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Thread: Australia Crazy. Police handcuff pull guns on 12 year old boy playing with toy gun.

  1. #1
    Regular Member Haz.'s Avatar
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    Australia Crazy. Police handcuff pull guns on 12 year old boy playing with toy gun.

    This incident clearly just shows how paranoid we have become in the land Down Under since the firearms ban.

    Remembering that I owned a single shot 22 cal. rifle and went hunting with my dad at age 12. This young lad made a toy rifle out of a piece of wooden curtain rod and black duct tape and was playing in his yard when arrested, handcuffed and had guns drawn on him. Haz.

    "The "weapon" was a broken 1m-long curtain pole with black duct tape,"
    .


    http://www.news.com.au/national/poli...-1225973058056

    National.

    Police pull gun on, arrest boy, 12 By Nadja Hainke From: Northern Territory News December 18, 2010 7:10AM Increase
    Tom Herbert was arrested by police for playing with a hand-made toy gun.
    POLICE pulled their guns on a 12-year-old boy playing in a yard in the Northern Territory because they thought he was hiding behind a fence with a rifle.
    The "weapon" was a broken 1m-long curtain pole with black duct tape, the Northern Territory News reports.

    Tom had to be treated for shock at hospital as a result of the incident.

    His mother Terry Mahoney said she was devastated.

    "He was just a normal kid playing with a fake rifle," she said.

    She said Tom had been playing with the toy weapon outside a house in Palmerston last week, when he was cornered by police.

    At least five officers sped to the scene in two paddy wagons and a blue patrol car.


    ..They jumped out of their vehicles, two of them drawing their guns, and urged the boy to drop his weapon.

    He was told to sit down on the footpath and then a police officer put a hand on his shoulder and pushed him down," Ms Mahoney said.

    "I believe he ended up with handcuffs on one wrist."

    Police confirmed yesterday they had responded to a call saying a person was "hiding behind a fence" with a weapon.

    They said police guns were drawn but dropped instantly when it was clear there was no threat. Reports of the boy having been handcuffed were not confirmed.

    The incident happened only days after the small family was made homeless.

    "It just means another trauma that Tom has to deal with," Ms Mahoney said.
    ..

    Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national/poli...#ixzz18PKM2jIJ

  2. #2
    McX
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    i realize it's not our 'land mass', but they wonder why kids grow up to dislike cops, when they over react and treat someone like that. it puts a scar on the kid for life. i know i've got my share. me and a buddy were talking the other day, and compared all the open carriers we know. we found about 50 to 60% had their stories to tell, their scars. the cops better figure out quick how to quit making enemies out of the general public, lest we turn and walk the other way when their time of need comes.

  3. #3
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    Angry

    I'm an Aussie and I do not like to say this but sue the living **** out if the cops if they had any brains they would have just walked up to the biy to see what he was doing. No I once brought a rifle in Sydney on George St and it was wrapped in paper and I walk down the main st and not one thing was done
    A gun Owner Is A Citizen
    Anyone Else is a Subject

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    When I was 12 my friend and I had been approached rapidly by police in Maryland with their guns drawn and pointed at us after we were playing with firecrackers in a storm drain.

    We weren't cuffed but we were held at gunpoint initially, put up against a fence and searched in which they found our firecrackers. Though they were illegal to have in Maryland, the police took us home and released us to our parents which is probably pretty rare nowadays in that state. Apparently, someone in the neighborhood called in and reported hearing gunshots from our location. I definitely can't blame the officers for taking the precautions they did.

    If they actually believed the 12 year old in this situation was armed with a firearm in his hands, they would be crazy to approach him without their own weapons at the ready. They were told the boy was armed with a weapon. Lucky nothing more tragic had happened but I really don't see the fault of the police officers that others appear to be finding in what I am reading in that post.

