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Thread: Emergency BATFE rule proposed

  1. #1
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    Exclamation Emergency BATFE rule proposed

    Text here: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-31761.pdf

    Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles.

    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
    [OMB Number 1140–NEW]
    Agency Information Collection Activities: Proposed Collection; Comments Requested
    ACTION: 60-Day Emergency Notice of Information Collection Under Review: Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles.
    The Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, will submit the following information collection request to the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) for review and clearance in accordance with emergency review procedures of the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1995. OMB approval has been requested by January 5, 2011. This notice requests comments from the public and affected agencies concerning the proposed information collection. If granted, the emergency approval is only valid for 180 days. Comments should be directed to OMB, Office of Information and Regulation Affairs, Attention: Department of Justice Desk Officer (202) 395–6466, Washington, DC 20503.
    During the first 60 days of this same review period, a regular review of this information collection is also being undertaken. All comments and suggestions, or questions regarding additional information, to include obtaining a copy of the proposed information collection instrument with instructions, should be directed to Barbara A. Terrell, Barbara.Terrell@atf.gov Firearms Industry Programs Branch, Fax (202) 648–9640, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE., Washington DC 20226.
    Written comments and suggestions from the public and affected agencies concerning the proposed collection of information. Your comments should address one or more of the following four points:

    —Evaluate whether the proposed
    collection of information is necessary for the proper performance of the functions of the agency, including whether the information will have practical utility;

    —Evaluate the accuracy of the agencies estimate of the burden of the proposed collection of information, including the validity of the methodology and assumptions used;

    —Enhance the quality, utility, and clarity of the information to be collected; and

    —Minimize the burden of the collection of information on those who are to respond, including through the use of appropriate automated, electronic, mechanical, or other technological collection techniques or other forms of information technology, e.g., permitting electronic submission of responses.
    Summary of Collection:
    (1) Type of information collection: New.
    (2) The title of the form/collection: Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles.
    (3) The agency form number, if any, and the applicable component of the department sponsoring the collection: Form Number: ATF F 3310.12. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
    (4) Affected public who will be asked or required to respond, as well as a brief abstract: Primary: Business or For-Profit Other: None.
    Need for Collection
    The purpose of the information is to require Federal Firearms Licensees to report multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of two or more rifles within any five consecutive business days with the following characteristics: (a) Semi automatic; (b) a caliber greater than .22; and (c) the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
    (5) An estimate of the total number of respondents and the amount of time estimated for an average respondent to respond/reply: It is estimated that 8,479 respondents will complete a 12 minute form.
    (6) An estimate of the total public burden (in hours) associaed with the collection: The estimated total public burden associated with this information collection is 1,696 hours.
    If additional information is required contact: Lynn Murray, Department Clearance Officer, Policy and Planning Staff, Justice Management Division, United States Department of Justice, 145 N Street, NE., Two Constitution Square, Room 2E–502, Washington, DC 20530.
    Dated: December 14, 2010.
    Lynn Murray,
    Department Clearance Officer, PRA, United States Department of Justice. [FR Doc. 2010–31761 Filed 12–16–10; 8:45 am] BILLING CODE 4410–FY–P
    Last edited by Mr. Y; 12-17-2010 at 04:06 PM. Reason: reformatted to highlight what to do

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    Makin' a list... checkin' it twice...

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Y View Post
    Need for Collection
    The purpose of the information is to require Federal Firearms Licensees to report multiple sales or other dispositions whenever the licensee sells or otherwise disposes of two or more rifles within any five consecutive business days with the following characteristics: (a) Semi automatic; (b) a caliber greater than .22; and (c) the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
    So AR's are cool then and won't be reported? Do they round the .22 up or down? I mean technically an AR is .224 but rounding rules would say .22. Can't they just carry it out one more decimal place? An AK-74 clone should be fine for sure. That's .214. As well as an AR chambered in 5.45mm.

