Why you should carry with a round in the chamber

Aaron1124 · Dec 17, 2010

I am sure this has been previously posted, but I haven't seen it around. I am sure a lot of you are familiar with the "Tueller Drill", also known as the "21 Foot Rule", meaning that the MINIMUM distance an attacker with a blade has to inflict a mortal blow before you can register the threat, react, draw your firearm, and fire. No way you'd be able to do this if you do not already have a round chambered.

A man with a knife at a distance is a legitimate threat, not to be taken lightly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0kI9-bD5Bo&feature=player_embedded

Meatbag79 · Dec 17, 2010

I have to disagree for one reason. My carry gun is a Glock 23, and as such, has no safety. I love my gun; it's excellent... but if I had one chambered, there is a strong possibility of a mishap, and that's not something I can afford. I guess it depends on the holster as well. I would have less of a problem with it if my holster was composite or kydex or something, but I'm a big boy, and I pretty much rely on nylon holster for comfort and draw speed.

Aaron1124 · Dec 17, 2010

It depends on the firearm. There are some semi auto's that have a hairpin trigger when there's a chambered round. That would make me a little uneasy if I were unfamiliar with the firearm, or if my holster didn't properly secure the trigger.

I have absolutely no problem carrying revolvers, as long as the hammer is not back.

SFCRetired · Dec 17, 2010

I have a Ruger P89 that I carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber. It is a decocker and the hammer is blocked from the firing pin until the trigger is pulled. That is the only safety on that weapon. I am very comfortable carrying it like that.

My other weapon is a Springfield Armory 1911 which I carry cocked and locked as it was meant to be carried. Again, I am comfortable carrying it like that.

The key is knowing your weapon and practicing with it until you are completely comfortable with it. That does not mean you quit practicing. Neither do you get complacent.

Always be aware of where your trigger finger is and where the muzzle is pointed.

I don't know enough about Glocks and some of the other pistols to say anything other than I don't think I could ever get comfortable with one from what I have seen. That is not to say that they are not good pistols; they just are not for me.

eye95 · Dec 17, 2010

Meatbag79 said:
I have to disagree for one reason. My carry gun is a Glock 23, and as such, has no safety. I love my gun; it's excellent... but if I had one chambered, there is a strong possibility of a mishap, and that's not something I can afford. I guess it depends on the holster as well. I would have less of a problem with it if my holster was composite or kydex or something, but I'm a big boy, and I pretty much rely on nylon holster for comfort and draw speed.

I am unfamiliar with Glocks, however, while it is likely that it has no switch called "a safety," it surely has safety devices that allow for carry with a chambered round. There are scads of different safety devices that handguns employ, such as grip safeties, double triggers, double-action triggers, decockers, etc. Surely your Glock has at least one of these.

Super Trucker · Dec 17, 2010

Meatbag79 said:
I have to disagree for one reason. My carry gun is a Glock 23, and as such, has no safety. I love my gun; it's excellent... but if I had one chambered, there is a strong possibility of a mishap, and that's not something I can afford. I guess it depends on the holster as well. I would have less of a problem with it if my holster was composite or kydex or something, but I'm a big boy, and I pretty much rely on nylon holster for comfort and draw speed.

Keep in mind you are carrying an expensive brick if you do not have a round chambered. If you are unable to chamber a round quick enough and end up on the losing side of the deal, your unloaded gun will now be in the possession of the turd that took you out.

When people ask me about my opinion of carrying a loaded gun, I simply tell them that if they are scared of the loaded gun, please leave it at home. When they have taken time to be properly trained and understand that guns don't magically fire then they have the mindset to be a responsible person.

I am not knocking your choice, so please don't take offense. I am offering a thought you mind not have considered.

The number one safety on any gun, is between the owners ears.

Dreamer · Dec 18, 2010

eye95 said:
I am unfamiliar with Glocks, however, while it is likely that it has no switch called "a safety," it surely has safety devices that allow for carry with a chambered round. There are scads of different safety devices that handguns employ, such as grip safeties, double triggers, double-action triggers, decockers, etc. Surely your Glock has at least one of these.