    I am also assuming that it isn't legal for him to be carrying around a rifle in that location or at his age as well.
    Last edited by MK; 12-19-2010 at 01:33 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by MK View Post
    SNIP We weren't cuffed but we were held at gunpoint initially, put up against a fence and searched in which they found our firecrackers. Though they were illegal to have in Maryland, the police took us home and released us to our parents which is probably pretty rare nowadays in that state. Apparently, someone in the neighborhood called in and reported hearing gunshots from our location. I definitely can't blame the officers for taking the precautions they did.
    I can. What a bunch of posturing tough guys. Holding two kids at gun point. Complete lack of judgement. Totally out of touch.

  6. #6
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    Citizen,

    In their defense, it was an ASSAULT STICK. They could have gotten splinters when they disarmed the kid.

  7. #7
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    The way I heard it, it was a fully automatic assault stick!

    (next...)
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
    The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort & convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge & controversy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
    Citizenship is a verb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 31:17
    She dresses herself with strength and makes her arms strong.

  8. #8
    McX
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    The way I heard it, it was a fully automatic assault stick!

    (next...)
    was it painted orange?!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by McX View Post
    was it painted orange?!
    Only the tip, to disguise it as a toy.
    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

  10. #10
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I can. What a bunch of posturing tough guys. Holding two kids at gun point. Complete lack of judgement. Totally out of touch.
    Yes it is, on YOUR part.

    Until they can determine otherwise, they HAVE to treat this as a dangerous situation.

    Once it is determined that the "danger" does not exist, then is when they showed the judgment many today refuse to show even if they have the ability.

    It is obvious that you have NO IDEA of what a LEO faces on a nearly daily basis in some of the more populated jurisdictions.

    Until you understand, it would behoove you to remain silent on this particular subject.

    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 12-19-2010 at 02:11 PM.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  11. #11
    Regular Member HandyHamlet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    Yes it is, on YOUR part.

    Until they can determine otherwise, they HAVE to treat this as a dangerous situation.
    You are absolutely correct Sir.

    They should have tased the little bastich too.

    Just to be sure.

    "Don't interfere with anything in the Constitution. That must be maintained, for it is the only safeguard of our liberties."
    Abraham Lincoln

    "Some time ago, a bunch of lefties defied the law by dancing at the Jefferson Memorial, resulting in their arrests. Last week, a bunch of them pulled the same stunt and - using patented Lefist techniques - provoked the Park Police into having to use force to arrest them."
    Alexcabbie

  12. #12
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandyHamlet View Post
    You are absolutely correct Sir.

    They should have tased the little bastich too.

    Just to be sure.

    Unless you are being sarcastic, it would behoove you to heed the advice I previously gave.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    Yes it is, on YOUR part.

    Until they can determine otherwise, they HAVE to treat this as a dangerous situation.

    Once it is determined that the "danger" does not exist, then is when they showed the judgment many today refuse to show even if they have the ability.

    It is obvious that you have NO IDEA of what a LEO faces on a nearly daily basis in some of the more populated jurisdictions.

    Until you understand, it would behoove you to remain silent on this particular subject.



    Thanks, HandyHamlet. Perfect way to show the absurdity of OldCurly's position.

    Lets dissassemble the cop-kissing viewpoint.

    Starting with the hidden, undisclosed premise. That near total certainty is needed no matter how remote the possibility. Hogwash. Cops and robbers is a dangerous game. If they have to assault 12yr olds in order to "feel safe", they don't have the constitution for the job.

    Just because some cops somewhere at some time have experienced grave danger does not mean that this kid is a real threat. Kids hunt. Kids shoot cans. Kids play cops and robbers. All much more likely than a 12 yr old sniper.

    Just because police claim it is necessary to point guns at 12yr olds and prone them out does not mean it is. As I mentioned, out of touch. So focused on the stories of dead cops and shot cops, they forget (possibly deliberately, too) that there is the rest of the world outside their insular little thoughts.

