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Thread: Stopped at the Covington Walmart

  1. #1
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    Stopped at the Covington Walmart

    So tonight, I was doing some shopping with my wife and daughter. We had spent a good hour and a half at Walmart before checking out. It was incredibly busy. I am sure everyone was getting their Christmas shopping done. The lines were ridiculously long. Anyway, as we were searching for the shortest lines, I heard one of the Customer Service Supervisors on her radio saying "He's heading toward the door right now.." with no knowledge of me being the subject.

    Anyway, the lines didn't seem any shorter, so we all turned around and got back in line at the far side of the store. Then I heard her say "He just turned around. He's in line at aisle ***"

    Within about one minute, a man walked up to my strong side, and got (no kidding) about three or four inches away from my sidearm. He did not announce himself as being any kind of staff of Walmart. I turned around and looked at him, and here's how the conversation went:

    (His name is Craig)

    Craig: "Do you have a uh.. concealed pistol license?"

    Me: "Yes..." (with a pause)

    Craig: "Uhm.. may I, uhm.. see it?"

    (At this point, I was in a long line, with over $250.00 worth of merchandise, so I hesitantly complied)

    Me: *Pulls out my CPL and shows him*

    Craig *Looks at it for not even a second, and hands it back* Okay, thank you. I appreciate it. We've had some customer complaints, so I just had to ask to make sure you were legal."

    Me: "Actually, Washington State is an Open Carry State, and you do not need any sort of licensing to carry your firearm in the manner that I am carrying it."

    Craig: "Well you know, when we have customers complain, we have to take action. But you are in the clear. I am sorry for any inconvenience."

    Me: "Wait a second. Is this a store policy we're talking about here? Do you require customers to show their CPL if they are carrying openly? Because I use to work in Loss Prevention at the Supercenter Walmart, and during the regional meeting with the regional and market Asset Protection Manager, he never mentioned any such policy. Infact, he said that if the state allows customers to carry a firearm without a license, then it is the policy of Walmart to do so as well."

    Craig: *With a surprised look on his face, while looking at the ground* "Well I uhhm, considering you are the one carrying the firearm, you are probably right. I will be sure to look in to it."

    Me: "Well there is no probably. I AM right. I have been carrying my firearm like this for years. Call your Market Asset Protection Manager, Doug Strange, and he'll tell you."

    Craig: *With another extremely surprised look on his face, after finding out that I know the Market Asset Protection Manager* " Well I do apologize. It's mostly women with their children that have complained. In fact, there was a man in here last week with his firearm, and I asked him the same thing. I truly did not mean any inconvenience to you or your family."

    Me: "What's the store managers name?"

    Craig: "Janine Janet. Her name is on the receipt."

    Me: "And what is your name and title here?"

    Craig: "My name is Craig. I am an assistant manager."

    Me: "Well I'll be giving her a call tomorrow, along with the Market Manager."

    Craig: "Well you have every right to do that. I will be sure to look in to it for you."

    And then he walked away.


    The entire tone of the conversation changed when I informed him I use to work for Walmart as Asset Protection. The guy couldn't even look me in the eye. He was standing there looking at the ground, talking incredibly nervously, with the Customer Service Supervisor girl (the one who was talking to him earlier) was standing behind him, looking INCREDIBLY flustered. She was very red in the face, and you could tell she was very irritated he didn't ask me to leave. Infact, I am sure it was her who complained - not a customer.

    It also made me extremely uncomfortable that he walked so close to my firearm. He was literally only a few inches away from it, and he did not announce himself as any kind of employee.
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 12-17-2010 at 01:57 AM.

  2. #2
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    I'll agree that it was a little stupid of him to get that close to your weapon, and the fact that he was talking to you in the first place, but was it necessary to figuratively squash him like a bug once he had apologized for the inconvenience and was retreating?

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    Yes it is, if that guy thinks that all gun owners know as much as Aaron he will think twice before approaching us because some "customer" or employee complained. Said loss prevention guy will also tell his buddies about it and what he learned from the experience.

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    There is a big difference between a friendly conversation and an attempt to intimidate/coerce with an intentional invasion of ones personal space.... GOOD ON THE POSTER for how he handled the situation!
    Last edited by JoeSparky; 12-17-2010 at 01:05 AM.

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    Regular Member SpyderTattoo's Avatar
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    Good for you. I wouldn't have showed him my CPL though. But I normally OC in the "sterile" manner anyway. I shop there quite often and have never had an incident. I expect that trend will continue, thanks to you.

    Good job
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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    I'll agree that it was a little stupid of him to get that close to your weapon, and the fact that he was talking to you in the first place, but was it necessary to figuratively squash him like a bug once he had apologized for the inconvenience and was retreating?
    I wasn't as rude as the dialogue of the text made it sound - and the thing is, he never admitted to being wrong, and he dodged my question about the policy.