    This goes to show just how stupid and arbitrary this really is.
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    Regular Member HeroHog's Avatar
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    I am willing to bet they mean "bigger" than a .22 Long Rifle as in a more powerful cartridge. That isn't how it reads though...
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    I am willing to bet they mean "bigger" than a .22 Long Rifle as in a more powerful cartridge. That isn't how it reads though...
    's OK. These are the same folks who think some firearms aren't firearms, and some parts and accessories are actually firearms, while other parts are not firearms. Meaning, they'll interpret it however they want no matter what the dictionary says.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-18-2010 at 04:21 AM.

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    Regular Member celticredneck's Avatar
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    Sorry, but the ARs are covered by the "detachable magazine part.

    (a) Semi automatic; (b) a caliber greater than .22; and (c) the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

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    It's an EMERGENCY!!! I like how they make emergencies, in order to get what they want.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The rule asks Dealers to report information that the dealers do not have.

    Gun dealers do not collect the information that the emergency rule wants them to produce. Neither the 4473s or the bound books indicate ability to accept a detachable magazine or whether a rifle is single shot, bolt action or semi-automatic.

    Many guns made before 1968 do not even have serial numbers, so even research cannot identify whether these guns fit the semi-automatic or detachable magazine criteria to be reported.

    Many guns come in detachable magazine and non-detachable magazine flavors. One of the most common is the SKS. How do we know 5 days later if that gun had a detachable magazine or not?

    Is that Western Auto rifle you sold last week a bolt action or semi automatic? No idea, as the info is not collected or recorded.

    Many states have laws which prevent gun dealers from making such a list. I hope that the southers border states have such laws.

    Sad day for the rule of law. Invent a rule that directly contradicts fedral law, which asks private citizens to report information which they do not have, and which would make them state criminals if they tried to collect.

    Thias is a very serious topic for open carry. This specific issue is related to long guns, but the real issue is federal usurpation of power to harm gun owners and otherwise lawful gun dealers.

    This is the first push to trash gun rights. Fight back. Fight back hard.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Here is the explanation, a demand letter WTF is a demand letter?

    Link: http://www.ammoland.com/2010/12/21/a...border-states/

    ATF Acting Director Announces Demand Letters for Multiple Sales of Specific Long Guns in Four Border States
    By Ken Melson, the Acting Director of ATF.
    Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
    Washington, DC --(Ammoland.com)- A recent initiative by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has caught the attention of national media outlets. I wanted to make sure everyone heard from me about this law enforcement initiative so there isn’t any confusion.
    Recently, ATF announced through the Federal Register our intent to initiate a new Demand Letter requiring the reporting of multiple sales of certain long guns by Federal Firearms Licensees, known as FFLs, in the four Southwest Border States. We took this step as a way to help gain actionable law enforcement intelligence which we believe will help reduce criminal firearms trafficking along the Southwest border.
    Before we can actually issue the Demand Letter we must receive approval from the Office of Management and Budget for purposes of the paperwork reduction act. We expect to receive that approval in early January, 2011.
    As many of you already know, the goals of ATF’s Southwest border firearms trafficking strategy are:
    •To prevent violent crime;
    •Ensure the safety of the communities and law enforcement situated along the Southwest Border;
    •And to disrupt and dismantle the firearms trafficking networks responsible for the diversion of firearms from lawful commerce into the hands of the Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations (DTOs)

    Since 2006, there has been a significant increase in drug and firearms-related violence in Mexico and along our Southwest border. In response to this increased violence, ATF has deployed focused resources nationally to prevent the firearms trafficking along the Southwest Border and into Mexico.
    According to ATF trace data, investigative experience, and Mexican law enforcement officials, a large number of rifles are being used in violent crimes in Mexico and along the border. Our new Demand Letter will implement a limited reporting of multiple sales of certain long guns that functions similarly to the current practice of reporting on the multiple sales of handguns. Currently, all FFLs in the country are required to submit a report of multiple sales to the National Tracing Center when an FFL sells two or more handguns to the same purchaser within five consecutive business days.
    The proposed Demand Letter, which is narrowly circumscribed to meet our objectives, will apply a similar reporting requirement to certain long guns, but with these distinct differences:
    First, the reporting requirement will apply only to FFLs doing business in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California, which are major source states for crime guns seized in Mexico and traced to federal firearms licensees.
    Secondly, the reporting requirement applies only to those rifles having all of the following characteristics:
    •A semi-automatic action;
    •A caliber greater than .22; and
    •The ability to accept a detachable magazine.

