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Thread: Outdoor gun ranges under fire for safety

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Outdoor gun ranges under fire for safety

    Outdoor gun ranges under fire for safety.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...s_N.htm?csp=24

    My 1978 Toyota truck, which BTW I bought in the fall of 1977 and still driving, had something hit the windshield one time when I was driving out in the country. There were no other vehicles in sight. The hit was right in front of me on the driver's side. It made a loud noise upon impact and the damage looked like maybe a bullet had hit it. Maybe it was and maybe it wasn't a bullet. It could have been a small piece of rock coming in from outer space. We are constantly being bombarded by space debris.

    If there were no bullet or bullet fragments found, I would not be so quick to blame a gun range for this incident. It appears that these people are not happy that a shooting range is so close to them. This is their opportunity to go after them.

    Later on down in the article, there is concern about lead causing damage to underground water . Someone tell me, where does lead come from? If it's from the earth, shouldn't we try extracting it all out so that it does not pollute underground water? [Tongue in cheek statement.]
    Last edited by CenTex; 12-17-2010 at 04:43 PM.
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    I'd be a little put out if that happened to me too. I use the outdoor range also, and while most of their efforts to keep the projectiles and noise inside the grounds, there's still the problem of ricochet. Without overhead barriers of some sort, I don't see how this can be stopped though. Our biggest problem lies in population expansion, and with that our right to practice traditions such as this are surely doomed in the long term. As far as progress is concerned what isn't planned for development, is planned for refuge or buffer. Our future is being marketed as we speak.
    That said, have any of you ever walked close to a driving range or golf course. I can find a hundred balls within injurious distance and far off their property in just 20 to thirty minutes in some spots. No outcry.
    The lead thing....I don't know. Lead is pretty toxic, but I don't know about its' leaching properties. If it does leach, it could be a problem. But I'd guess if that were the case, the feds would be using that against just about every single outdoor range that's been in existence for decades or so...with the exception of their own of course

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    The lead thing....I don't know. Lead is pretty toxic, but I don't know about its' leaching properties. If it does leach, it could be a problem.
    If it leaches, and I am not an expert to know whether it does or not, than I say we need to extract all of it from the crust of the earth and confine it so that it can longer do harm to our water source.

    The second law of thermodynamics says that all things deteriorate. If that is true, and it appears to be true on personal observation, then lead probably does leach. This is especially possible as it mingles in with soil and sand which is always shifting and acting as an abrasive. These elements, along with rain, surely have an effect on lead bullets.

    Tell me, anyone, what doesn't pollute our environment from the environmentalist view?
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    If it leaches, and I am not an expert to know whether it does or not, than I say we need to extract all of it from the crust of the earth and confine it so that it can longer do harm to our water source.

    The second law of thermodynamics says that all things deteriorate. If that is true, and it appears to be true on personal observation, then lead probably does leach. This is especially possible as it mingles in with soil and sand which is always shifting and acting as an abrasive. These elements, along with rain, surely have an effect on lead bullets.

    Tell me, anyone, what doesn't pollute our environment from the environmentalist view?
    There are several factors that would either dismiss or give rise to lead contamination worries. As any poison, the concentration levels matter. Lead, trapped in desert sands or rock barriers, probably isn't a concern until we start mining it. But lay it in a groundwater table and it probably would be. Mercury is similar. It wasn't a big deal with the exception of mining it and then using it in water applications. Concentrations of it are problematic, as we have seen in the delta and even in ocean fish. Both appear naturally of course, but the areas where lead, mercury, and other toxins like Arsenic for example, have been avoided, ie pools where dead animal carcasses have been accumulting over the decades. These days we have more precise methods to seek out where toxins accumulate, and there's alot more people they affect when they do.
    I've had previous experience with toxins in the water. I worked on a property for nearly a decade that was contimated with TCE from a chemical company next door. It was hard to tell when the water was cold, but when you ran the hot water it became odorous. Now I live in front of yet another problem. They've drilled monitoring wells a few feet from the house to track the same chemical and here I am miles from the former site. Unfortunately, toxins in the water are cropping up all over now. I want to preserve and practice my rights, but if I'm too sick to do so, or I can't get water to drink, the reasons for doing so start to diminish a little. In other words, I may have an even bigger problem

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    Lead oxide is dangerous in large amounts, not the metal. Which is why you should melt and pour lead molds outside, or in a very well venitilated area, to minimize breathing vaporized lead.

    Lead has a neat ability to form a "crust" of rust which, like aluminum, will protect it from further deterioration. Bullets found from the American Revolution and Civil Wars show little, if any, contamination in the immediate soil they were contained in.

    Tests done on shooting ranges have proven no migration of lead particulates or oxides into watersheds or groundwater.

