Laws On Discharging A Firearm On Someone?

knight0334 said:

From NC's law, that is in deed Castle Doctrine. You can use deadly force to protect your home from unlawful entry.

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But by the letter of the law your chance to use deadly force ends once they gain entry. Unless they meet the criteria for deadly force again. That's what everyone wants a real CD for. So that there is no question that it's justified and for the the Civil immunity. FWIW, I agree with what you are getting at. And I have yet to see a DA in NC press the issue. But I would rather they did not have the choice to press the issue either.

sultan62 said:

I'm still waiting to see the law, as opposed to something in the CHP class book. Sorry guys-that ain't law.

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I've tried to find it. As far as I can tell, it's the Justice Academies interpretation of some law. While it might not be law, as in a GS statute, it still needs to be considered in this type of debate. Law or not, if it's a generally accepted interpretation it could cause some serious issues. And it's an interpretation that's been run through the AG's office as well.

Hotrod, I'm thicker skinned than that. No worries.

Hotrod, I'm thicker skinned than that. No worries.

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Something I did find a little interesting.

Going back to the same statue from http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-51.1.pdf


§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any
degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force,
against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the
intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or
inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the
occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or
residence.



SUBCHAPTER IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE HABITATION AND OTHER
BUILDINGS.
Article 14.
Burglary and Other Housebreakings.
§ 14-51. First and second degree burglary.
There shall be two degrees in the crime of burglary as defined at the common law. If the
crime be committed in a dwelling house, or in a room used as a sleeping apartment in any
building, and any person is in the actual occupation of any part of said dwelling house or
sleeping apartment at the time of the commission of such crime, it shall be burglary in the first
degree. If such crime be committed in a dwelling house or sleeping apartment not actually
occupied by anyone at the time of the commission of the crime, or if it be committed in any
house within the curtilage of a dwelling house or in any building not a dwelling house, but in
which is a room used as a sleeping apartment and not actually occupied as such at the time of the
commission of the crime, it shall be burglary in the second degree. For the purposes of defining
the crime of burglary, larceny shall be deemed a felony without regard to the value of the
property in question. (1889, c. 434, s. 1; Rev., s. 3331; C.S., s. 4232; 1969, c. 543, s.

So If I am reading the bold section correct, If you break in to a house in the context shown in GS § 14-51
and commit larceny (Larceny defined below with link) without regard to the amount of the property its a felony.
So If I break in to your home in the context shown above, And I make it too your counter and I take some of your Tylenol I have committed a felony.

IANAL

IANAL


http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=1105
larceny
n. the crime of taking the goods of another person without permission (usually secretly), with the intent of keeping them. It is one form of theft. Some states differentiate between grand larceny and petty larceny based on the value of the stolen goods. Grand larceny is a felony with a state prison sentence as a punishment and petty larceny is usually limited to county jail time.
See also: grand larceny petty larceny theft

Hotrod, I'm thicker skinned than that. No worries.

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Something I did find a little interesting.

Going back to the same statue from http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-51.1.pdf


§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any
degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force,
against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the
intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or
inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the
occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or
residence.



SUBCHAPTER IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE HABITATION AND OTHER
BUILDINGS.
Article 14.
Burglary and Other Housebreakings.
§ 14-51. First and second degree burglary.
There shall be two degrees in the crime of burglary as defined at the common law. If the
crime be committed in a dwelling house, or in a room used as a sleeping apartment in any
building, and any person is in the actual occupation of any part of said dwelling house or
sleeping apartment at the time of the commission of such crime, it shall be burglary in the first
degree. If such crime be committed in a dwelling house or sleeping apartment not actually
occupied by anyone at the time of the commission of the crime, or if it be committed in any
house within the curtilage of a dwelling house or in any building not a dwelling house, but in
which is a room used as a sleeping apartment and not actually occupied as such at the time of the
commission of the crime, it shall be burglary in the second degree. For the purposes of defining
the crime of burglary, larceny shall be deemed a felony without regard to the value of the
property in question. (1889, c. 434, s. 1; Rev., s. 3331; C.S., s. 4232; 1969, c. 543, s.

