Milwaukee Anti-Gun Stories Reporters To Have On-Line Chat Friday 12/17 @ 1:00 PM

Flipper said:

http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/112045144.html

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I didn't know what you were talking about at first with the thread title but I found it on the left side of the article you linked and smacked myself. Here's the link to ask the reporters a question:
http://www.jsonline.com/news/111960434.html

Don't buy a "Pretty" gun

I have to admit I have..... see my avatar.

from the MJS chat on how not to be identified as a straw purchaser:

Gun stores owners have made various suggestions to us of how to deter straw buyers. Obviously, if a person admits that he or she is buying a gun for someone else or buys a gun that another person picks out, store clerks would deny that sale. But some owners we have spoken to say responsible dealers can go further. For instance, they suggest constantly checking the parking lot to see if people are waiting in the car, banning cell phone use in the stores and closely questioning the potential buyer, especially if it is someone who is not knowledgeable about firearms. For instance, there was a case in Milwaukee recently were an elderly woman asked to buy a gun. When asked what kind, she said she wanted a "pretty" one. Some dealers we have spoken to said that would be a strong indication of a straw purchase.

Flipper said:

I have to admit I have..... see my avatar.

from the MJS chat on how not to be identified as a straw purchaser:

Gun stores owners have made various suggestions to us of how to deter straw buyers. Obviously, if a person admits that he or she is buying a gun for someone else or buys a gun that another person picks out, store clerks would deny that sale. But some owners we have spoken to say responsible dealers can go further. For instance, they suggest constantly checking the parking lot to see if people are waiting in the car, banning cell phone use in the stores and closely questioning the potential buyer, especially if it is someone who is not knowledgeable about firearms. For instance, there was a case in Milwaukee recently were an elderly woman asked to buy a gun. When asked what kind, she said she wanted a "pretty" one. Some dealers we have spoken to said that would be a strong indication of a straw purchase.

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The shop I frequent will pull the plug if they smell a rat. They would rather loose a sale than loose the business to the ATF.

Something would realy have to look wrong for a dealer to refuse a sale .lets say 2 guys come in and look at some 1911's and pick one out together,would YOU say no deal ? What if the guy filling out the paper work answers NO to 11a and you question his answer and he says No it's a gift for my Partner Jim here! OOH K then! put Yes in 11a.Perfectly legal.

Now if the same guy said it was for him and didn't say the magic word "GIFT" or they both seemed nervous I would have to say no deal or then he has to fill it out .

But how many straw purchases take place on a daily basis and no one knows the differance. Gun gets sold legally as far as the dealer and nics or handgun hot line is concerned, ser#'s removed or not ,gun sold to gang banger little johnny made some easy money! How do you deter that ?

Amazing ..... Guess Who Wants to Make it More Expensive/Difficult to Buy Guns?

From the MJS Chat:

Advocates for greater gun control include Mayors Against Illegal Guns and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence. Also, police chiefs such as MPD's Ed Flynn and others, are increasingly calling for greater oversight of gun stores.

The reporters keep saying how the ATF's hands are tied when it comes to investigating gun sellers. With these powers??? No Search Warrant???

From http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41206.pdf

Page 10

Compliance Inspections of Licensed Gun Dealers

ATF inspects federal firearms licensees (FFLs) to monitor their compliance with the GCA and to
prevent the diversion of firearms from legal to illegal channels of commerce. In the past, despite
its crime-fighting mission, ATF’s business relationships with the firearms industry and larger gunowning
community have been a perennial source of tension, which from time to time has been the
subject of congressional oversight.

Nevertheless, under current law, ATF Special Agents (SAs) and Industry Operations Investigators (IOIs) are authorized to inspect or examine the inventory and records of an FFL without search warrants under three scenarios:

• in the course of a reasonable inquiry during the course of a criminal investigation
of a person or persons other than the FFL;

• to ensure compliance with the record keeping requirements of the GCA—not
more than once during any 12-month period, or at any time with respect to
records relating to a firearm involved in a criminal investigation that is traced to
the licensee; or

• when such an inspection or examination is required for determining the
disposition of one or more firearms in the course of a criminal investigation.

By inspecting the firearms transfer records that FFLs are required by law to maintain, ATF
investigators are able to trace crime guns from their domestic manufacturer or importer to the first
retail dealer that sold those firearms to persons in the general public, generating leads in homicide
and other criminal investigations.

In addition, by inspecting those records, ATF investigators are often able to uncover evidence of corrupt FFLs transferring firearms “off the books,” straw purchases, and other patterns of suspicious behavior.

A Straw Purchase is A Felony, but Darn It, It Has To Be Proven

BTW: the feds can't make it stick, but if it was a state felony, Wisconsin cops will be able to (with Flynn's troops invading gun stores located in the burbs with the assistance of Boomberg's undercover hit squad.) Sure...

From MJS Chat:

Q: Russell - Straw buying is a federal felony, why isn't that enforced? If the ATF could prove that these stores knowing permitted that, these gun stores would have been shut down. Is there an instance of the ATF ever charging Badger with that?
A: John Diedrich and Ben Poston - Russell, You are correct, straw buying is a federal felony. On a side note, it is misdemeanor in Wisconsin, however there have been recent bills to make it a felony. They have not passed. Federal authorities do charge straw buying cases, but not often. Investigators tell us these are difficult cases because ATF agents must get the defendant to confess to committing the crime. It is even harder to convict a store owner or clerk of knowingly selling a gun to a straw buyer. And in most of these cases, prosecutors need the store's cooperation to bring a case against the suspected straw buyer.

i dont know much about straw purchases; i usually got hay when i owned a horse. we need pro-2nd radio, we need an Open Carry gazete!

The Slippery Slope

BTW: 1) Ability to buy firearm on driver's license 2) Indication that person is firearm owner on driver's license 3) Record of firearms owned kept with diver's license info = mission accomplished = national "an idea worth taking to ATF" firearm registration.

From MJS chat:

Q: S Hooper, Milwaukee WI - All of my questions are moving to the same proposal. Can someone put gun elegibility on the Wisconsin Drivers License? That would help both dealers, and individuals who sell guns in the non-regulated market.
A: John Diedrich and Ben Poston - S. Hooper, That is an interesting proposal. In our conversations with law enforcement and prosecutors, both locally and nationally, we know they are looking for new ways to stem the flow of illegal firearms. They are seeking partners in the firearms industry for new ideas and strategies along these lines. This may be an idea worth taking to ATF.