No, actually the Glock has NO external safety switch at all, nor does it have a "decocker", nor is it truly DAO.

The Glock has what they call a "safe action trigger". What this means is that when a cop shoots himself in the ass or shoots an innocent bystander due to a ND, he will be safe from prosecution, sanction, or restriction. But when a citizen has an ND with a Glock, the system will spring into action to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.. </sarcasm>

Actually, I own and carry a Glock 36. I carried it for two months without a round in the tube, because I wasn't terribly comfortable with it in the Serpa, knowing what I know about Glocks (I worked for the DOJ in the DC area during the time when DC Metro PD was switching over from revolvers to Glocks, and they had over 100 NDs in the first few years of carrying the Glock). But now that I've owned it for several months, and put several hundred rounds through it, I feel safe with the firearm's "safety" mechanisms, the holster, and my abilities to handle it safely.

The key to handling a Glock with "one in the chamber" is training. If you keep your booger hook off the bang switch while drawing and re-holstering a Glock, it's just as safe as any other firearm. The grip angle and trigger geometry are SUBSTANTIALLY different from a 1911, and manipulating a Glock in and out of a holster requires a slight modification in trigger-finger position when using a Serpa. A few thousand presentation drills will imprint this difference on your muscle memory though...

All that said, I would NEVER leave a "hot" Glock in an unsecured location in my house. It's either on my hip, or unloaded and locked up. The functionality of the Glock makes it just TOO prone to ND in untrained hands to be trusted in unsupervised or untrained hands.

rotorhead · Dec 18, 2010

Meatbag79 said:
I have to disagree for one reason. My carry gun is a Glock 23, and as such, has no safety. I love my gun; it's excellent... but if I had one chambered, there is a strong possibility of a mishap, and that's not something I can afford. I guess it depends on the holster as well. I would have less of a problem with it if my holster was composite or kydex or something, but I'm a big boy, and I pretty much rely on nylon holster for comfort and draw speed.

Your Glock does have a safety, it's built into the trigger (as with all Glocks that I am aware of). It may not have a separate safety switch, but it does have the primary safety built in to the trigger system making it virtually mechanically impossible for a unintentional firing. You literally have to pull the trigger for a round to go off- that is your safety. You can bump it, slap it, drop it, or look at it mean all you want, but it should not fire unless you pull the trigger in a manner that first depresses the safety mechanism.

A stock Glock out of the case will have roughly 5.5- 6.5 lbs psi of a trigger pull unless you go and do some filing or shaving. If someone manipulates the trigger system in such a way then they run the risk of a round going off before the intended minimum pull- but still, a round should not fire without the built in safety mechanism being depressed on the trigger. That means you have to physically put your finger on the trigger and pull it for it to fire. Without that physical motion, there is (supposedly) no way for it to fire.

Due to this, the safety for Glocks and many of the newer (past ten years or so) composite pistols is actually your awareness more than anything else. If people develop the habit of never touching the trigger unless the gun is aimed at the intended target and they are mentally and physically prepared to fire at that moment, there is no way for the round to go off.

Dreamer · Dec 18, 2010

rotorhead said:
Your Glock does have a safety, it's built into the trigger (as with all Glocks that I am aware of).

The Glock "safety mechanism" is like building a Porsche 911 Turbo with no brake pedal, and then selling it to people saying "as long as you don't press the gas pedal, you'll never run into anything..."

virginiatuck · Dec 18, 2010

SAP or DAR?

If you're uncomfortable carrying a semi-automatic pistol in a ready-to-fire state, would you feel the same about a double-action revolver? If not, why not carry one or two of those instead?

sultan62 · Dec 18, 2010

I'm not a big fan of the style of safety on the Glock. I got a Springfield XD45, and made sure to get one with the thumb safety for that reason. It also comes with the trigger safety (which I hate) and the beavertail safety, which I like. I really prefer having the thumb safety though.