So If I am reading the bold section correct, If you break in to a house in the context shown in GS § 14-51
and commit larceny (Larceny defined below with link) without regard to the amount of the property its a felony.
So If I break in to your home in the context shown above, And I make it too your counter and I take some of your Tylenol I have committed a felony.

AGAIN

IANAL

IANAL



I apologize if my grammar is off a bit.

From What I got taught in Concealed Handgun Class, To clear Up Some Confusion...

What my instructor told us if an intruder is in the process of breaking and entering and you believe he or she is going to cause great bodily harm, serious bodily injury ,sexualy assault, or cause an imminent threat of death to you, in this circumstance you can use deadly force. But before the intruder comes through the threshold wether that be a window or a door and it does not have to be locked, because I remember asking this question. Once the intruder comes through the threshold you cannot use deadly force untill you believe deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault. And you still cannot be the instigator,or aggressor who voluntarily provoked,entered,or continued the conflict leading to deadly force. And force was not excessive - greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.



Blake

bgreene89 said:

What my instructor told us if an intruder is in the process of breaking and entering and you believe he or she is going to cause great bodily harm, serious bodily injury ,sexualy assault, or cause an imminent threat of death to you, in this circumstance you can use deadly force. But before the intruder comes through the threshold wether that be a window or a door and it does not have to be locked, because I remember asking this question. Once the intruder comes through the threshold you cannot use deadly force untill you believe deadly force is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault. And you still cannot be the instigator,or aggressor who voluntarily provoked,entered,or continued the conflict leading to deadly force. And force was not excessive - greater than reasonably needed to overcome the threat posed by a hostile aggressor.



Blake

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Get a copy of Firearms Law Of North Caroline by Thomas Faulk, second or third edition. They are both the same, just a different cover. One place you can get it. http://grnc.org/book_sales.htm

There is a little over eight pages devoted to this question. Starts on page 156.

hotrod8812 said:

Something I did find a little interesting.

Going back to the same statue from http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-51.1.pdf


§ 14-51.1. Use of deadly physical force against an intruder.
(a) A lawful occupant within a home or other place of residence is justified in using any
degree of force that the occupant reasonably believes is necessary, including deadly force,
against an intruder to prevent a forcible entry into the home or residence or to terminate the
intruder's unlawful entry (i) if the occupant reasonably apprehends that the intruder may kill or
inflict serious bodily harm to the occupant or others in the home or residence, or (ii) if the
occupant reasonably believes that the intruder intends to commit a felony in the home or
residence.



SUBCHAPTER IV. OFFENSES AGAINST THE HABITATION AND OTHER
BUILDINGS.
Article 14.
Burglary and Other Housebreakings.
§ 14-51. First and second degree burglary.
There shall be two degrees in the crime of burglary as defined at the common law. If the
crime be committed in a dwelling house, or in a room used as a sleeping apartment in any
building, and any person is in the actual occupation of any part of said dwelling house or
sleeping apartment at the time of the commission of such crime, it shall be burglary in the first
degree. If such crime be committed in a dwelling house or sleeping apartment not actually
occupied by anyone at the time of the commission of the crime, or if it be committed in any
house within the curtilage of a dwelling house or in any building not a dwelling house, but in
which is a room used as a sleeping apartment and not actually occupied as such at the time of the
commission of the crime, it shall be burglary in the second degree. For the purposes of defining
the crime of burglary, larceny shall be deemed a felony without regard to the value of the
property in question. (1889, c. 434, s. 1; Rev., s. 3331; C.S., s. 4232; 1969, c. 543, s.

So If I am reading the bold section correct, If you break in to a house in the context shown in GS § 14-51
and commit larceny (Larceny defined below with link) without regard to the amount of the property its a felony.
So If I break in to your home in the context shown above, And I make it too your counter and I take some of your Tylenol I have committed a felony.

I apologize if my grammar is off a bit.

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Does NC have "Breaking and Entering" laws?