    He referred to it as a "Safety concern" rather than any policy.

    Trust me, under any other circumstances, I would not have bothered to show him my CPL, but since I had over $250.00 of merchandise, waiting in an extremely long line with, and my family were present, I decided to show him and proceed to educate him. He was also not as apologetic in his tone as one may get the impression of, based off of my text.

    I also sent an email to "Walmart Customer Service" off of Walmart.com and sent it to the Covington store, explaining the situation.
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 12-17-2010 at 01:58 AM.

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    Regular Member amzbrady's Avatar
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    I wonder how they would handle it, if our wives felt threatened by those chains that dangle from belt loops to wallets? I wonder if they would approach someone with a chain and ask them to cover it or not wear it? Or, what about knives in holsters on belts.

    Oooh, I just had a thought, I wonder what management would do, if you open carried up to them and made a complaint that you feel unsafe that there is someone with a knife on their belt, espesially knowing that they did not have to pass a background check to be able to own it?
    If you voted for Obama to prove you are not a racist...
    what will you do now to prove you are not stupid?

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I found many times, the "complaints" are not really there.

    When it is it is just one customer on a mission.

    Good job Aaron, except for not carrying sterile.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Well done.
    And I think it is fine to verbally pound him for his lack of knowledge of his job and failure to recognize your personal space. Too bad you couldn't bring the little red faced complainer into the verbal dress-down. She needed it at least as much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I wonder how they would handle it, if our wives felt threatened by those chains that dangle from belt loops to wallets? I wonder if they would approach someone with a chain and ask them to cover it or not wear it? Or, what about knives in holsters on belts.

    Oooh, I just had a thought, I wonder what management would do, if you open carried up to them and made a complaint that you feel unsafe that there is someone with a knife on their belt, espesially knowing that they did not have to pass a background check to be able to own it?
    Would they follow up if one had a fear of paper products or household cleaners? Cause there's some in nearly every basket going thru Wal-Mart. Just like there are guns for sale in Wal-Mart. I feel a phobia to TP, paper towels, and household cleaners coming on. Could every shopper conceal those please? <sarcasm off>

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    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amzbrady View Post
    I wonder how they would handle it, if our wives felt threatened by those chains that dangle from belt loops to wallets? I wonder if they would approach someone with a chain and ask them to cover it or not wear it? Or, what about knives in holsters on belts.

    Oooh, I just had a thought, I wonder what management would do, if you open carried up to them and made a complaint that you feel unsafe that there is someone with a knife on their belt, espesially knowing that they did not have to pass a background check to be able to own it?
    Don't overlook how intimidating one with tattoo's on their necks, entire arms. Doesn't everyone know that those are a clear sign of "gang membership"? Don't believe me, just watch TV and listen to all the experts on the "cop shows".

    Maybe Wal-Mart should consider asking THEM to leave too.

    Continue on with:

    Union Members wearing jackets with their Union Emblem on them. These could offensive to non-union workers.

    School Teachers. We know how "subversive" some of them can be.

    and now my favorite

    Any Parent with kids that doesn't have them on a leash. Kids running around and screaming in a store are just about enough to make one who has a gun want to use it.


    Last thought, has anyone seen the news account of the School Board Shooting in FL?. If it hadn't been for an armed person there, there might have been several "openings on the Board". Granted he was a former LEO but the fact remains, someone with a gun cut short an individuals attempt to kill as many as he could.

    Maybe the next time will be in a Wal-Mart.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  12. #12
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    I'm not showing my papers to anyone unless I am legally required to do so. I will leave the store if asked. Lots of other places sell $250 worth of toys, groceries, etc.

  13. #13
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Me: "Wait a second. Is this a store policy we're talking about here? Do you require customers to show their CPL if they are carrying openly?
    I read the account and I never saw where he required you to produce your CPL. He asked and you voluntarily handed it to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    I wasn't as rude as the dialogue of the text made it sound - and the thing is, he never admitted to being wrong, and he dodged my question about the policy.
    My apologies, it was your own written (and subsequently edited) account of the dialogue, so I figured its what you wanted us to base our opinions and input on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by G20-IWB24/7 View Post
    My apologies, it was your own written (and subsequently edited) account of the dialogue, so I figured its what you wanted us to base our opinions and input on.
    As far as word for word goes, it was very close, although, I may have appeared more rude in my text here, than I truly was in person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Me: "Actually, Washington State is an Open Carry State, and you do not need any sort of licensing to carry your firearm in the manner that I am carrying it."

    Craig: "Well you know, when we have customers complain, we have to take action. But you are in the clear. I am sorry for any inconvenience."

    Me: "Wait a second....
    Don't get me wrong, because I'm happy that you were able to set him straight, but after this part, you did kind of go of on the poor fellow. I'm seeing above where he said "...when we have customers complain, we have to take action. But you are in the clear. I am sorry for any inconvenience."