    These specific characteristics subject a very narrow group of long guns that have been identified by ATF and the Government of Mexico as being involved in violent crimes in Mexico to the reporting requirement. This reporting requirement would apply to the disposition of all rifles in the inventory of the FFLs exhibiting these characteristics, both new and used.
    Third, we propose to implement this initiative as a pilot project for a period of one year.
    Taken together, limiting the geographic scope, impacting a limited number of licensees, affecting a specific group of rifles, and limiting the duration of this reporting requirement, form a tailored, discreet, responsible and proactive response to a significant law enforcement issue.
    Let me be absolutely clear. The purpose of requiring FFLs to report the specified multiple long gun sales in these four source states is to identify criminal firearms traffickers, not to prevent the full and free exercise of our Second Amendment rights, or to encumber the FFLs with burdensome paperwork.
    These reports will give ATF real-time leads for the investigation of gun trafficking. ATF’s experience in these source states proves that multiple purchases of the described rifles are strong indicators of firearms trafficking to Mexico. By obtaining information about these multiple sales, ATF increases the likelihood of uncovering and disrupting trafficking schemes before the firearms make their way into Mexico.
    I know that FFLs are good citizens who share ATF’s interest and commitment in keeping guns out of criminal hands. Working together we can do that without infringing on the rights of law abiding Americans.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Private Burden Review - BATFE was low balling it - AND BATFE forgot C&R Licensees

    The Notice in the Federal Register was for a document review. One of the ways to stop or at least slow this monster is to show that the estimated burden from the BATFE was in error. Here is my estimate of the total regulatory burden of the form. It is more than two orders of magnatude greater than the BATFE estimate. This will be one of my comments to OMB and to BATFE.

    The most important piece of this review was the question of C&R FFLs. Will they be required to send in these reports? They are required to send them in for multiple handgun sales and the Directors news release says Federal Firearms Licensees and does not say dealers.

    Multiple Rifle Sale Reporting - Private Burden Review

    1) Reason for this ReviewI am concerned that the original estimate in the 17 December Federal Register grossly underestimates the burden time upon the public for implementing the proposed Demand Letter. My concerns are explained in paragraphs A-E below and my revised estimate for the burden is included as a table in paragraph 3 below.

    2) Gross Under-reporting Error Factors

    A) One form Estimate is Wrong.

    The burden estimate was calculated at 12 minutes for each FFL Dealer in the four border states (# of border FFL Dealers x 12 minutes each). This assumes that each FFL Dealer will only be required to fill out the form once. Each dealer will actually have to fill out the form each time they have a multiple sales event.

    B) Preparation Time does not include FFL Records Review.

    The records of an FFL are dictated in Federal Law and are not arranged to easily identify multiple sales. Failure to report multiple sales of handguns is one of the top 10 inspection violations that BATFE finds each year when they inspect FFLs. FFL Dealers take significant time, particularly after gun shows, to review their bound books and 4473 forms to try and discover the multiple handgun sales.

    C) Estimate does not include Curio and Relic Collectors.