In Texas, I sat on a jury for a burglary case. Here, Burglary was defined at Breaking and Entering with the intent to commit theft. B&E was entering a premises where you did not have implicit or explicit permissions to enter. In this case, the perp was caught by the owner exiting his garage with a weed-eater - so he obviously had intent to commit theft and he was in a place he didn't have permission. 20 years. (Bang goes the gavel). - (if you think we were too hard on him, his defense was his pastor that he was a good boy and that he was stealing due to a drug problem and he was on parole for a prior burglary - didn't learn the first time. We also had virtually no other choice except for prison - just how long, and his previous sentence was 15 years. We would have much rather sent him to get some kind drug rehabilitation, but that wasn't an option).

Now back to NC. If these laws applied in NC, there's be a problem since you'd need to determine the intent of the perp. You don't know why they are breaking in. I have to "apprehend" what their motive is. If I shoot him as he's entering and he's unarmed, I'm in trouble. But If I wait until he's in my house and and he pulls a gun, he's got the drop on me. And I still have the 'duty to retreat' until I have a clear and present threat. These laws as written are not written well or logically.

TX is a Castle Doctrine state so the issue is moot. NC needs CD too.

billv said:

Does NC have "Breaking and Entering" laws?

In Texas, I sat on a jury for a burglary case. Here, Burglary was defined at Breaking and Entering with the intent to commit theft. B&E was entering a premises where you did not have implicit or explicit permissions to enter. In this case, the perp was caught by the owner exiting his garage with a weed-eater - so he obviously had intent to commit theft and he was in a place he didn't have permission. 20 years. (Bang goes the gavel). - (if you think we were too hard on him, his defense was his pastor that he was a good boy and that he was stealing due to a drug problem and he was on parole for a prior burglary - didn't learn the first time. We also had virtually no other choice except for prison - just how long, and his previous sentence was 15 years. We would have much rather sent him to get some kind drug rehabilitation, but that wasn't an option).

Now back to NC. If these laws applied in NC, there's be a problem since you'd need to determine the intent of the perp. You don't know why they are breaking in. I have to "apprehend" what their motive is. If I shoot him as he's entering and he's unarmed, I'm in trouble.

A: No, If you believe he or she is going to do great bodily harm,sexualy assault you, are cause an imminent threat of death to you are some lawful resident in your household you can you deadly force before he or she comes through the threshold! However once he or she comes through the threshold they then have to sexualy assault you,cause great bodily harm to you, are cause an imminent threat of death to you.

But If I wait until he's in my house and and he pulls a gun, he's got the drop on me. And I still have the 'duty to retreat'

A:You do not have to retreat in your own home premises or business premises.

until I have a clear and present threat. These laws as written are not written well or logically.

TX is a Castle Doctrine state so the issue is moot. NC needs CD too.

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Sorry if my grammar is off a little.


Blake

hotrod8812 said:

So If I am reading the bold section correct, If you break in to a house in the context shown in GS § 14-51
and commit larceny (Larceny defined below with link) without regard to the amount of the property its a felony.
So If I break in to your home in the context shown above, And I make it too your counter and I take some of your Tylenol I have committed a felony.

Click to expand...

I'll go you one better. Breaking into an occupied dwelling is a Felony, period, end of discussion.


14‑51. First and second degree burglary.
There shall be two degrees in the crime of burglary as defined at the common law. If the crime be committed in a dwelling house, or in a room used as a sleeping apartment in any building, and any person is in the actual occupation of any part of said dwelling house or sleeping apartment at the time of the commission of such crime, it shall be burglary in the first degree.

14‑52. Punishment for burglary.
Burglary in the first degree shall be punishable as a Class D felony, and burglary in the second degree shall be punishable as a Class G felony.


We need a CD to clear all this junk up though. Too many gray areas and too many possible hoops to have to jump though.

chiefjason said:

We need a CD to clear all this junk up though. Too many gray areas and too many possible hoops to have to jump though.

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And no civil immunity.

billv said:

Does NC have "Breaking and Entering" laws?