Just my $0.02.

since9 · Dec 18, 2010

Meatbag79 said:
I have to disagree for one reason. My carry gun is a Glock 23, and as such, has no safety.

This is incorrect.

1. It has a 5.5 lb trigger pull, close to that of nearly all revolvers. It would take a decisive trigger pull to make it fire. Provided you keep it properly holstered and refrain from hot-dogging with it while it's loaded, you're unlikely to accidentally discharge the weapon.

2. Your firearm doesn't have one safety. It actually has a three-tiered afety system:

"Glock pistols are designed with three independent safety mechanisms to prevent accidental discharge. The system, designated "Safe Action" by Glock, consists of an external integrated trigger safety and two automatic internal safeties: a firing pin safety and a drop safety. The external safety is a small inner lever contained in the trigger. Pressing the lever activates the trigger bar and sheet metal connector. The firing pin safety is a solid hardened steel pin that, in the secured state, blocks the firing pin channel (disabling the firing pin in its longitudinal axis). It is pushed upward to release the firing pin for firing only when the trigger is actuated and the safety is pushed up through the backward movement of the trigger bar. The drop safety guides the trigger bar in a ramp that is released only when direct rearward pressure is applied to the trigger. The three safety mechanisms are automatically disengaged one after the other when the trigger is squeezed, and are automatically reactivated when the trigger is released." - Source

I love my gun; it's excellent... but if I had one chambered, there is a strong possibility of a mishap...

No. If you keep it holstered in a retention holster, the liklihood of any sort of accidental discharge is a lot closer to nil than accidentally dropping a live round.

I would have less of a problem with it if my holster was composite or kydex or something, but I'm a big boy, and I pretty much rely on nylon holster for comfort and draw speed.

Examine your holster. Most nylon holsters are woven around a thin but hard plastic form designed to conform to your firearm and protect it from blows.

I'd say you're far safer with one in the chamber than you are with giving a perp an extra two seconds to tackle you, knife you, or shoot you.

Dreamer said:
All that said, I would NEVER leave a "hot" Glock in an unsecured location in my house. It's either on my hip, or unloaded and locked up. The functionality of the Glock makes it just TOO prone to ND in untrained hands to be trusted in unsupervised or untrained hands.

I'd say this pretty much applies to all firearms. The contrary point, however, is that in trained hands, particularly while holstered, it's as safe as any other firearm from accidental discharge.*

I do not consider pulling the trigger of an unholstered firearm to be an "accidental" discharge as per Rule 1: It's always loaded.

1245A Defender · Dec 18, 2010

yeh,,,

thanks 09
im not a clock guy but they are excellent and and safe guns.
reliability and instant safety reset after use.
just like a double action revolver, pick it up, pull the trigger, no muss no fuss.
the real safety is between your ears.
all guns should shoot, when you pull the trigger.
if you cant trust your self around guns that have triggers,
you shouldnt be trusted around guns!

eye95 · Dec 18, 2010

So, as I said, the Glock does have "safety systems," even if it does not have a traditional safety switch. I'd rather have a thumb safety and dislike a heavy trigger pull, as with a double trigger or a double-action trigger. However, I'd carry one in the chamber unless the firearm had no reasonable safety system.

PrayingForWar · Dec 18, 2010

I'm a little more apprehensive about carrying loaded with my XD-45, so I don't do it regularly. I like my Springfield TRP 1911. I have no problem carrying it cocked and locked. That said I have on more than one occasion found the safety switched off after having to leave it under the seat since I have to go into places with CHL restrictions. S I always check it. Like Dreamer said though, if you keep your "booger hook" off the trigger you'll be fine.

I also have the luxury of a private range where I can practice draw, safety drop, and trigger pull.

SouthernBoy · Dec 18, 2010

Dreamer said:
No, actually the Glock has NO external safety switch at all, nor does it have a "decocker", nor is it truly DAO.