    The BATFE licenses Collectors under FFL 3, Curio and Relic (C&R) Collectors Licenses. These collectors do hold an FFL and are required to report multiple handgun sales. The press statement by the Director of the BATFE on the issuing of Demand Letters for Multiple Rifle Sales specifically references multiple handgun reporting requirements, identifies Federal Firearms Licensees (This term is used by the ATF when there is a ruling that applies to both Dealers and Collectors) as being subject to the Demand Letter and never uses the term dealer. This clearly demonstrates an intent to extend this requirement to collectors. The number of collectors far exceeds the number of Dealers and pushes the number of Licensees impacted by an order of magnitude, closer to 100,00 than the 8,000 number in the Federal Register.

    D) Estimate does not include the training requirement for Licensees.
    Implementation of this very significant regulatory requirement will require FFL Dealers to implement new operating procedures to try and ensure compliance. This will include time to develop best practices and to train employees. FFL Collectors will have to learn of this new requirement, which will take training time for those that do not even have a business.

    E) Research Time will be required for FFLs to identify which firearms are to be reported.
    The information currently collected and maintained by FFLs (Bound Book for Dealers and Collectors and form 4473 for dealers) does not indicate whether rifles are single shot, bolt action or semi-automatic. For example, if a dealer sells a rifle to a customer at a gun show on Friday and his employee sells another to this customer on Sunday. The multiple sale is discovered in the records review mentioned in B above. Nothing in the record indicates whether the rifle is semi-automatic or not. In some cases this information is discernable and in others significant research will be required to try and determine if this sale is reportable or not. Because the requirement announced by the BATFE Director includes used firearms and rifles produced before 1968 were not required to be serialized, a determination may take several hours, or in the end be impossible. The detachable magazine requirement is even more problematic then determining whether the action was semi-automatic. Many firearms can have either fixed or detached magazines. The SKS is one such rifle, which originally came with an attached magazine, but approximately half of those rifles have been modified to accept a detachable magazine. Again there is nothing in the FFL paperwork to help the FFL make the determination.

    3. A Revised Estimate that includes the regulatory burden on Dealers and Collectors.

    My estimate of the burden upon industry and private citizens is based upon my experience as both a Licensed Collector and a Licensed Dealer. It is broken out in A –E which corresponds to my explanations in part 1 above.

    A Form Completion Dealers 5 x 12 x8600 516000
    A Form Completion Collectors 1 x 12 x 80000 960000
    B Dealer records review 10 x 60 x 8600 5160000
    C Collector records review 1 x 60 x 80000 4800000
    D Training requirements Dealer 1 x 120 x 8600 1032000
    D Training requirements Collector 1 x 60 x 80000 480000
    E Research Dealers 10 x120 x 8600 1032000

    Total Private Burden in Minutes 13980000
    Total Private Burden in Hours 233,000

    B = # Occurances x # minutes x # FFLs
    (Dealers =8600, Collectors = 80,000)
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    The ATF just sent me a copy of the proposed document with instructions. It is a locked PDF. Can't get it to copy paste so I can share. Anybody got Adobe Acrobat Professional or other computer geek-fu to let everybody see it.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Dreamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    Sorry, but the ARs are covered by the "detachable magazine part.

    (a) Semi automatic; (b) a caliber greater than .22; and (c) the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

    You are incorrect. According to the BATFE's own press releases, a rifle must meet ALL THREE requirements to fall under this reporting program:

    Secondly, the reporting requirement applies only to those rifles having all of the following characteristics:
    •A semi-automatic action;
    •A caliber greater than .22; and
    •The ability to accept a detachable magazine.
    It is our cause to dispel the foggy thinking which avoids hard decisions in the delusion that a world of conflict will somehow mysteriously resolve itself into a world of harmony, if we just don't rock the boat or irritate the forces of aggression—and this is hogwash."
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    Regular Member Nevada carrier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    Anybody got Adobe Acrobat Professional or other computer geek-fu to let everybody see it.
    It can be done, but it must be done from your computer where the key lies. Google and you shall find.

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    Full comment period

    In my opinion after discussing this with several pro-gun sources, as well as some contacts at the Capitol I think our best option here is to compartmentalize this issue by issue and the very first thing we need to address is time.

