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Thread: 2010 House Bill 6053

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    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    2010 House Bill 6053

    Passed the house 12/15/10. If Jenny signs it you will be able to use 10% OC spray to defend yourself and PROPERTY.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(w1f...e=2010-HB-6053
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...0-HIB-6053.pdf
    Last edited by sprinklerguy28; 12-17-2010 at 04:54 PM.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    Passed the house 12/15/10. If Jenny signs it you will be able to use 10% OC spray to defend yourself and PROPERTY.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(w1fd2hyxj3rkc5nazoq1jmfw))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=2010-HB-6053
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...0-HIB-6053.pdf
    At first glance, I was about to say why use pepper spray and possibly not get the job done when I can use my gun and be sure to stop my attacker.. but defending property you say? Now that's a reason to get some pepper spray.

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    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    i just glanced over it. does this bill allow the use of the spray only by those with a CPL? if so, i think it's garbage.
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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellslikemichigan View Post
    i just glanced over it. does this bill allow the use of the spray only by those with a CPL? if so, i think it's garbage.
    Both house and senate bills don't mention a CPL holder at all, so it looks like anyone can use it wherever the use of force is allowed.
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    But can we defend property?

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    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stainless1911 View Post
    But can we defend property?
    I believe so, you can use force to protect property now, just not deadly force.
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    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    I just read the second link provided, I will look over the first one (I have a feeling it will take longer), but the second one basically says, that its only for CPL holders, people that are exempt from CPLs (cops and such), and people who take a safty class on the sparys.
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  8. #8
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...0-HNB-6053.htm

    Sec. 224d. (1) As used in this section and section 224, “self-defense spray or foam device” means a device to which all of the following apply:
    (a) The device is capable of carrying, and ejects, releases, or emits 1 of the following:
    (i) Not more than 35 grams of any combination of orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile and inert ingredients.
    (ii) A solution containing not more than 10% oleoresin capsicum.
    (b) The device does not eject, release, or emit any gas or substance that will temporarily or permanently disable, incapacitate, injure, or harm a person with whom the gas or substance comes in contact, other than the substance described in subdivision (a)(i) or (ii).
    (2) Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person who uses a self-defense spray or foam device to eject, release, or emit orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile or oleoresin capsicum at another person is guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years, or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.
    (3) If a person uses a self-defense spray or foam device during the commission of a crime to eject, release, or emit orthochlorobenzalmalononitrile or oleoresin capsicum or threatens to use a self-defense spray or foam device during the commission of a crime to temporarily or permanently disable another person, the judge who imposes sentence upon a conviction for that crime shall consider the defendant’s use or threatened use of the self-defense spray or foam device as a reason for enhancing the sentence.
    (4) A person shall not sell a self-defense spray or foam device to a minor. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $500.00, or both.
    (5) Subsection (2) does not prohibit either of the following:
    (a) The reasonable use of a self-defense spray or foam device containing not more than 10% oleoresin capsicum by a person who is employed by a county sheriff or a chief of police and who is authorized in writing by the county sheriff or chief of police to carry and use a self-defense spray or foam device and has been trained in the use, effects, and risks of the device, while in performance of his or her official duties.
    (b) The reasonable use of a self-defense spray or foam device containing not more than 10% oleoresin capsicum by a person in the protection of a person or property under circumstances that would justify the person’s use of physical force.
    Guess they took all that crap out of the way along the legislative processe.
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    Regular Member Bailenforcer's Avatar
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    They never passed my taser bill I spent so much time on a few years back, it's still sitting there. I called every member of the Michigan House/Senate and brow beat them over it. The election pretty much destroyed that.


    Quote Originally Posted by sprinklerguy28 View Post
    Passed the house 12/15/10. If Jenny signs it you will be able to use 10% OC spray to defend yourself and PROPERTY.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(w1f...e=2010-HB-6053
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...0-HIB-6053.pdf
    Exo 22:2 "If anyone catches a thief breaking in and hits him so that he dies, he is not guilty of murder.
    Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luk 11:21 "When a strong man, with all his weapons ready, guards his own house, all his belongings are safe.

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran smellslikemichigan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...0-HNB-6053.htm



    Guess they took all that crap out of the way along the legislative processe.
    ok, good, it's nice to see that you don't have to carry proof of training with you at all times to carry the spray. would have been nice if they slipped knives into this bill while they were at it.
    knife preemption is much needed. the second amendment covers more than just firearms.
    Last edited by smellslikemichigan; 12-17-2010 at 09:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venator View Post
    I believe so, you can use force to protect property now, just not deadly force.
    Hope the perp doesn't have asthma.

