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Thread: Possession of firearm in school zone charge Tomah

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    Possession of firearm in school zone charge Tomah

    "A Tomah High School student has been charged with ‘possession of firearm in school zone’ and with ‘carrying a concealed weapon’. Police said as a result of a search for illegal narcotics Thursday morning an unloaded .22-rifle was found in the trunk of 17-year old Raymond Pagel’s vehicle. Pagel is being charged as an adult. The search of his vehicle did not reveal illegal drugs or paraphernalia. Lieutenant Ron Waddell said, “unannounced K-9 searches will remain part of the Tomah School District and Tomah PD’s efforts to maintain drug-free schools.”

    http://www.wrjc.com/local-news/tomah...d-as-an-adult/

    Search of Tomah High School parking lot reveals unloaded rifle
    "A search of the Tomah High School Thursday for illegal narcotics resulted in discovering a rifle in the trunk of a student’s vehicle. Tomah Police Lieutenant Ron Waddell said, “at about 8:45am…Tomah PD in cooperation with Tomah School Administration, with the assistance from Sparta PD and the Wisconsin State Patrol, authorities were conducting a K-9 drug search when a bolt action .22 rifle was found along with other hunting related items. At no time was there a threat or concern for student or staff safety. The weapon was not loaded and there was no ammunition inside the vehicle.”

    http://www.wrjc.com/local-news/searc...nloaded-rifle/

    Well, he is being charged as an adult, it wasnt loaded, there were other hunting related items in the car... Hummm...

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    Regular Member oak1971's Avatar
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    Jack booted thugs. What a load of crap.
    In God I trust. Everyone else needs to keep your hands where I can see them.

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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Ridiculous!

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    Regular Member GlockRDH's Avatar
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    well, thats a pile of feces. Im sure everyone is safer now. Im sure if a search was done of the school cafeteria they would be able to confiscate a bunch of knives also...

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    Regular Member metalman383's Avatar
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    What was the reason for searching the trunk? Did the squirrel blood get the dog all excited?

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Whoa.... wait a minute. Was it not properly cased in the trunk of the car? That's the tidbit of info we need. Secondly, how was it within reach to be considered a concealed weapon? This sounds like a stretch. This may be the State V. Alloy revisitation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brass Magnet View Post
    Whoa.... wait a minute. Was it not properly cased in the trunk of the car? That's the tidbit of info we need. Secondly, how was it within reach to be considered a concealed weapon? This sounds like a stretch. This may be the State V. Alloy revisitation.
    It does not say... Kinda odd huh?

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    Regular Member Krusty's Avatar
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    I've got a feeling that this is going to be a VERY long thread. Cased or uncased? I bet he wasn't read his rights (as a juvenile) before his trunk was opened. And what kind of drug paraphernalia is a .22 rifle?? I'm sure there is MUCH more to come.
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    Regular Member paul@paul-fisher.com's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krusty View Post
    I've got a feeling that this is going to be a VERY long thread. Cased or uncased? I bet he wasn't read his rights (as a juvenile) before his trunk was opened. And what kind of drug paraphernalia is a .22 rifle?? I'm sure there is MUCH more to come.
    True, did a drug dog indicate a search was needed?

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    Under what probable cause did they have to open the trunk? It looks like the staties and the Tomah PD, Sheriff are going to be paying a little settlement.

    Being under 18 years of age does not limit protections under the bill of rights, Does it? I do not think so.

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    Regular Member metalman383's Avatar
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    Yes, there is a school zone violation, but the fact still remains we live in Wisconsin. I would bet that 70% of all high school boys are obsessed with hunting. My friends and I would go hunting, or fishing, at least twice a week after school. I think it is safe to say, that there was no malicious intent here. We as Americans need to bring back the use of common sense. This young man is facing adult felony charges, that he could pay for the rest of his life. I don't know who this is, but i can tell you what was probably thinking, "I'm going to Jim Bob's house after school, I will keep the gun in the trunk, rather than running home, and killing an hour of daylight, trunk will not be opened, no one will ever know". I'm sure I would have the same thought.

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    Campaign Veteran Flipper's Avatar
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    Local police department and the State Patrol were present, but where was the gun grabbing DNR? The kid could be done for as far as hunting with a firearm is concerned or being able to legally carry a firearm. Hope the gun was encased....

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    I don't believe it a gfsz violation if it was encased (we already know it was unloaded) and not in the building. Zero violations on the part if the kid. Major rights violation on the part of the leo. I hope this kid pursues this...open your check book Tomah.