    Tests on Condors have also proven....that there is no proof they were killed by lead contaminates from ingested bullets (if this was true, there would be piles of dead vultures, eagles, hawks and crows). They have died mostly from drowning and electrocution.

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Army View Post
    Lead oxide is dangerous in large amounts, not the metal. Which is why you should melt and pour lead molds outside, or in a very well venitilated area, to minimize breathing vaporized lead.

    Lead has a neat ability to form a "crust" of rust which, like aluminum, will protect it from further deterioration. Bullets found from the American Revolution and Civil Wars show little, if any, contamination in the immediate soil they were contained in.

    Tests done on shooting ranges have proven no migration of lead particulates or oxides into watersheds or groundwater.

    Tests on Condors have also proven....that there is no proof they were killed by lead contaminates from ingested bullets (if this was true, there would be piles of dead vultures, eagles, hawks and crows). They have died mostly from drowning and electrocution.
    Thank you Army. You may want to cite your source(s). As I am discovering more and more, before long someone will post an opposite result from tests. Should they do so, they should cite their source(s).
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Thank you Army. You may want to cite your source(s). As I am discovering more and more, before long someone will post an opposite result from tests. Should they do so, they should cite their source(s).
    It depends on which scientists your listening to.
    Same with our food and water.
    Example is: MSG's in almost all our food, Chlorine & Flo-ride in our water.
    Here's a partial list.
    Aspartame
    Glutamate
    Hydrolyzed Protein
    Casein or Caseinate

    My source is : www.naturalnews.com
    And Marcola.com
    Google them and do your own research on what the "FDA" and Government
    say is fine to eat and drink.
    Lead is a very small Issue, when it comes to what your putting in your mouth every day
    and drinking daily.

    There is an agenda to control and de-populate, sad but true !

    Robin47

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robin47 View Post
    It depends on which scientists your listening to.
    Same with our food and water.
    Example is: MSG's in almost all our food, Chlorine & Flo-ride in our water.
    Here's a partial list.
    Aspartame
    Glutamate
    Hydrolyzed Protein
    Casein or Caseinate

    My source is : www.naturalnews.com
    And Marcola.com
    Google them and do your own research on what the "FDA" and Government
    say is fine to eat and drink.

    Lead is a very small Issue, when it comes to what your putting in your mouth every day
    and drinking daily.
    There is an agenda to control and de-populate, sad but true ! Robin47
    I don't put much stock into what the government tells me is fine to eat and drink. The food pyramid has almost flipped upside down since I was a kid. You're right about chlorine and fluoride in water and those other nasties you mentioned and seeing what harm they do to our health. Look at high fructose in so much of our FDA approved foods and see the connection to diabetes that is rising at an alarming rate.

    Can't argue with you on the agenda to control and depopulate. That is what Planned Parenthood is all about. Study the bigotry of the founder, Margaret Sanger. Look at the money they receive from the government each year. Look at abortion...and now euthanasia.
    Last edited by CenTex; 12-17-2010 at 07:33 PM.
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    I don't put much stock into what the government tells me is fine to eat and drink. The food pyramid has almost flipped upside down since I was a kid. Look at chlorine and fluoride in water and see what harm they do to our health. Look at high fructose in so much of our FDA approved foods and see the connection to diabetes that is rising at an alarming rate.

    Can't argue with you on the agenda to control and depopulate. That is what Planned Parenthood is all about. Study the bigotry of the founder, Margaret Sanger. Look at the money they receive from the government each year. Look at abortion...and now euthanasia.
    Yeah CenTex,
    I'm getting older now to and, this whole agenda reminds me of the movie "Soilent Green", is this the end of old people when we reach a certain age ? Now that's scary !

    Robin47

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    Regular Member CenTex's Avatar
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    Yeah, I remember an episode of Star Trek with William Shatner where they discovered an inhabited planet where "everyone" was put to death at age fifty. We must not forget the former Governor of Colorado, Richard Lamm, expressing his lovely sentiments when he said the old have a "duty to die."

    Human life becomes valueless when you take God out of the equation. Life loses true purpose. We just become insignificant organisms moving through space until our demise while being replaced by other insignificant organisms moving through space. Without God we have no reason for being and no accountability to a higher being or order of sanity. Thus, we continue to increase in violence and depravity.

    The right to life, liberty, and property flies in the face of evolution. They are incongruous.* Life, liberty, and property are God ordained.

    btt


    *incongruous
    adj : lacking in harmony or compatibility or appropriateness;
    The words of a tyrant: I never entertain opposing opinions. I am always right.

    Socialism is just another dirty word for totalitarianism.