In Texas, I sat on a jury for a burglary case. Here, Burglary was defined at Breaking and Entering with the intent to commit theft. B&E was entering a premises where you did not have implicit or explicit permissions to enter. In this case, the perp was caught by the owner exiting his garage with a weed-eater - so he obviously had intent to commit theft and he was in a place he didn't have permission. 20 years. (Bang goes the gavel). - (if you think we were too hard on him, his defense was his pastor that he was a good boy and that he was stealing due to a drug problem and he was on parole for a prior burglary - didn't learn the first time. We also had virtually no other choice except for prison - just how long, and his previous sentence was 15 years. We would have much rather sent him to get some kind drug rehabilitation, but that wasn't an option).

Now back to NC. If these laws applied in NC, there's be a problem since you'd need to determine the intent of the perp. You don't know why they are breaking in. I have to "apprehend" what their motive is. If I shoot him as he's entering and he's unarmed, I'm in trouble. But If I wait until he's in my house and and he pulls a gun, he's got the drop on me. And I still have the 'duty to retreat' until I have a clear and present threat. These laws as written are not written well or logically.

TX is a Castle Doctrine state so the issue is moot. NC needs CD too.

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GS § 14-54. Breaking or entering buildings generally.

http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/enactedlegislation/statutes/pdf/bysection/chapter_14/gs_14-54.pdf

I'm fairly certain we do not have a duty to retreat while in your domicile.

We do have a duty to retreat (i.e. Don't go be a hero) in public.

I can't cite anything as I'm on my phone.

elixin77 said:

I'm fairly certain we do not have a duty to retreat while in your domicile.

We do have a duty to retreat (i.e. Don't go be a hero) in public.

I can't cite anything as I'm on my phone.

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Found this here: http://www.aoc.state.nc.us/www/public/coa/opinions/2007/060019-1.htm

Further, our Courts have held that “'no man by the show of violence has the right to put another in fear and thereby force him to leave a place where he has a right to be.'” State v. Price, 271 N.C. 521, 526, 157 S.E.2d 127, 130 (1967)

I still haven't found State v. Price so don't know the whole context.

bgreene89 said:

Don't take this the wrong way I am not trying to be rude nothing. I do remember alot from concealed handgun class, but I also want to make double sure about the laws before I shoot someone no matter what the situation is! Id rather someone shoot me, and then I shoot back before I get sent to prison. And I found my book he gave us in the class to take home so now I know the laws.


Thanks for the information everyone, yall are a real help and very friendly most friendlest forum yet I have found!

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For me, the basic acid-test is "Is my life in imminent danger?"
If there's any question as to whether the answer is "YES" then don't shoot.

Remember that just because you are involved in a justified shoot doesn't mean you won't be arrested, have your weapon confiscated, and have to spend thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars defending yourself.
Just because you see it as a clean shoot doesn't mean the LEO's will see it that way.

REAL SITUATION: Names have been omitted.
My wives co-workers son (18 yrs old) is in jail. He's been there for 6 months because they can't afford his bail. The mom and dad left town for a vacation over the weekend and left 18 & 16 yr old son and daughter at home in charge. So, son and daughter decides to have a big 'ol party while mom and dad are away (bet you didn't see that coming). So some guys come to the party who get rowdy and son asks them to leave. There's a little **** talking and threats, but they leave and come back a little while later with baseball bats.
The four of them come into the yard, get out of the car with baseball bats and are screaming threats and one busts out the window of sisters car. Son, now scared, takes an old revolver from the closet that used to belong to grandma, and walks out into his own front yard, on his own property to tell the assholes to leave. They start talkiing BS, threats re made, yada yada yada, and when one of the guys with baseball bat makes a move towards son, son shoots him in the chest, killing him.
Son has been in jail for murder since then, trial expected to be in March (maybe) or April. His court appointed lawyer <(OMG) says it should be a no-brainer and says he doesn't see why son has been charged to begin with.
Neither do I, but the fact is he's been in jail for nearly 7 months and might be convicted of a crime.
If you are in Johnston County and know who I am talking about, please respect his privacy.

My point is, if your gonna use deadly force, make sure it's worth the price you might have to pay. Even is son is found not guilty, he still spent 7 months in jail, had his car repoed, lost his job, got his name all over the news as a murderer, etc.