    When you worked for LP at WalMart, did you have a boss, and did your boss have a boss? This guy sounds as if he was reluctant to talk to you to begin with (given that he did not know exactly how to approach you) and that he was likely tasked with it and did not volunteer to "go and talk to the MWAG." (I agree it likely wasn't another customer, it was likely that flustered female supervisor that forced him to go and 'check you out.' ???) So, once he had established that you were fine and was apologizing and leaving, you start with 'Wait a second...' and begin to hound on the guy who may not have wanted to talk to you in the first place... I'm just trying to put you in the other guys' shoes for a minute.

    What about this approach: "Look, I know you don't probably see people carrying like this everyday, but it is completely legal, even without a permit. And I've worked at a Walmart before, so I know it can be frustrating when your higher-ups force you to go and do things or talk to people you don't want to. Once I'm through checking out, would you like for me to talk to the store manager for you about the legality of open carry?"

    That way, you aren't 'shooting the messenger,' and you are the person who can put the whole truth in front of the complaining manager, thus providing the same positive result for the future OCers that may frequent the store.

    Just a thought.

    -G20

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    I completely understand what you're saying. What bothered me, was that he approached me with the frame of mind that one was required to have a CPL in order to open carry. The reason he told me that I was "in the clear", was because I presented the CPL to him. Maybe I responded in the heat of the moment, but I was sure not to be rude or talk disrespectfully toward him.

    I agree that your response would have been great, however, it didn't even cross my mind at the time of the incident.
    Last edited by Aaron1124; 12-17-2010 at 07:49 PM.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    What bothered me, was that he approached me with the frame of mind that one was required to have a CPL in order to open carry.
    Or someone else TOLD him "Go make sure that guy has a permit to carry that thing..." Again, not disagreeing, just pointing out that there might have been more to the other guy's story...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by olypendrew View Post
    I'm not showing my papers to anyone unless I am legally required to do so. I will leave the store if asked. Lots of other places sell $250 worth of toys, groceries, etc.
    Yep.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I respect private property too, but I would have just politely informed them this is an "open carry" state and that a permit is not needed as long as I am open carrying. Have had to do this many times. Most of the time people just don't realize that and it leads to a good conversation and leaves them more educated for the next encounter. Even have been asked by younger guys at stores when can they legally start doing the same thing......
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    The guy couldn't even look me in the eye. He was standing there looking at the ground, talking incredibly nervously,

    It makes sense he was scared, he was tasked to go talk to the guy with the gun...he is without a gun, and is probably scared of guns because of years of brainwashing. I figure a person is nervous because they assume that I am a criminal waiting to go off on someone and they don't want it to be them.

    He should have stayed a bit more clear of your strong side, maybe you should recommend that to the management.

    Last week when I was at Wally-world the guy at the door pushed me down to the ground, and of course I was armed, but he didn't know that. The "oh sh*t" look on his face when he found out I was armed will give him something to think about while he is looking for another job.
    Last edited by Beretta92FSLady; 12-19-2010 at 03:40 PM.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

  22. #22
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    Why the hell did someone push you on the ground? Was it intentional?

  23. #23
    Regular Member amlevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beretta92FSLady View Post
    He should have stayed a bit more clear of your strong side, maybe you should recommend that to the management.
    Why? If I were this person, and I wanted to see what your intentions were I think I might just do the same and be "on your strong side". That way I know where the weapon and your hand is at all times. On the other side your actions toward your firearm are shielded. If I wanted to stop you from deploying your firearm why would I want to be on your weak side and give you all the advantage? Just wondering what the employee did wrong from that standpoint.
    "If I shoot all the ammo I am carrying I either won't need anymore or more won't help"

    "If you refuse to stand up for others now, who will stand up for you when your time comes?"

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by amlevin View Post
    Why? If I were this person, and I wanted to see what your intentions were I think I might just do the same and be "on your strong side". That way I know where the weapon and your hand is at all times. On the other side your actions toward your firearm are shielded. If I wanted to stop you from deploying your firearm why would I want to be on your weak side and give you all the advantage? Just wondering what the employee did wrong from that standpoint.
    The issue was he approached me that closely, without identifying who he was. He waited a good few seconds before he stated what his intentions were.

  25. #25
    Regular Member Beretta92FSLady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron1124 View Post
    Why the hell did someone push you on the ground? Was it intentional?
    I think it was intentional, it felt intentional. They thought I was stealing something, they were wrong.
    I don't mind watching the OC-Community (tea party 2.0's, who have hijacked the OC-Community) cannibalize itself. I do mind watching OC dragged through the gutter. OC is an exercise of A Right. I choose to not OC; I choose to not own firearms. I choose to leave the OC-Community to it's own self-inflicted injuries, and eventual implosion. Carry on...

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