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Thread: Am I reading in too much about needing a recorder?

  1. #1
    coolfrmn
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    Am I reading in too much about needing a recorder?

    I have a question for you all out there in OC land about needing recorders...

    First I've been CC since 1997 when I lived in SC. (They went to shall issue in 96.) I moved to VA in 05 & have enjoyed the more freedoms that VA offers. I would love to OC, especially in the summer months for obvious reasons. I feel more comfortable CC, I'm just used to it. BUT, I feel that OC has great merrits also. In SC you can only OC when on your property/ business, hunting or fishing. So, outside of those confines, it's new to me.

    The more I read these posts, the more I read about people needing recorders. "Make sure you have a good recorder with you when you OC." etc. People asking about what kind of recorders they recomend. I read about all of the negative interactions with LE. I see the posts where people are video recording interactions with civilians & LE.

    It kind of has me a little nervous about OC, especially with out a recorder.

    Is it really that necesary to have a recorder? Do you get hassled that much by LEOs & haters?
    Last edited by coolfrmn; 12-19-2010 at 06:15 PM.

  2. #2
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    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...or-Skidmark-**

    But your last question could be the same as asking if you are put in a life threatening situation by another individual often enough to justify carrying a gun. There's a chance so you do it to be prepared. Same with voice recorders and being hassled by LEO. Most are informed of the law but you still want to be prepared in case you get one that isn't.
    Last edited by Curtis; 12-19-2010 at 06:21 PM.

  3. #3
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    Negative encounters related to OC are rare in VA these days. But, that does not mean they can never happen to you.

    Also, you can have a police encounter not related to OC, for example, a traffic stop fishing expedition pretexted on a burned out brake light or something. Plenty of traffic-stop reports in VA. Some good, some not so good.

    The reason for the recorder is to have denial-proof evidence in case the cop or or antagonist-citizen mis-represents what occurred.

    Its not so much that it happens often. Its more that if it happens, you want to be able to fight back later, and not be disadvantaged by the presumption of credibility people and courts give cops.

    Figure out where you will carry it; figure out how you would activate, and how to keep it from being noticeable to a cop. Then buy one that fits those parameters.

    Nobody has ever written on this forum, "Gee, I'm glad I had left my voice-recorder at home when that dirty, rotten, so-and-so cop was spouting off how..."

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    Or you could carry a court reporter with you everywhere you go.

    But I think Sony makes great voice recorders, and include the software and cord to extract the recording from the device to the computer. Audacity is a free audio editing program. You can use it to remove background noise or amplify speech if it sounds too low. If used in a legal proceeding, I would present the unedited copy alongside the cleaned up copy to show that no splicing was done.

  5. #5
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
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    Condom. Better to have and not need the need and not have.

  6. #6
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    Or you could carry a court reporter with you everywhere you go.

    But I think Sony makes great voice recorders, and include the software and cord to extract the recording from the device to the computer. Audacity is a free audio editing program. You can use it to remove background noise or amplify speech if it sounds too low. If used in a legal proceeding, I would present the unedited copy alongside the cleaned up copy to show that no splicing was done.
    As Citizen said, bad encounters are rare...but they do happen. The recorder is cheap insurance and tends to keep everyone polite.

    It's not just gun issues. Several months ago I videoed a police officer being dragged by a suspects car then thrown out.

    I was asked if I had gotten it and to be honest, I wasn't sure. It happened quickly. Turned out I had gotten it and the altercation after.

    The Officer talking to me wanted information I wasn't giving. Then he threatened to confiscate my camera. It's protected by both state and federal shield laws and that wasn't going to happen. The camera was going the whole time.

    If I had had to prove my side, I had video and audio.

    It's just another tool and voice recorders are inexpensive and easy to carry.

    You have family that are Police Officers I think. Unfortunately, not all police are upstanding and honest. That's not an insult, just a sad fact.

    Most of my immediate family are lawyers. Same is true for them. It's best to record the conversation and hold your wallet in both hands with some lawyers. I have video of a lawyer walking up to Grapeshot and saying "You can't carry that here. I know because I'm a lawyer". He scooted off when he saw the camera.

    I can think of one case right now where the OC'er would have saved a ton of problems if he had a recorder.
    Last edited by peter nap; 12-19-2010 at 07:24 PM.