    We need more of it. RE-Contact all the elected officials you've already talked to, and if you haven't do it now.

    Tell them to send ATF a letter demanding -not asking, demanding a FULL 90 DAY COMMENT PERIOD.
    They will balk, hem, haw, stall, tell you they will "monitor things". That is unacceptable. Tell them so. Tell them you want a letter from their office to ATF demanding a full 90 day comment period on this regulation. Here is how it gets done:

    Remind them that Congress can, and has intervened to "extend the comment period" on regulations. See: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2008/E8-15614.htm

    After we secure a comment period, or get the comment period reopened, we can attack the legal arguments.

    Hope this helps!

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroHog View Post
    I am willing to bet they mean "bigger" than a .22 Long Rifle as in a more powerful cartridge. That isn't how it reads though...
    You're correct, it's not, and all rounding aside, this would include the .22 Long Rifle, as technically, it's .223 inch in diameter at the neck.

    On the flip side, if they say the .223 inch .22 LR is fine, then you could argue the .224 inch M-16/AR-15 round is is ok, as well.

    I think what they're targeting is the 0.30 caliber (.308 inch) M-1 Carbine, in response to Obama's decision not to allow its being brought back to the U.S. from surplus stocks in S. Korea. Perhaps not even that, however. Were those bolt-action models, or semi-autos?
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    Some good news for the Christmas season


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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    You're correct, it's not, and all rounding aside, this would include the .22 Long Rifle, as technically, it's .223 inch in diameter at the neck.

    On the flip side, if they say the .223 inch .22 LR is fine, then you could argue the .224 inch M-16/AR-15 round is is ok, as well.

    I think what they're targeting is the 0.30 caliber (.308 inch) M-1 Carbine, in response to Obama's decision not to allow its being brought back to the U.S. from surplus stocks in S. Korea. Perhaps not even that, however. Were those bolt-action models, or semi-autos?
    I understood it was m1 garands that were possibly coming home. the m1 carbine would fit those descriptions, the m1 would not of course seeing as it has only an internal mag that accepts en bloc clips.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    FOX says senators oppose 1/15

    Fox newsw just stated 3 senators, including 2 Democrats have written BATFE demanding that this be withdrawn.

    Lets hope this never sees the light of day!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Draft of the Demand Letter

    The draft demand letter:

    Dear Federal Firearms Licensee:

    The Federal firearms law provides that when required by letter issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), licensees shall submit to ATF all records information required by the GCA or such lesser information as may be specified in the letter. The information requested must be provided in the format specified and for the periods and at the times specified in the letter. 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(5), 27 C.F.R. 478.126.

    As part of the Southwest Border Firearms Trafficking/Violence Initiative, ATF is requiring
    licensed dealers and pawnbrokers in California, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico to submit information concerning multiple sales of certain rifles. You must submit to ATF reports of multiple sales or other dispositions whenever you sell or otherwise dispose of, at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting a detachable magazine, and with a caliber greater than .22 to an unlicensed person.

    This requirement becomes effective upon receipt of this letter and you are required to submit these multiple sales reports for a period of 1 year.

    The required information must be submitted on ATF Form 3310.12, Report of Multiple Sales or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles, no later than the close of business on the day the multiple sale or other disposition takes place. We have enclosed a copy of Form 3310.12 with this letter.

    Additional forms may be obtained from the ATF Distribution Center, 1519 Cabin Branch Drive, Landover, MD 20785, (301) 583-4696, or online at www.atf.gov.

    Be advised that, in addition to the information required by this letter, licensees are still required to submit reports of multiple sales or other dispositions when the licensee sells two or more pistols or revolvers, or any combination of pistols or revolvers totaling two or more to an unlicensed person at one time or during any five consecutive business days. 18 U.S.C. 923(g) (3). Reports of multiple sales or other dispositions of handguns must be reported on ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, and must be submitted separately from the information required by this letter.

