat is possible.
Exception
A. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the assault threatens imminent death or great bodily harm - a murderous or felonious assault or sexual assault.
Exception
B. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the victim is on his or her own premises, or on his or her business premises, or is at home. "

Oddly enough, the only place I can find this on the net is on a local news website.

http://www.wsoctv.com/news/13653578/detail.html


I have not seen this spelled out in the General Statutes. But it appears to be the common way duty to retreat is interpreted by LEO's. If you can leave, you need to leave.

hotrod, my intent with that statute is that it's the only place I can find where the duty to retreat is not applicable. In your home or on your property.

Right, I was seconding what you said, Because of what sultan62 said about NC not having a duty to retreat (Which is true in your own home ETC)But outside the home I haven't found anything either.
Unless me and you both are missing something. LOL

I apologize If I came off as an A hole
 
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B

bgreene89

Guest
Deadly Foce Law!

A Citizen is legally justfied in using deadly force against another if and ONLY if:

a) The citizen actually believes deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault and

b) The facts and circumstances prompting that belief would cause a person of ordinary firmness to believe deadly force was necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, and

c) The citizen using deadly force was not an instigator or aggressor who voluntarily provoked, entered, or continued the conflict leading to deadly force, and

d) Force used was not excessive - greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.

2) Duty To Retreat USING deadly force

Unless an exception such as those listed below applies, a citizen must retreat before using deadly force if retreat is possible.

Exception A. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the assault threatens imminent death or great bodily harm-a murderous or felonious assault or sexual assault.

Exception B. There is no duty to retreat before using deadly force if the victim is on his or her own premises, or on his or her business premises, or is at home.

4) Deadly Force in DEFENSE of others

A citizen may intervene and use deadly force in defense of another person when, under the facts and circumstances, it reasonably appeared necessary to save the other person from an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault but only to the extent the other person was entitled to use deadly force in self defense. Excessive force in defense of others is not allowed, and neither the intervener nor the person threatened can be an instigator voluntarily provoking the conflict for deadly force to be used. If you are not sure of the circumstances that initiated the action, would it not be more prudent to contact law enforcement agency or attempt to assist using less lethal means rather than immediately imposing the threat of deadly force.

Deadly force may NOT be used:

a) To stop a Simple assault

b) Because of the use of violent language

c) Because you are a victim of past violence and fear violence

d) Because a trespasser refuses to leave

e) To arrest a criminal or prevent a criminal's escape

Use Of Force to Protect Property

a) The law does not permit the use of deadly force solely to protect property, or to prevent theft, or to regain stolen property. An Owner can defend his or her property using reasonable and necessary force but not deadly force. A different rule applies if at the same time life is imminently threatened.



All that came from my Concealed Handgun Class Book.
So for those of you that are unsure about the laws there they are.



Blake
 

knight0334

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NC doesn't have a Castle Doctrine on the books yet. This is what's available right now:

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/html/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-51.1.html

GRNC will be working on getting a Castle Doctrine passed during the next legislative session.



If you did not witness the altercation from the get-go, it is recommended to not get involved other than calling 911 and being a good witness. You can protect others using deadly force as long as the person you're protecting has the same right to deadly force. You have to be certain the person you want to render assistance was not the aggressor to begin with, and is now getting their butt whipped by the victim.



No. More importantly, would you want to give an assailant a warning which may give them an opportunity to shoot you before you shoot them?



I'm trying to find the statute on this, but yes, you have a duty to retreat when the situation does not apply to GS 14‑51.1, and you're able to retreat safely.



Additional information available here: http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/northcarolina.pdf



The threat of serious bodily harm or death has to be present. And you still have the duty to retreat if you can safely.

IANAL

From NC's law, that is in deed Castle Doctrine. You can use deadly force to protect your home from unlawful entry.

§ 14‑51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.

(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force, against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or residence.

(b) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence does not have a duty to retreat from an intruder in the circumstances described in this section.

(c) This section is not intended to repeal, expand, or limit any other defense that may exist under the common law. (1993 (Reg. Sess., 1994), c. 673, s. 1.)
 

sultan62

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I'm still waiting to see the law, as opposed to something in the CHP class book. Sorry guys-that ain't law.
 
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