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Thread: Royal Oak Needs Help Understanding MI Firearm Preemption Law...

  1. #1
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Royal Oak Needs Help Understanding MI Firearm Preemption Law...

    Alright class! Let's see if we can help Royal Oak out in understanding MI Firearm Preemption Law before we have to make them stand in the corner... AGAIN!

    Royal Oak is FINALLY getting around to changing their Civil Emergencies Ordinance to be in line with the MI Firearm Preemption Law. It appears that they are having trouble and need YOUR special assistance.

    Let's start with a little remedial reference learning:
    Quote Originally Posted by MI Firearm Preemption Law
    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.

    Sec. 2. A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
    OK, should be simple enough! Wait a second, maybe not!

    http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal...220-348-10.pdf

    OK class, post where they gone off the tracks and/or missed the boat (unless this is allowed by MI State or Federal Law). Be sure to show your work. Extra credit awarded to anyone who can provide better wording for this ordinance change!

    BTW - someone may need to be there on 12/20/2010 while OC'ing to help them out!

  2. #2
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    the both fix! then break it on the same PAGE! whats the @#%%%^!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

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    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    see cat at left!!!!!!
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

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    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David.W.Gillam
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quick summery
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  5. #5
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Are you going to the next meeting PD? If so let me know.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  6. #6
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Quick summery
    Cliff notes eh?

  7. #7
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Are you going to the next meeting PD? If so let me know.
    Affirmative, unless I can get the City Attorney to explain via email why he did not recommend the other 2 possible orders be changed and get him to change them.

  8. #8
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Cliff notes eh?
    Hey some people like Cliff Notes!
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  9. #9
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Affirmative, unless I can get the City Attorney to explain via email why he did not recommend the other 2 possible orders be changed and get him to change them.
    Well make sure you post your plans, and if not at least, PM, call, or text me, and I will head up with you if you would like.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Well make sure you post your plans, and if not at least, PM, call, or text me, and I will head up with you if you would like.
    Please let me know as well. I'm in the area, and would be happy to show up, and help out.

  11. #11
    Centurion
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    I stopped reading just after they quote the law saying they CAN'T and then they say that they will just won't seize the weapons.... BUT DOES THAT MEAN THEY WILL CITE FOR A VIOLATION? BUT NOT SEIZE? But only if it is declared an emergency!

  12. #12
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    I stopped reading just after they quote the law saying they CAN'T and then they say that they will just won't seize the weapons.... BUT DOES THAT MEAN THEY WILL CITE FOR A VIOLATION? BUT NOT SEIZE? But only if it is declared an emergency!
    Orders 7 & 8 should have been changed as well, illegal due to MI Firearm Preemption Law (MCL 123.1102). The "do not seize" change matches what is in the MI State Law for EMERGENCY POWERS OF GOVERNOR.

    http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-10-31

  13. #13
    Regular Member NHCGRPR45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eastmeyers View Post
    Hey some people like Cliff Notes!
    i like cliff notes,,and generally like cliffs in general. fun to jump off of, and rappel or climb! good clean fun
    But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. Declaration of Independence July 4, 1776

    Michigan Concealed Pistol Instructor. Cost 80.00 With advanced techniques included free. PM for more information!

  14. #14
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    X-tra credit ----> see also MI Constitution Article 1 section 6.

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    What time, and where is it on Monday? I assume it's in City hall, so NON-CPL OC is acceptable.
    Last edited by Harry25; 12-18-2010 at 01:39 AM.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
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    Why is it so hard for them to understand that they have zero authority when it comes to regulating firearms or ammunition in any way.

    Unless of course they are enforcing state law.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  17. #17
    Regular Member Master Control's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDinDetroit View Post
    Alright class! Let's see if we can help Royal Oak out in understanding MI Firearm Preemption Law before we have to make them stand in the corner... AGAIN!

    Royal Oak is FINALLY getting around to changing their Civil Emergencies Ordinance to be in line with the MI Firearm Preemption Law. It appears that they are having trouble and need YOUR special assistance.

    Let's start with a little remedial reference learning:


    OK, should be simple enough! Wait a second, maybe not!

    http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal...220-348-10.pdf

    OK class, post where they gone off the tracks and/or missed the boat (unless this is allowed by MI State or Federal Law). Be sure to show your work. Extra credit awarded to anyone who can provide better wording for this ordinance change!