The Glock has what they call a "safe action trigger". What this means is that when a cop shoots himself in the ass or shoots an innocent bystander due to a ND, he will be safe from prosecution, sanction, or restriction. But when a citizen has an ND with a Glock, the system will spring into action to prosecute him to the fullest extent of the law.. </sarcasm>

Actually, I own and carry a Glock 36. I carried it for two months without a round in the tube, because I wasn't terribly comfortable with it in the Serpa, knowing what I know about Glocks (I worked for the DOJ in the DC area during the time when DC Metro PD was switching over from revolvers to Glocks, and they had over 100 NDs in the first few years of carrying the Glock). But now that I've owned it for several months, and put several hundred rounds through it, I feel safe with the firearm's "safety" mechanisms, the holster, and my abilities to handle it safely.

The key to handling a Glock with "one in the chamber" is training. If you keep your booger hook off the bang switch while drawing and re-holstering a Glock, it's just as safe as any other firearm. The grip angle and trigger geometry are SUBSTANTIALLY different from a 1911, and manipulating a Glock in and out of a holster requires a slight modification in trigger-finger position when using a Serpa. A few thousand presentation drills will imprint this difference on your muscle memory though...

All that said, I would NEVER leave a "hot" Glock in an unsecured location in my house. It's either on my hip, or unloaded and locked up. The functionality of the Glock makes it just TOO prone to ND in untrained hands to be trusted in unsupervised or untrained hands.

The Glock design is a DAO. The trigger performs two tasks and always two tasks to fire the gun (not talking about the "third" task of disabling the striker safety). It does not have automatic retry (reset) capability, a factor common with striker fired pistols. Pistols which operate like the Kel-Tec P11 do have retry capability because they are hammer fired and do not need the movement of the slide to reset the striker and trigger combo. One could almost call pistols like the Glock design a double action only hybrid for this reason.

SouthernBoy · Dec 18, 2010

Meatbag79 said:
I have to disagree for one reason. My carry gun is a Glock 23, and as such, has no safety. I love my gun; it's excellent... but if I had one chambered, there is a strong possibility of a mishap, and that's not something I can afford. I guess it depends on the holster as well. I would have less of a problem with it if my holster was composite or kydex or something, but I'm a big boy, and I pretty much rely on nylon holster for comfort and draw speed.

My primary carry gun is one of my Glock 23's and it is always carried in full battery; with a round in the chamber and ready to go. There are two very important factors working against someone who carries a semi-auto handgun without a chambered round.

Time. It takes time to chamber a round into a semi-auto handgun and that is time you may not wish to spend bringing your gun to the ready. In the heat of an extreme encounter, it's too easy to make a mistake, mess up racking the slide, and one could find themselves paying the price with their lives.

Injury. Suppose your assailant(s) manage to injure your support arm or hand and you cannot use that hand to work the slide of your Glock? What now? Yes there is a drill for this, but that is also a lot of time wasted that could otherwise be better spent defending yourself.

Your best friend is a holster designed to protect the gun's trigger and training. The chance of a Glock discharging without a deliberate action on the part of the owner is negligent almost to the point of impossibility. So have the proper equipment and train, train, train. Let your gun do what it was designed to do for you.

Kloutier · Dec 18, 2010

With my XDM I would have no issues with one in the tube. I trust my gun ,my holster, and my ability to make sure does not have a NG.

buster81 · Dec 18, 2010

If I were uncomfortable with a gun's design enough to be uncomfortable carrying it in a usable state, I would find a different gun.

JoeSparky · Dec 18, 2010

sultan62 said:
I'm not a big fan of the style of safety on the Glock. I got a Springfield XD45, and made sure to get one with the thumb safety for that reason. It also comes with the trigger safety (which I hate) and the beavertail safety, which I like. I really prefer having the thumb safety though.

Just my $0.02.

Glocks CAN be modified to have a thumb safety!

Why you should carry with a round in the chamber

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