    I agree SLM

  12. #12
    Regular Member sprinklerguy28's Avatar
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    Signed into law on 12/22/2010.

    You can now use OC spray to defend yourself and property. A slow step in the right direction.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malignity View Post
    At first glance, I was about to say why use pepper spray and possibly not get the job done when I can use my gun and be sure to stop my attacker.. but defending property you say? Now that's a reason to get some pepper spray.

    "Hello, Fox Labs?"
    Before you carry it, make sure you can handle cross contamination from either wind, or an assailant wiping his face and punching you.

    As a cop, with other cops backing you up, it makes sense, because other guys with guns are there if you get taken out of the situations by not being able to see. As an individual who could easily wind up dead if he can't see, it doesn't make sense. A fight is not a gun fight, a pepper spray fight, or a knife fight, a fight is a fight. It's not good to voluntarily get into fights, even if the law allows you to, because to fight is to be at risk of death.

    I would also suggest carefully considering that pepper spray, even the 2% stuff, can jam up, sort of like blood clots clogging arteries, and leave you weaponless. I used to carry pepper spray before I carried guns, then tried to spray myself with it a number of times to see if I could work myself up to handling it. When I realized I couldn't, I quit carrying it.
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    sweet! What about local ordinances though? Its not preempted.

    Michigander is right. A;so, if you have asthma, leave it alone.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    I'm confused on what exactly this is allowing us to do. I don't have a CPL so what does it mean for me? I am now allowed to carry a more powerful pepper spray with safety class training?

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    Regular Member Bikenut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Before you carry it, make sure you can handle cross contamination from either wind, or an assailant wiping his face and punching you.

    As a cop, with other cops backing you up, it makes sense, because other guys with guns are there if you get taken out of the situations by not being able to see. As an individual who could easily wind up dead if he can't see, it doesn't make sense. A fight is not a gun fight, a pepper spray fight, or a knife fight, a fight is a fight. It's not good to voluntarily get into fights, even if the law allows you to, because to fight is to be at risk of death.

    I would also suggest carefully considering that pepper spray, even the 2% stuff, can jam up, sort of like blood clots clogging arteries, and leave you weaponless. I used to carry pepper spray before I carried guns, then tried to spray myself with it a number of times to see if I could work myself up to handling it. When I realized I couldn't, I quit carrying it.


    This is why I consider OC/pepper spray more of a problem than a solution to a problem. All it takes is for the wind to be blowing towards you from behind the bad guy and ... congratulations... you just sprayed yourself along with the bad guy. Or, as Michigander pointed out, wrastlin' with the bad guy only serves to spread the spray onto you.

    Both of which make it easier for the bad guy to win.

    So... to my way of thinking... those who carry guns do not, not ever, get into those weenie measuring things called fist fights. Those who carry guns do not get into fights of any kind... at any time... for any reason... unless it is a fight to defend life/prevent great bodily harm or sexual penetration.

    And if the the only fights a person gets involved in are fights to defend a gun is more reliable and more effective than any spray.
    Gun control isn't about the gun at all.... for those who want gun control it is all about their own fragile egos, their own lack of self esteem, their own inner fears, and most importantly... their own desire to dominate others. And an openly carried gun is a slap in the face to all of those things.

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    Regular Member xmanhockey7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikenut View Post


    This is why I consider OC/pepper spray more of a problem than a solution to a problem. All it takes is for the wind to be blowing towards you from behind the bad guy and ... congratulations... you just sprayed yourself along with the bad guy. Or, as Michigander pointed out, wrastlin' with the bad guy only serves to spread the spray onto you.

    Both of which make it easier for the bad guy to win.

    So... to my way of thinking... those who carry guns do not, not ever, get into those weenie measuring things called fist fights. Those who carry guns do not get into fights of any kind... at any time... for any reason... unless it is a fight to defend life/prevent great bodily harm or sexual penetration.

    And if the the only fights a person gets involved in are fights to defend a gun is more reliable and more effective than any spray.
    I try to deescalate any and all situations. The first step is ignoring any idiots. Sometimes though they can't be ignored. At which time I try to calm them down and resolve the situation with only words. The next is getting physical with the person if I have to. The last resort is using my firearm which is one thing I never never never never never never want to use. Of course any part can be skipped based on what they do like pulling out a knife at which point I'd use my firearm.

  18. #18
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Before you carry it, make sure you can handle cross contamination from either wind, or an assailant wiping his face and punching you.

    As a cop, with other cops backing you up, it makes sense, because other guys with guns are there if you get taken out of the situations by not being able to see. As an individual who could easily wind up dead if he can't see, it doesn't make sense. A fight is not a gun fight, a pepper spray fight, or a knife fight, a fight is a fight. It's not good to voluntarily get into fights, even if the law allows you to, because to fight is to be at risk of death.