    If you have any questions, please contact the National Tracing Center at 1-800-788-7133.

    Link: http://www.gunleaders.com/blog/wp-co...c10-Rifles.pdf
    Last edited by Thundar; 01-15-2011 at 07:40 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  21. #21
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    From Wiki:

    "In hearings before BATF's Appropriations Subcommittee, however, expert evidence was submitted establishing that approximately 75 percent of BATF gun prosecutions were aimed at ordinary citizens who had neither criminal intent nor knowledge, but were enticed by agents into unknowing technical violations.[14]

    The Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 addressed some of the abuses noted in the 1982 Senate Judiciary Subcommittee report."

    They certainly don't have a very good track record, so it's especially surprising they're at it again. One would think they'd learn from their past mistakes.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundar View Post
    The draft demand letter:

    Dear Federal Firearms Licensee:

    The Federal firearms law provides that when required by letter issued by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), licensees shall submit to ATF all records information required by the GCA or such lesser information as may be specified in the letter. The information requested must be provided in the format specified and for the periods and at the times specified in the letter. 18 U.S.C. 923(g)(5), 27 C.F.R. 478.126.

    As part of the Southwest Border Firearms Trafficking/Violence Initiative, ATF is requiring
    licensed dealers and pawnbrokers in California, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico to submit information concerning multiple sales of certain rifles. You must submit to ATF reports of multiple sales or other dispositions whenever you sell or otherwise dispose of, at one time or during any five consecutive business days, two or more semi-automatic rifles capable of accepting a detachable magazine, and with a caliber greater than .22 to an unlicensed person.

    This requirement becomes effective upon receipt of this letter and you are required to submit these multiple sales reports for a period of 1 year.

    The required information must be submitted on ATF Form 3310.12, Report of Multiple Sales or Other Disposition of Certain Rifles, no later than the close of business on the day the multiple sale or other disposition takes place. We have enclosed a copy of Form 3310.12 with this letter.

    Additional forms may be obtained from the ATF Distribution Center, 1519 Cabin Branch Drive, Landover, MD 20785, (301) 583-4696, or online at www.atf.gov.

    Be advised that, in addition to the information required by this letter, licensees are still required to submit reports of multiple sales or other dispositions when the licensee sells two or more pistols or revolvers, or any combination of pistols or revolvers totaling two or more to an unlicensed person at one time or during any five consecutive business days. 18 U.S.C. 923(g) (3). Reports of multiple sales or other dispositions of handguns must be reported on ATF Form 3310.4, Report of Multiple Sale or Other Disposition of Pistols and Revolvers, and must be submitted separately from the information required by this letter.

    If you have any questions, please contact the National Tracing Center at 1-800-788-7133.

    Link: http://www.gunleaders.com/blog/wp-co...c10-Rifles.pdf
    Just to be clear, the above form has been posted on ATF's website as a DRAFT. That form has NOT been approved for use by OMB as of 01/18/11.

  23. #23
    Regular Member
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    Comments close 02/14/2011 on this - act now

    If you haven't already commented on the ATF multi-rifle sale registration scheme, Please take a few minutes to do so.

    Through January 12th, here is all who commented in opposition as well as a link to those who support it.
    http://www.gunleaders.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=79


    Here are some suggested comments:



    I am writing to oppose the so called emergency information collection request to register multiple sales of certain rifles with BATFE as described in FR Doc. 2010–31761 from the 12/17/2010 Federal Register. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2010/pdf/2010-31761.pdf

    This information collection is both illegal and unnecessary. *Further there is no justification for any “emergency” implementation as reported by the Washington Post:
    White House delayed rule meant to stop gun flow to Mexico, Washington Post, Dec. 17, 2010, On-line edition:
( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...121706598.html ).

    * *The regulation proposed is outside the statutory grant of authority to record information about multiple sales of firearms. *Title 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(3)(A) specifically grants the authority to collect multiple sale information on handguns and revolvers. *Other firearms are excluded and there is no implied authority to extend this reporting requirement to rifles or any other type of firearm.