  14. #14
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Could Joe Schmoe run up and hold a gun to the kids head? And treat kids this way? Than the police can't either. Especially when they are supposed to be more restricted as officers on the use of force. Excusing someone's actions just because they wear a badge is very anti-liberty.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    A picture of the assault stick would be helpful. Holding a black stick as compared to holding a rifle is a bit of a stretch.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haz. View Post
    This incident clearly just shows how paranoid we have become in the land Down Under since the firearms ban.
    What's that quote? "Unfamiliarity breeds contempt?"

    Or was it "ignorance breeds idiocy?" Certainly their response falls into the latter category...

    If they had the familiarity with a right to keep and bear arms our law enforcement officers have here in Colorado, they wouldn't be terrorizing and traumatizing poor homeless kids.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  17. #17
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    It would seem that we are dealing with people here who do not like my opinion.

    TS. My opinion is based on real world experience. Yours is not. Nuff said.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    It would seem that we are dealing with people here who do not like my opinion.

    TS. My opinion is based on real world experience. Yours is not. Nuff said.

    That's an arrogant haughty thing to say.

    But you are entitled to your opinion based on your narrow minded viewpoint.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    It would seem that we are dealing with people here who do not like my opinion.
    You're not the only one on this forum who's been there or done that, OCW, and no, some of us do not like you opinion.

    Enough said. We still don't like you opinion. But, we will respect it.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  20. #20
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    That's an arrogant haughty thing to say.

    But you are entitled to your opinion based on your narrow minded viewpoint.

    It isn't funny as you intimate. It isn't arrogant or haughty. It is as Joe Friday used to say "Just the facts, Ma'am."

    It is most definitely not narrow minded. It seems that I am more well informed than those who object to my opinion. It is they who are not only narrow minded but closed minded. IE, unwilling to learn from those who have more information and experience from which to base their judgments.

    But then you are entitled to your weak indefensible opinion.

    BTW, It also seems that no one picked up on the fact that I stated arresting the 12 year old for having a toy was not a smart thing to do. It was really the wrong thing to do. Once a 'threat" is determined to not be a threat, you do NOT continue treating the situation as a threat.

    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 12-21-2010 at 04:40 PM.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  21. #21
    Regular Member Kloutier's Avatar
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    Turning into a flame war. Please stay on topic.

    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.
    just let it go. Its the Internet and people with have different feelings on some topics.
    Last edited by Kloutier; 12-21-2010 at 05:01 PM. Reason: adding quote.

  22. #22
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Damn I guess all our experiences aren't real world......

    Thats a mighty big asssumption and an arrogant and haughty thing to say...should be more open minded, just my opinion.

    Ive been through more than most people, but I don't assume I know more because of it.
    Last edited by sudden valley gunner; 12-21-2010 at 09:23 PM.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  23. #23
    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldCurlyWolf View Post
    BTW, It also seems that no one picked up on the fact that I stated arresting the 12 year old for having a toy was not a smart thing to do. It was really the wrong thing to do. Once a 'threat" is determined to not be a threat, you do NOT continue treating the situation as a threat.

    You're right, I missed it. But I certainly agree with you, here! That was dumb of the cops to continue to prosecute the situation based on their adrenaline level, instead of reality.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

  24. #24
    Regular Member OldCurlyWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    You're right, I missed it. But I certainly agree with you, here! That was dumb of the cops to continue to prosecute the situation based on their adrenaline level, instead of reality.
    Finally.

    They have to treat the threat as "REAL" until proved otherwise. That is hitting the scene with weapons drawn, etc.

    Once the scene is fully assessed and it is determined that no weapons were involved except the ones the PD brought, it is time to let brains override procedure.

    No throwing 12 year olds without a weapon into cuffs and into jail and bringing charges yet? STUPID.

    Last edited by OldCurlyWolf; 12-23-2010 at 10:42 PM.
    I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them.

    Politicians should serve two terms, one in office and one in prison.(borrowed from RioKid)

  25. #25
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    So I guess everyday Joe/Jane Schmoe should run up on these scenes guns at ready, adrenaline pumping?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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