    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." -Patrick Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Human life becomes valueless when you take God out of the equation. Life loses true purpose. We just become insignificant organisms moving through space until our demise while being replaced by other insignificant organisms moving through space. Without God we have no reason for being and no accountability to a higher being or order of sanity. Thus, we continue to increase in violence and depravity.

    The right to life, liberty, and property flies in the face of evolution. They are incongruous.* Life, liberty, and property are God ordained.

    btt


    *incongruous
    adj : lacking in harmony or compatibility or appropriateness;
    Hopefully there won't be a collections basket coming down the aisle soon...

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex
    Human life becomes valueless when you take God out of the equation. Life loses true purpose.
    I disagree.
    I can see value in improving conditions for ones self and others, whether or not there's any paranormal being involved.

    I feel good when I fill the bird feeders or make a lap for my cats because it helps & pleases them, not because some Christian saint says being nice to animals is a good thing to do. (And because the cats & I like watching the birds, and I like hearing the cats purr, and I like having a warm lap, at least in winter.)

    I can appreciate beauty without being concerned about how it came to be - it just is. Appreciate it. Have you ever cut across the equator of a purple cabbage & looked at the intricate patterns of the leaves? Or noticed the spiral patterns in the head of a sunflower?

    I don't need someone else to tell me how to behave, or what their idea of a supreme entity says is right and wrong.
    Life is valuable in and of itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

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    Regular Member Gundude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    I disagree.
    I can see value in improving conditions for ones self and others, whether or not there's any paranormal being involved.

    I feel good when I fill the bird feeders or make a lap for my cats because it helps & pleases them, not because some Christian saint says being nice to animals is a good thing to do. (And because the cats & I like watching the birds, and I like hearing the cats purr, and I like having a warm lap, at least in winter.)

    I can appreciate beauty without being concerned about how it came to be - it just is. Appreciate it. Have you ever cut across the equator of a purple cabbage & looked at the intricate patterns of the leaves? Or noticed the spiral patterns in the head of a sunflower?

    I don't need someone else to tell me how to behave, or what their idea of a supreme entity says is right and wrong.
    Life is valuable in and of itself.
    Copy paste part of your sig line.

    "It's just natural to want to shoot someone when you don't agree with them or have a beef or you're drunk and can't quite think straight."
    Joan Peterson, Brady Campaign board member


    Right there is the motivation for the Brady's. He is projecting. He would do this so he wants our us to give up our guns so we won't.
    I've had beef's and disagreed with thousands of people in my lifetime. Never did I want to kill them. The times I got drunk, I was trying to laid, not go on a killing spree.
    A citizen may not be required to offer a ―good and substantial reason-- why he should be permitted to exercise his rights. The rights existence is all the reason he needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CenTex View Post
    Yeah, I remember an episode of Star Trek with William Shatner where they discovered an inhabited planet where "everyone" was put to death at age fifty. We must not forget the former Governor of Colorado, Richard Lamm, expressing his lovely sentiments when he said the old have a "duty to die."

    Human life becomes valueless when you take God out of the equation. Life loses true purpose. We just become insignificant organisms moving through space until our demise while being replaced by other insignificant organisms moving through space. Without God we have no reason for being and no accountability to a higher being or order of sanity. Thus, we continue to increase in violence and depravity.

    The right to life, liberty, and property flies in the face of evolution. They are incongruous.* Life, liberty, and property are God ordained.

    btt


    *incongruous
    adj : lacking in harmony or compatibility or appropriateness;
    Yeah CenTex, I seen that Star Trek one to and I remember it to.
    Your right on ! About God and whats happening today.
    Paul in the bible said it would be "Dangerous Times" in these days.
    Your original post talks about shooting areas and safty.
    Where I'm at there's only one place to shoot in this county, I call it "Ricochet Flats", as there's no
    berm or hill to shoot into.
    Its all flat and nothing but rocks, on that BLM land. Very Dangerous !
    I went there once and won't be going back.
    I have to drive miles away now to the National Forest, to find a good place to shoot, in the side of a hill.

    I remember when you could shoot anywhere, where it was safe to shoot in a hill or bank.
    In the summer when its hot all shooting is almost stopped.the "reason" is Ricochet's might cause a fire.
    However I read an article about it and it was a woman who was riding her bike, near the range who
    reported a fire on the range. (No shooters were around) however this woman was a rabid anti-gunner
    by what she said.
    Its my thinking she started the fire just to stop the shooters from being there.
    What are the odds of a 1/2 second spark, starting a fire even on the hottest day ?
    You have more of a chance, with broken glass bottles, then a Ricochet .
    I've been shooting over 50+ years and never even heard of that happening, and never seen it happen
    even when being on a range with 12 shooters and weeds Literally knee high in June.
    Its sad this agenda to stop our shooting areas is just another way to "Regulate our right to target practice".

    Robin47

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