  7. #7
    coolfrmn
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    I'm picking up what you guys are putting down.

    Now, could you point me in a direction on how you carry the recorder? I already look like a retard with my ears , I don't want to accentuate it with the Batman belt.

    Do we go all 007 and conceal the recorder & have a hidden mic run up our collar or OC that also?

  8. #8
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolfrmn View Post
    I'm picking up what you guys are putting down.

    Now, could you point me in a direction on how you carry the recorder? I already look like a retard with my ears , I don't want to accentuate it with the Batman belt.

    Do we go all 007 and conceal the recorder & have a hidden mic run up our collar or OC that also?
    The best way is attach a lanyard and carry it around your neck.

    BTW..
    Notice how friendly the police are in this...even though they didn't want to be.


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    I quit carrying my recorder last year. I got tired of having to go out of my way to carry something extra just because I wanted to exercise a right given to me in the Constitution. I might need it someday and I'll kick myself for not having it, but oh well.

  10. #10
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    I didn't know the Fair had a band!

    Nice video.

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    Its disappointing that you have had negative experiences with LE, and when a good one may need help, those negative experiences cause reservations. Its not a dig at you, please understand that. You can't treat someone with total contempt and not expect animosity back. Perhaps in due time, there are some in LE that can help restore some confidence and trust.

    I'm a practitioner of community policing. Asking for cooperation goes a long way. Giving the citizen a business card with your name and an open invite to get in contact with me has served me well. Some have used the card, some haven't. LE in a nutshell, is about customer service. Not everyone is a crook, the vast majority aren't. Not everyone who commits a violation needs to go to jail or get a ticket.

    Be constitutional. Be professional. Be polite. Be humble. The dignity and honor of the profession demands it.

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    I didn't know the Fair had a band!

    Nice video.
    Actually, they did!
    Just not that band. That's from a composer that puts together music for my video's.

    Thanks for the compliment, but it's terrible. Native out of that camera is H264 which is lossy. I got in a hurry and edited the edits several times and destroyed the image quality.
    No Oscars for me

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Actually, they did!
    Just not that band. That's from a composer that puts together music for my video's.

    Thanks for the compliment, but it's terrible. Native out of that camera is H264 which is lossy. I got in a hurry and edited the edits several times and destroyed the image quality.
    No Oscars for me
    You have your own composer?

    I was referring more to the content than the image quality.

    The only content to which I could really object was that OCer on the left in that first group. God! That hat! Kahki with a blue shirt? Can't you all do something about him?

  14. #14
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    Its disappointing that you have had negative experiences with LE, and when a good one may need help, those negative experiences cause reservations. Its not a dig at you, please understand that. You can't treat someone with total contempt and not expect animosity back. Perhaps in due time, there are some in LE that can help restore some confidence and trust.

    I'm a practitioner of community policing. Asking for cooperation goes a long way. Giving the citizen a business card with your name and an open invite to get in contact with me has served me well. Some have used the card, some haven't. LE in a nutshell, is about customer service. Not everyone is a crook, the vast majority aren't. Not everyone who commits a violation needs to go to jail or get a ticket.

    Be constitutional. Be professional. Be polite. Be humble. The dignity and honor of the profession demands it.
    If that was aimed at me Palerider, you don't know anything about me. I don't treat the profession with contempt. I do treat certain officers with contempt and always have. I also treat some Gun Activists with contempt. You get what you ask for.

    I didn't just fall off the tater truck. I know when and where there will be problems and am prepared for them. A small percent of the profession create 99% of the bad press. The departments that police themselves, don't have to worry about it.

  15. #15
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You have your own composer?

    I was referring more to the content than the image quality.

    The only content to which I could really object was that OCer on the left in that first group. God! That hat! Kahki with a blue shirt? Can't you all do something about him?
    Yep. He's in Idaho of all places. Has a lot of talent and sings as well. He did the theme song for "Finding Balance" which comes out on DVD in about 6 weeks. I think I have a few of the test clips floating around.

    I don't know who that fellow in the hat is!

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    If that was aimed at me Palerider, you don't know anything about me. I don't treat the profession with contempt. I do treat certain officers with contempt and always have. I also treat some Gun Activists with contempt. You get what you ask for.