    BTW - someone may need to be there on 12/20/2010 while OC'ing to help them out!
    Master Control will be doing "Taylor" the 20th & 21st, but pm me your phone number just in case I can make both.
    "Liberty's too precious a thing to be buried in books...Men should hold it up in front of them every single day of their lives and say: 'I'm free to think and to speak. My ancestors couldn't. I can. And my children will."
    ,,, So Mote Be


    Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.-- JC

  18. #18
    Regular Member eastmeyers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry25 View Post
    What time, and where is it on Monday? I assume it's in City hall, so NON-CPL OC is acceptable.
    It is the first building immediately south of the Library, they share a parking lot. So if you head east on 11mile past Main St, it is your first right. If you are headed west, you can turn left on Troy st (light before Main), then make the next right, then the next right again.

    And you can OC with or without a CPL. If you don't have a CPL PLEASE just make sure you know the laws and don't carry in a vehicle.
    "Bam, I like saying bam when I cite something, in fact I think I shall do this from here on out, as long as I remember.
    Bam!" - eastmeyers

    "Then said he to them, But now he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his sack: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
    Luke 22:36
    God Bless

  19. #19
    Regular Member onestar 50's Avatar
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    State Emergency

    When I wrote my congressmen in Lansing about fire arms and state of emergency in michigan He told me there was a law that was pass and sign that under emergency that all register fire arms cannot be take under emergency.

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    Quote Originally Posted by onestar 50 View Post
    When I wrote my congressmen in Lansing about fire arms and state of emergency in michigan He told me there was a law that was pass and sign that under emergency that all register fire arms cannot be take under emergency.
    Congressmen? They have nothing to do with state law - focus on contacting the rep of your city or state re city or state laws, respectively.

  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Congressmen? They have nothing to do with state law - focus on contacting the rep of your city or state re city or state laws, respectively.
    I'm sure he meant his state reps. The state does have a "congress" of lawmakers though so his statment is correct..
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Regular Member TheQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike View Post
    Congressmen? They have nothing to do with state law - focus on contacting the rep of your city or state re city or state laws, respectively.
    I'm thought the same thing, but I'm assuming he meant state rep or senator since he said: in Lansing...
    Call for a cop, call for an ambulance, and call for a pizza. See who shows up first.

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    What time is the meeting supposed to take place, and will anyone else be showing up?

  24. #24
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    The following is what I sent to the Royal Oak City Officials on this item:

    The Honorable Mayor, Jim Ellison
    Donald E. Johnson, City Manager
    David Gillam, City Attorney
    Michael Andrzejak, City Commissioner
    Patricia Capello, City Commissioner
    Terry Drinkwine, City Commissioner
    David J. Poulton, City Commissioner
    Jim Rasor, City Commissioner
    Charles Semchena, City Commissioner
    City of Royal Oak, MI

    I am writing you today in regards to Commission Letter #348-10. I have included information provided in previous communications.

    Thank you for addressing the Royal Oak Civil Emergencies Ordinance (251-5). I have concerns with proposed changes as shown on page three (3) of this letter, detailed by the following:

    1. Proposed Ordinance Provision 251-5 A7 (previously 251-5 G) conflict with Michigan Firearm Preemption Law (MCL 123.1102) in terms of Sale and Transfer of Firearms and Ammunition.

    2. Proposed Ordinance Provision 251-5 A8 (previously 251-5 H) is in conflict with Michigan Firearm Preemption Law (MCL 123.1102) in terms of Sale and Transfer of Firearms and Ammunition.

    For reference purposes, I have included the text of the Michigan Firearm Preemption Law (MCL 123.1102):

    123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
    A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.

    While I applaud the change to bring Royal Oak Civil Emergencies Ordinance (251-5) into line with what is allowable under the Michigan Emergency Powers of Governor (MCL 10.31), I believe the original conflict raised with Michigan Firearm Preemption Law (MCL 123.1102) has yet to be addressed.

    Please contact me with any questions about this information.

    Sincerely,

    PDinDetroit

    cc:
    Christopher M Jahnke

  25. #25
    Regular Member PDinDetroit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harry25 View Post
    What time is the meeting supposed to take place, and will anyone else be showing up?
    Meeting Date: 12/20/2010
    Meeting Time: 7:30 pm
    Meeting Location: 211 S Williams St, on the 3rd Floor, Room 315
    Meeting Agenda: http://www.ci.royal-oak.mi.us/portal...ission-meeting

    Map Link: http://mapq.st/9-Z3JT

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