    I would also suggest carefully considering that pepper spray, even the 2% stuff, can jam up, sort of like blood clots clogging arteries, and leave you weaponless. I used to carry pepper spray before I carried guns, then tried to spray myself with it a number of times to see if I could work myself up to handling it. When I realized I couldn't, I quit carrying it.
    Would the foam sprays be better?
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    Cool

    spray? i have the perfect spray, starting fluid & a bic !

  20. #20
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malignity View Post
    So do you need a CPL to carry the 10%?
    I'd like to get some for my wife, but she doesn't have and refuses to get a CPL. Just curious.
    here's the law. http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...10-PA-0365.pdf

    It says a person, no mention of a CPL. So she does not need a CPL.
    Last edited by Venator; 12-30-2010 at 10:19 PM.
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    I would use as much of it as I can carry to defend my property since its allowed and we can't shoot them yet. And rest assured, I'll do my level best to half drown the POS I see screwing with my car or whatever.

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    Regular Member malignity's Avatar
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    Today I contacted the owner of Fox Labs (Ed, I believe his name was?) and asked them if they had any intentions on making a 10% spray with this new law passing. The conversation was a bit bumpy at first, but to make a long story short, the answer is absolutely not.

    After about a 20 minute conversation with him, he informed me that higher capsicum does NOT mean hotter chemical. With higher capsicum, you get more impurities, and with more impurities, it takes longer to work. He kept referring to his chart on his website, and told me to read it, but as of yet I'm not able to find it. He also stated that EVERY single PD in the area uses Fox Labs, and will continue to do so, because there's nothing close to 5.3 million SHU out there; and truth be told, I believe him. Being that I'm a big time hot sauce guy and own a 4 million SHU hot sauce, I know exactly how bad even 4 million can be. One drop on my tongue will practically cripple me; a 6'1, 330lb individual, let alone atomized spray in my face at 1.3 million SHU hotter.

    Even though this law has passed, sounds like I'll be sticking with my 2% Fox Labs. I'm no expert, but the owner of Fox Labs is, and after the conversation with him, I know he's not just marketing his product, but knows his stuff. Seems like that's the one to get.


    After just doing some quick research, here's some things I've found:

    Fox Labs (used by local PD): 5.3M SHU
    Freeze +P (used by MSP): 2M SHU
    Sabre: 2M SHU
    Mace: 2M SHU
    Def Tech: 7,500 SHU (lol.)

    Get Fox Labs if you plan on getting pepper spray.
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  23. #23
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    Even mean green is only 6% but is is nasty stuff and the best part is the dye that marks the perp.
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  24. #24
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Here is the law.

    http://www.legislature.mi.gov/docume...10-PA-0365.pdf (bam)

    No CPL is required. You must be 18.

    From personal experience I always suggest, unless you are "trained" in its use, to only carry the foam. Also, I do not suggest the ones with a "safety" on them, I just gave me LE cans the women, and my mother for carry. They are now legal, no top, no safety, just carry them in a case, either Velcro or a snap.

    Also some important things, if you plan on carrying OC, ALWAYS carry baby whips with you! IF you ever use it, immediately wipe your hands throughly with them. Also take off any clothing it may have touched immediately, wash them alone, with hot water, and a 2liter of name brand Classic Coke. Now if you ever do get sprayed accidentally or on purpose, water usually isn't enough, wash all effected areas (except your actually eyes, unless you can handle it) with dawn dish soap. Then wash your eyes with tear-free baby shampoo/soap. You will still be burning for a little bit, but trust me it takes away most of the burn, and limits it to 30-60 minutes instead of several hours or even days. If you have an allergic reaction (blisters, horrible rash), then goto the hospital immediately!

    Also (and this may come up if it is used in a rape situation) if any of it somehow ends up in ANY private areas, you MUST goto the hospital immediately, in extreme cases it has been fatal, in private areas.

    Good luck and carry on!

    If you can not find any good stuff, then goto a police store, like Metro, they used to just sell to police, but even if they don't know the new law, print a copy of it, and show it to them.
    Last edited by eastmeyers; 01-02-2011 at 07:53 PM.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
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  25. #25
    Regular Member autosurgeon's Avatar
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    This law has a MAJOR failing.

    It restricts you to 37 grams of active and inert ingredients. That works out to 1.3 ounces however none of the full strength sprays or foams are available in anything under 1.5 ounces or 42.5 grams

    Methinks again we have been screwed by our idiot lawmakers!
    Anything I post may be my opinion and not the law... you are responsible to do your own verification.

    Blackstone (1753-1765) maintains that "the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."

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