    I didn't just fall off the tater truck. I know when and where there will be problems and am prepared for them. A small percent of the profession create 99% of the bad press. The departments that police themselves, don't have to worry about it.
    I concur, I don't know anything about you. I also meant that if you were treated with contempt, a negative reaction is justifiable and completely understandable. I did not mean that you treat them with contempt. I apologize if that was unclear on my part.

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolfrmn View Post
    Is it really that necesary to have a recorder?
    It is needed 0% until it is needed 100%.

    When I OC, recorder goes ON.. not on standby, ON REC. If you have any interaction at all.. or not.. you will have a digital record of the event and the time line. If you had a leo encounter (GOOD or bad) if you had a defensive shooting.. if you had an anti make a comment or try and provoke you. If you got in an accident and as soon as you got out the other guy says "omg, are you ok? I did not see you, it is ALL MY FAULT", if you point at someone with your finger and say "YOU were not there" when they try and recount a story that they think they know the details of... If you had a REAL self defense situation and they guy mugs you or stabs you or robs you.. you have it all on record (pun intended)

    They are less than $50.00
    Carry On.

    Ed

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  18. #18
    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palerider116 View Post
    I concur, I don't know anything about you. I also meant that if you were treated with contempt, a negative reaction is justifiable and completely understandable. I did not mean that you treat them with contempt. I apologize if that was unclear on my part.
    No need to apologize. It wasn't taken as an insult.

  19. #19
    coolfrmn
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    You have family that are Police Officers I think. Unfortunately, not all police are upstanding and honest. That's not an insult, just a sad fact.
    Yepper.. My Dad, Grandfather, Great Grandfather, Aunt & Cousin. ( All on the same side of fam). It was my brother, cousin & myself that went rogue & joined the fire department. Along with ride alongs as a cadet in high school & 18 1/2 years as a FF working along side of them. So yes, I'm pretty comfortable & trusting of them.

    No insult taken. I know it only takes one bad apple to ruin your day, year, life. & I'm not down with being a prison b*itch. I'm too fragile.

    I've been following the Skidmark story. I was brought aware of it on the Maryland Shooters Forum.

    Thanks everyone for the info.
    Last edited by coolfrmn; 12-19-2010 at 10:00 PM.

  20. #20
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    About a month ago, I got two blocks from my house and realized I had forgotten my recorder. I kept driving and thought about whether it would be worth it to backtrack and get my recorder. It was. Had I not gone back an got it, I would not have a recording of my second unlawful detention by MPD officers. Four of them surrounded me and provided me a full hour of interesting audio--including repeated examples of their ignorance of the law. They went scrambling for the codes they have in their cruisers repeatedly.

    If you forget it, go back an get it.

  21. #21
    coolfrmn
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    @palerider116.
    Or you could carry a court reporter with you everywhere you go.
    No thanks. For the same reason I carry a weapon.... Police are too cumbersome to carry with me everywhere.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Citizen View Post
    You have your own composer?

    I was referring more to the content than the image quality.

    The only content to which I could really object was that OCer on the left in that first group. God! That hat! Kahki with a blue shirt? Can't you all do something about him?
    Didn't know you were color blind too - my shirt was gray. Was dressed for my audience. It was a VCDL shirt and I had a purdy handgun too.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Didn't know you were color blind too - my shirt was gray. Was dressed for my audience.
    Har, har, har. Too bad you're not as funny as the comedian who used the arm and hand positions we see you using in the video.
    Last edited by Citizen; 12-19-2010 at 11:01 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    SNIP...my shirt was gray. Was dressed for my audience. It was a VCDL shirt and I had a purdy handgun too.
    OK, we'll blame the "blue" on Nap's video or my monitor.

    But, the purdy gun? How could anybody tell with that hat? Khaki? And, its not like it goes any better with a gray shirt. Sheesh. Nap needs a wardrobe supervisor as well as a composer if he's gonna continue.


  25. #25
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator ed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coolfrmn View Post
    I carry a weapon
    Not me. I carry a Kimber or a GUN or a Firearm or a 1911 or a pistol.. but NEVER a "W" word. I want those two extra jurors on my SIDE. I have not carried a "W" since I was in the Marine Corps. :-)

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?50320
    Carry On.

    Ed

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