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    Getting the word out on things like this is one (of several) good things about this forum. Thanks John and Mike.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
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    Regular Member Canard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Canard View Post
    I don't believe it a gfsz violation if it was encased (we already know it was unloaded) and not in the building. Zero violations on the part if the kid. Major rights violation on the part of the leo. I hope this kid pursues this...open your check book Tomah.
    http://law.justia.com/wisconsin/code...8/948.605.html

    Unloaded. Encased. In trunk. OK

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    Wasn't there a similar incident in Stevens Point (SPASH) a few years back. The school went after the student but the DA did not citing unloaded and encased. I'm trying to find the particulars

    But, this kind of thing is not infrequent:
    http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news...posts?page=114

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    I think those complaining about the rights violation of searching his trunk are missing an important bit related to school regulations currently. When you go to school they make you sign a paper giving them permission to search you or your things(including car) whenever they want if you're on school property or attending a school function. I don't know if that's the case in all schools, but it was in mine, and for that reason I always parked off school grounds and walked.(while I never had guns, my father is a smoker and would sometimes forget his smokes in the car when I borrowed it, being under 18 at the time a school district would just love to crucify me for that one).

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    School district conduct policy vs. criminal charge.
    When in danger you can dial 911 and hope for the police to arrive a few minutes later armed with guns.
    Why do police carry guns?

    The Joyce Foundation funded firearm control empire:
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...lFundingR1.png

    "Everything that we see is a shadow cast by that which we do not see." - Martin Luther King Jr.

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    The school district policy gives them the right to look, and once they can look, there's nothing stopping them from showing the cops.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mlutz View Post
    SNIP Tomah Police Lieutenant Ron Waddell said, “at about 8:45am…Tomah PD in cooperation with Tomah School Administration, with the assistance from Sparta PD and the Wisconsin State Patrol, authorities were conducting a K-9 drug search when a bolt action .22 rifle was found along with other hunting related items. At no time was there a threat or concern for student or staff safety. The weapon was not loaded and there was no ammunition inside the vehicle."
    I love it when the government just comes right out and undermines the entire justification for the law in the first place.

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    Once again a victim of "no tolerance" policy that conveinently takes the decision making based upon circumstances out of peoples hands. No tolerence is nothing but laziness by people who are too afraid of having to make a common sense decision based on circumstances. What do they feel they are going to accomplish by possibly ruining this young mans life before he's even had a chance to start it? Christ based upon the story i'd say it's pretty obvious that the boy is an avid hunter. It isn't like he was going around braggin he had a gun, or provoking poeple thinking he's a bad ass with a gun.
    What I really find unbelievable is how much this very issue has turned on it's head over the years. My grandfather and father both have told me stories of how in their youth they regularly hunted before school and would bring their rifle into school and put it in their locker for the day so they could go back out after school. My father's shop project in school was to refinish a ratty old rifle that he found in a barn. He brought it to shop class and fully refinished it along with his teachers guidance. The company I work for has a similar policy and I've flound it amusing that if they checked vehicles during hunting season they'd probably end up letting go of about a third of the workforce at the plant.

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Gatz View Post
    I think those complaining about the rights violation of searching his trunk are missing an important bit related to school regulations currently. When you go to school they make you sign a paper giving them permission to search you or your things(including car) whenever they want if you're on school property or attending a school function. I don't know if that's the case in all schools, but it was in mine, and for that reason I always parked off school grounds and walked.(while I never had guns, my father is a smoker and would sometimes forget his smokes in the car when I borrowed it, being under 18 at the time a school district would just love to crucify me for that one).
    If a emancipated minor can not enter into a contract is the prior written consent valid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockman View Post
    If a emancipated minor can not enter into a contract is the prior written consent valid?
    IIRC my parents had to sign that silly form too. Though I believe you would be correct about the issues if only the minor signs it. I am far from an expert on this, only relating my past experience and some of my own interpretation on the meaning of these documents.

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    Founder's Club Member Brass Magnet's Avatar
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    Heck, it wasn't long enough ago to talk about grandparents. People had guns in their vehicles all the time during hunting season when I was back in high school in the 90's. The school even had a special permission slip for your parents to sign if you wanted off for deer season. Kids that had off would come and drive through the parking lot at lunch to show off their deer and coyotes or whatever else they had shot.

    If what we've got now is pretty much the full story this is complete and utter bullpucky.
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    a neighboring school district of my home town in MI did a search the day after opening deer rifle season. everyone that was absent on opening day was searched. they got about 7 of them on GFSZ charges...

    same thing, since it is on school property, they can search what they want, when they want.

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