    This attempt by ATF is universally and overwhelmingly opposed by citizens
    and their congressional delegations. See
    http://rehberg.house.gov/index.cfm?s...26&itemid=1584
    http://www.gunleaders.com/Baucus_Tes...ATFE122310.pdf
    http://www.gunleaders.com/blog/wp-co...tter020111.pdf
    * *”FFL” holders are already required by law to respond to BATFE requests for information on firearms distribution pursuant to criminal investigations: *Title 18 U.S.C. § 923(g)(7).
    * *The regulation contains no provision for the destruction of information collected, which establishes a nationwide registry of “certain types of firearms” as proposed. Because of this the regulation as proposed is illegal under Title 18 U.S.C. § 926(a). *”No such rule or regulation … may require that records required to be maintained under this chapter or any portion of the contents of such records, be recorded at or transferred to a facility owned, managed, or controlled by the United States or any State or any political subdivision thereof, nor that any system of registration of firearms, firearms owners, or firearms transactions or disposition be established.”

    There is a grave potential for this information collection to unduly burden citizens who are collectors or must obtain purchase permits at the local or state level to possess firearms. The proposed regulation does not say what the agency intends to do with the information but ostensibly it would be for criminal investigations. Subjecting law abiding gun owners to this type of investigation under the guise of “information collection” is an overt attempt to prevent them from exercising their 2nd Amendment rights to purchase and own firearms.

    <name>
    -------------------------------------------------
    Or - use NSSF's comments - or use NSSF's comments
    http://www.nssfblog.com/atf-to-requi...for-long-guns/

    or both, but please comment in opposition to this ATF scheme.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30

    Form 4473, Section D, 28, no serial number use NSN or N/A

    Manufacturer model numbers will tell you the exact configuration of guns now-a-days. Example: Savage Arms Hunter Series 111 GCNS. .270 or .30-06, bolt action, detachable box magazine. The only thing the PN does not tell you is caliber, but this gun comes in only two calibers.

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30.

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30 has been around a very long time and folks have been putting up this de facto federal level gun registration for just as long even while touting the repeal of state level gun registration laws.

    Not a lot I can say against this.
    Form 4473 Section D 26 -Manufacturer and/or importer
    Form 4473 Section D 27 - Model
    Form 4473 Section D 28 - Serial Number
    Form 4473 Section D 29 - Type (pistol, revolver,rifle, shotgun, receiver, frame, etc.)
    Form 4473 Section D 30 - Caliber or gauge

    Manufacturer/ Importer number might tell you what the configuration of the firearm was when the serial number was stamped/engraved, but that does not tell you what the configuratioon was when you transferred it.

    Example: I have two Yugo SKS rifles with importer serial numbers. No way to tell from the bound book or a form 4473 which one of the two was capable of receiving detachable magazines and which one had an attached magazine.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Colorado Springs, Colorado, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30

    Form 4473, Section D, 28, no serial number use NSN or N/A

    Manufacturer model numbers will tell you the exact configuration of guns now-a-days. Example: Savage Arms Hunter Series 111 GCNS. .270 or .30-06, bolt action, detachable box magazine. The only thing the PN does not tell you is caliber, but this gun comes in only two calibers.

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30.

    Form 4473, Section D, 26-30 has been around a very long time and folks have been putting up this de facto federal level gun registration for just as long even while touting the repeal of state level gun registration laws.

    Not a lot I can say against this.
    Coming from a guy who used to fly (navigate) military aircraft around the world while digging through more than two feet of 8-1/2" x 11" regs governing every facet, I'd say the feds are making this far more complicated than is necessary.

    How about this?

    A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

    There! That's simple enough, and even in compliance with some paperwork reduction act enacted a few years back. If I'm not mistaken, it'll even fit on a single piece of paper, rather than 2-1/2 feet.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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